Dark Crusade

As it stands right now, I (by no means a good player) can beat an insane computer with the necrons easily, but have great difficulty winning with the other races (maybe not the tao, b/c the krootox is op, another topic).

I think the entire race/concept of the necrons is unbalenced. The tradeoff between the overpowered necron units is supposedly that they move slowly, thus they can't establish map control. I completely agree that they can't establish map control...however I'd argue that the necrons don't really need it.

As a necron player I find that I only need 4-5 points capped throughout the entire game, which is usually around my base and easily defendable. At this point I have 100% and maxed infantry cap, and decently high veh cap. A couple wraiths can go around uncapping their points (a wraith can kill a L2 LP), while i build up the necron econ, which relies entirely on generators.

Therefore, inablity to take map control doesn't hurt the necrons, and to keep up with the necron economy an enemy player NEEDS to cap and control map control just to keep up.

As it stands right now a early rush by the necrons is hard to beat, and a mid-game attack by the necrons is nearly unstoppable. All the necron player needs to do is hold a couple points and defend with their high-hp warriors while teching. Late game necron masses are difficult to beat, as with the NL's ability and Spiders the army comes back in battles, assuming the enemy was able to kill a significant amount of your troops (I know the insane computer certainly doesn't....). Each time this happens, you can go over your cap, its quite easy to get at least 25/20, sometimes even 35/20, which quickly means that the supposed 3 cap of necron warriors actually means 2 cap.

L3 Necron Warriors can go toe to toe with Terminators in my experience, and given the cap on terminators and all other units, I think necrons is the only race that can get an unlimited amount of powerful units in the last tier (except the tao, of course, who are also unbalenced with their unlimited Krootox).

While necrons are by no means unbeatable, I believe that between two equally skilled players, one playing necron will beat one playing SM, or Chaos, or IG, etc (again, lets not count Tao). The difference isn't huge, it isn't I WIN automatically, but there will be a difference in win-ratios.

Discussion?

I don't completely agree with you...I have found that a good Tau player will almost always beat an equally skilled Necron player...Even without crootox, Fire Warriors are killer....I also think the necrons are extremely vulnerable to a rush...If the enemy rushes with a decent force they can get to you before you have more than 1 Necron warrior squad or commander...even if their original rush fails the necrons will still lose time, and the enemy will have a large upper hand...

the only gripe about necrons i have is that their warriors cost 0... no matter HOW much you decimate their economy, they can always have units, not just any old scouts either.. heavy INF style units without having to recover. take that for what you will

also, their commander is fairly powerful as in having warp and powerful special abilities. imo, one of the better commanders for disrupting while your army takes a force

that whole going over the squad cap thing is probabaly the most imbalancing late game aspect of the necrons. they could very easily code it so that squads over the cap dont ressurect

not that any of this (except maybe the 3rd point) is really crippling, but like ashmizen said, it can make a difference

EDIT: i think another thing that seems somewhat imbalanced is the necrons LP1 and 2 feel like they have more hp than normal, and their disruption ability make it almost impossible for t1 stuff to take one out (or maybe ive been playing tau too long)

This post has been edited by mdigibou: Oct 20 2006, 07:32 AM

An RTS game should never ever have any units, especially tier 1, that are free. It just spells balance disaster.

Really the free warriors don't seem to have that much of an adverse effect on the game...They take an extremely long time to build even if their building speed modifier is up to 60%..Also, when they come out there is only 3 warriors, and they reinforce very slowly...The Ressurect thing can be a little tricky...The units do come back with very low HP, and it takes a lot of resources to get to the commanders mass ressurect ability....You must remember that all Necron units take up 3 or more population, and it is highly unlikely that they are going to have many Listening Posts...So basically it is uncommon for a necron player to get an infantry cap over about 21...

I agree, the cost isn't the problem. 'Free' is not free, considering the build time. To make it an effective fighting force, you have to spend a good amount of energy reenforcing.

Right now, I just feel that to beat the necrons, you need to pull off a very successful harrass early game, or you have no chance, and this usually requires you to be much better than the necron player. Due to the econ ramp of the necrons, if you don't harras and destroy their gens, they can usually be in a tier above you while fielding an army that can stand equally in a fight.

Yeah, I try to rush the Necrons, you have to be really fast at rushing because the more time you spend, the more necron warriors he gets then later-game he will attack you with like a lord and about 30+ warriors and you're dead. It's kind of a rush or lose the game thing...

Necrons are the "I win button" against the IG imho. I try to do the most powerful IG rush against them and they still kill me In this case, IG will always fail against Necrons in any rush they do, and if you tech, the Necrons will out-number you, so this is quite explainable of why I think the Necrons are an "I win button"

This post has been edited by Jedi DeuX™: Oct 21 2006, 21:12 PM

An I win button is a little too strong imo...It could be against IG, but against anybody else you still must play well to win vs. good players...

IG is surprisingly good in Dark Crusade. GM with priests attached run too fast. My poor Necron warriors can't catch up

Ah NM, I can own Necrons anyday

Actually, this topic is NOT suppose to be in the strategy forums according to the pinned rules of the Necron strat forum I'll let you get away with this one, but I'll move it to the Dark Crusade Discussion forums instead of moving this topic to out staff forums to laugh at it

Moved to DC Disc.

Necrons are still up for debate ... but many believe they're more imba than tau. Xerxes and I are in that category.

Well the Tau's Krootox are to be nerfed iirc?

I give u comment when game comes in europe. Though I got my question marks on there eco system. It needs no map control and there max is I though like 145+ witch is big.

This post has been edited by I L0rD_HakSe I: Oct 23 2006, 16:55 PM

what about flayed ones lol? they seem a bit extreme to me... just drop a few behind his forces while your warriors are shooting them from the front. Flayed ones are very OP in the games I have seen.

exactly. from what I have seen is that necrons can just teleport b. So they dont loose units when they fall b wich disturbs me. This way they have troops that hold the harassers off while techning to better units.Although this is what I have seen so far of DC

In my opinion they are totally overpowered.

its not that each individual thing by itself is OP, just all of these things combined into one race definately make it a much greater force to the same level of commander

deepstrike flayed ones + res orb + teleporting commander (with sweet abilities) + free heavy inf + no waypoint eco + invincible daemon unit + builders with loads of hp + wraith kill animation = just a tad above the bell curve

not saying other races dont have OP elements, just that the ones on the necrons are much more pronounced because no matter what BO they use, they are always using some form of OP element. see?

Well, most races have some overpowered units but maintain a reasonable level of balance overall. Necrons an are entire army of dodgy decisions that make a very scary whole when played well.

thank you for summarizing my post haxx0rized