Dawn of War 2

Reduce ASM's cost by 10 power
Move Melta upgrade down to T1
Increase Melta upgrade cost to 100 requisition, 30 power
Remove Melta's Bomb's detonation timer on stick (ie instant explode when contact w/ target is made after throw)
Lower Melta Bomb's energy cost from 40 to 30
Melta upgrade also increases ASM health and damage by 10%; increases jump range to 65.

Vanilla ASM ("VASM") cost = 500 requisition, 40 power
Upgraded ASM ("UASM") cost = 600 requisition, 70 power

I think this change would solve a WHOLE bunch of problems w/ ASMs (and the SM v Eldar matchup in general):
-VASMs 10 power cheaper, making them available slightly earlier to combat platforms/Rangers, and easier to spam "tit for tat" if your enemy is Ranger spamming. Also reduces reinforcement power cost.
-UASMs have a little more health to stay in the thick of things a tad longer after jumping (also scales w/ newly buffed T1.5 melee squad upgrades' health boosts!)
-UASMs do a little bit more damage in order to more quickly dispatch their target squad after jumping
-UASMs have a longer jump radius, allowing them to jump out of the FoW onto Rangers to lessen the likelihood of receiving Ranger fire ASAP
-Melta bomb in T1 helps to defend against vehicle rush if heavily invested into T1.5 (early falcon or walker)
-Improved Melta Bomb's instant detonation makes it easier to snare targets quickly while they are in range of your upgraded HBD squad (which will help the HBD squad TONS as a vehicle soft counter), and helps to differentiate it from the Warp Spider's Haywire grenade
-Improved Melta Bomb's decreased energy cost allows ASMs to jump -> melta at level 1

Basically, Rangers will be a bit more manageable since ASMs can jump from the FoW, will do a little more damage, and survive a bit longer with the new upgrade. The improved Melta being available in T1 with instant detonate and being able to jump -> melta will make it easier for SM to counter a quick vehicle, since instant detonate melta and jump -> melta will help make the HBD much more effective of a vehicular soft counter.

I think this would solve a ton of problems in the current SM meta game. I'd rather see Rangers keep their current edge rather than get cut back to their previous status -- I like seeing individually powerful and dangerous units. Last patch Rangers seemed so "meh" even though they were actually pretty decent in the right hands, but now they're actually dangerous, and I like it.

I figure the ASM feels a bit lackluster, and as the goto counter to the Ranger squad it feels right to buff the ASM to balance out Rangers, since Rangers aren't really OP'd in any other engagement atm outside of Eldar v SM, and ASMs feel kinda shitty so they have room to be buffed. Dropping an improved Melta upgrade down to T1 as the ASM T1.5 upgrade and tying all ASM buffs into that upgrade while decreasing their power cost to 40 power sounds about right to me.

This post has been edited by fischbs: Oct 31 2009, 12:57 PM

Well that's one way of doing it, and I quite like it tbh.

Still think the easier solution would be to remove the +25% sniper with some other small change to ASMs, but hey.

1 - all races have only 1 unit at t1, that can damage vechickle and u are suggesting to add another unit with such powerfull upgrade to t1.
2 - melta bombs, that giving health and damage? Mb they should be renamed to Cocaine bombs?
3 - u forget about other factions and 2 asm with such boms will be too powerfull against any vechickle, u dont even need to be t2 to kill t3 vechickle.

ASMs already have plenty of HP for a t1 unit, it would skew the balance vs other races. The sarge adds plenty of HP and DPS in t2.

I mean that is my problem with it, it's massive AV for tier 1, maybe make the melta do less damage in this proposal too fisch.

The ASM sarge is the same HP and 40 DPS + merciless strike, still not a great deal for 100/25..........

This post has been edited by SOLAR1S: Oct 31 2009, 13:47 PM

Adding another squad member (400 hp, and more damage) + power sword and merciless strike is already amazing vs nids, somewhat vs orks, and kick ass vs other SM, as well as allowing them to survive longer to ranged fire from eldar. Merciless strike owns gaunts, and with another 400 HP 2 squads of gaunts can't do much to ASMs that are backed up (even more so if they have an apo). The power sword will rape anything that isn't an AG warrior, and even then it will be a fairly close match. Also they are MS 70, so that fancy power sword will be triggering more special attacks against things that aren't banshees, or have use your choppaz.
At 1600 HP, that's more than my god damn thornback carnifex, or most other level one units with a sarge, or actually I think it is the highest hmm.... and since a SK only does 150 per hit in melee, you can tie up my SK quite well so he's worthless, a normal t2 fex will take 2 hits to kill an ASM members, same with a TB. Not that I'd recommend running into a melee fex, but ASMs have a shit ton of HP with the sarge.

Compared the the slugga nob for 75/20 who noly gives 285 hp, no heavy armor or a shoota boy nob that's the same cose and also only gives 285 hp. Meanwhile the banshee exarch adds 200 HP for 85/15 and vehicle damage, with a slight speed aura.

Yeah I'd say ASM sarges are good and slightly above most other sergeants.

This post has been edited by Lord Lokgar: Oct 31 2009, 14:02 PM

Why not just take away the 25% buff for Rangers...

When he's as vulnerable as any other ASM he's the mother of all reinforcements....

Just like every other sarge.

Well no, if a sarge has more HP than the other members he is more likely to survive ranged fire and is more survivable in melee assuming the engine doesn't unluckily single him out to attacked by more models than anyone else. Most other leaders have more HP than their squad.

Barley. 400 HP, and power sword and a kick ass ability is worth 100/25. Not to mention heavy armor means he will survive more ranged fire than other sarges. The only sarge that might not be worth his cost is the warlock because he's too good for (75/15 I think?).

ASM just need a new ability instead of their lame flash grenade. Even if they started with this grenade instead of having it as part of the upgrade. With something to add to their anti-range role such as a smoke grenade would be great. I'd love to see if making their jump-charge a knock-down attack would be too OP or if it would increase their disruptive capabilities.

But again use the such function ala http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index...48690&st=40 This topic isn't even off the first forum page yet.

hey hey, do you remember about Apo? What would he become along with those ASM buffs? I don't have questions, really. SM would have most awesome AV in game. Melta's deal incredible dmg - yes, haywire may stun completely vehicle but melta bomb deals 200 dmg - 350 with rear armor hit which would be incredibly easy with their amount of hp, jump range and instant effect.

just give goddamn snipe resistance aura. end of story.

This post has been edited by sacredl: Oct 31 2009, 14:33 PM

ASM Buff? XD

Are you crazy? With apoth, they are still ******* great.
Plz dont make me laugh, they don't need buff, you just need micro..

SM players = Best Whinners Ever.

..and with the other commanders? Apoth IMHO is a bit OP with it's 'healing off the bat'.

Yes, because all SM players should play Apothecary. It says so on the manual.

Why complicate things this much?

Taking away the 25% ranger buff and upping ASM DPS to stormboy levels would be enough and bring them closer to what they cost.

Then again, removing the "perfectly balanced" ranger buff would have the whole dowsanc cry and whine so that will never be done by relic.

In retrospect, if its logical and needed = it wont be done by relic!
By now even the densest fool should have learned that basic rule or Dow2 balance.

Reduce their HP and take away their heavy armor if you are going to buff them to stormboy DPS.

...they don't need stormboy levels of DPS, that would be going from ~80 to ~135 which would make them the best melee troop by a mile. An increase in DPS is warranted but not by nearly 50% as you propose.



QQ.

True, that would be to much if they still kept their armour.
Still, upping DPS and removing the ranger buff = simple fix.