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Battle for Middle Earth 2

1.08 and 2.02 merge

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# 1MuRk3d Mar 24 2015, 14:26 PM
I posted this on the ROTWK 2.02 forums as well. Just trying to get an evaluation from both sides.

I am curious why there is no attempt to merge the ROTWK community with that of bfme2? I understand that there are some game play differences but couldn't a lot of those be implemented into a working environment within the ROTWK model including angmar into the playable races with new units? This would create an environment where more game could be played simultaneously with a combined community. There is already enough division as is with EA patches and that of the community, why create more division between players of a game that could be combined into one if you take the best of both games?

Ultimately looking for a way where there is a bigger community. Not trying to create division just the opposite.

This post has been edited by MuRk3d: Mar 24 2015, 14:41 PM

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# 2Feanor Mar 24 2015, 14:33 PM
BFME2 and RotWK play vastly different. Even though it's free to get, people will always prefer 'their game'. I don't mind, I play either game but I have a preference for RotWK. It's already hard to balance one game, let alone merging and balancing two different ones.

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# 3MuRk3d Mar 24 2015, 14:37 PM
but yet you would have 2x the staff working toward a common goal, and twice the play testers to help with balance.

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# 4Val` Mar 24 2015, 15:41 PM
I guess to the untrained eye the games dont seem very far apart. But they are, 202 uses the BFME2 1.04 Counter System. 1.08 uses the BFME2 1.05 Counter System. Might not sound like much but that was the biggest change to the game in its history. Me and many others hate the old counter system because it's weak, like Starcraft. The 105 system has hard counters, pikes rape cav, cav rape archers n soldiers, etc etc. From my time in pre 1.05 days I would never go back to that system, hate it. No way to get accross this boundary, ofc there are many in 202 that hate the 105 system. Our way of balancing is totally different to 202 aswell, we use specific scalars and so forth to even out bad matchups, 202 has only ever used Global techniques which can never reach OCD level of all matchups being good. That was always something I hated in early BTP days, most changes were Global in nature which caused more harm than good.


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# 5MuRk3d Mar 24 2015, 16:03 PM
I honestly do not see the problem here: ex. with the cav vs. pikes reference that you made, lets say that a unit of rohirrum (strongest cav in either 2.02 or 1.08) charges a set of pikes, with the trample return they get instantly killed, now if the cav hits s before they trample the pikes they may win (depending on pikes) however it will not be without heavy cost to the calvary (note this is with the best cav in the game which is twice as much as the pikes). If you look at the changes on 2.02 the scalar for specific units can be adjusted to compensate. From what I can see this only encourages a higher lvl of micro and differentiates the good players from the great players as well as gives an opportunity for things like calvary starts which provides more dynamic openings. That being said a lot of the changes that have been made in 2.02 that have made there more room for micro, such as giving trolls trample damage which largely does not affect their damage to swords and archers as they have almost no time before they stop, however if you don't stop your trolls before they hit pikes they die almost instantly. Basically there are scalars in 2.02, and they can be manipulated for particular units, i don't know if this has always been the case or if it came with 2.01 but, I know it is there now (at least as far as i can tell). Please explain to me if I am wrong in this regard.

This post has been edited by MuRk3d: Mar 24 2015, 16:11 PM

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# 6Val` Mar 24 2015, 16:11 PM
Indeed but one can still feel the strong element of pre 1.05 in 202. Personal preference really.


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# 7MuRk3d Mar 24 2015, 16:20 PM
which is why I am not trying to convert you to 2.02, but rather try to reach a middle ground

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# 8Feanor Mar 24 2015, 16:44 PM
What you are essentially doing is creating yet again a different patch for people to play and thus dividing people even more. You have the best intentions, but it doesn't work that way.

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# 9Val` Mar 24 2015, 16:51 PM
Activity is good on either game so there's really no need anyway.


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# 10Feanor Mar 24 2015, 18:03 PM
Correct, maybe you could consider bundling forces to create other maps? There's currently a small project in the RotWK section to make some more balanced maps and those are beneficial for both games.

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# 11Thorin Mar 24 2015, 18:39 PM
QUOTE(Feanor @ Mar 24 2015, 17:44 PM) *

What you are essentially doing is creating yet again a different patch for people to play and thus dividing people even more. You have the best intentions, but it doesn't work that way.


Very good point indeed, Feanor. This is most likely what will happen, MuRk3d. Your idea is not necessarily bad, but it's probably too idealistic. You will never get everyone from both games to play one single version. By creating a version that has elements from both games, even if you somehow manage to select the right elements, you will create a third game. You will not unite the community, but divide it even more. There is a chance it would work, but I wouldn't risk it.

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# 12Phoenix Mar 24 2015, 19:02 PM
My understanding also is that BFME2's community is split between 1.00, 1.06 and 1.08. Even if all the 1.08 players suddenly decided to go for 2.02 instead we would still not have united communities.

One option is for both sections to cross-promote their events to give players the chance to experience both games and both patches. This can improve everyone's understanding of the differences between the two options, but ultimately it wouldn't cause one side to merge with the other.

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# 13bushit Mar 24 2015, 20:25 PM
B/c the games are different

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# 14Forgotten_squonk Apr 7 2015, 15:01 PM
i know my point is dumb and feelings about that are primal (primitive or w/e), but i'll never play rotwk. I just don't like it. Val' and some others understand why they don't want to play rotwk and can argument their position, but most players are like me - we just don't like anything about rotwk. There is no way to change it buddy...

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# 15Xelenos Apr 7 2015, 22:26 PM
when i can take down a angmar fort with two ranger and fire arrow, sorry but i don't feel like rotwk interest me, same as forgotten, i just don't like it too, and it's less active

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# 16SilverBane Apr 8 2015, 12:31 PM
a rotwk with bfme2 counter system and strategies would be cool

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# 17StrayHeart Apr 9 2015, 19:41 PM
QUOTE(Forgotten_squonk @ Apr 7 2015, 16:01 PM) *

but most players are like me - we just don't like anything about rotwk.

+1

QUOTE(Xelenos @ Apr 7 2015, 23:26 PM) *

i just don't like it too, and it's less active

+1

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# 18Andy San Apr 9 2015, 20:28 PM
less active? ohmy.gif we have more activity imo, we just dont play cw dat much atm.

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# 19RanDoM'L0L Apr 9 2015, 22:15 PM
The activity is kinda floating in between both games imo. In average it is more or less the same, cw ex or included.

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# 20StrayHeart Apr 11 2015, 21:22 PM
QUOTE(Andy^ @ Apr 9 2015, 21:28 PM) *

less active? ohmy.gif we have more activity imo, we just dont play cw dat much atm.

less active. any time I switch to rotwk I see maybe two 2.02 games hosted and 80% of time they are 3v3/4v4 which I never play, so I find nothing to myself in this game. Most of hosts are some 1.3.7.1 shit which I don't even know what it is xd

bfm2 many 1.06 games hosted and many 1.08 too recently. Surely more 1v1/2v2s then rotwk. Usually large friend list to ask any1 for a game, so yeah.

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