Company of Heroes 2

COH2 needs some improvements

Do u guys agree that relic needs to implement these changes?
57.45% (27)
yes
23.40% (11)
no
19.15% (9)
Some changes, but not all

Total Votes: 47
Guests cannot vote 
Reply to this topic Start new topic
# 1HassanCOH Apr 16 2013, 18:27 PM
I have been recently playing the COH2 closed beta; i kno ur not supposeed to talk about it due NDA but u still can talk about the UI since the official outlook of it has already been released. I will also be talkin about the gameplay improvements a little bit. The UI really needs to be changed the unit icons showing each of the units in the army and their status needs to be repositioned to from the top right corner to probably to the bottom either left or right. I constantly had to look up on my monitor inorder to see the units. Second thing would be the font for the resources it really needs to be more prominent; i had to constanly look up and down while navigating through the resources and my unit status; so frustrating; plus it needs to standout like COH1. The unit pics no longer look so epic like in COH1 side shots of the units and the dark background gave sense that the geman units were proud which in COH2 dissappears. The pics now look like profile pics or mugshots like in jail. The soviets should also have also unit pics expressive of their pride. Other then that the UI looks to be fine except for that the building icons which u can press to access the buildings are not so visualant as before; which also needs to be fixed.

Problems with the gameplay:
You still cannot setup units retreat paths which is really annoying when an enemy has camped near ur base with scout cars and PGs just so he can kill ur retreating squads.

The units have glithcy movements especially when walkin they the 2 units in squad while walkin bump in to eachother and become one unit.

The gernade timer txt and the vehicle damage indicator txt is no longer as prominent as COH1; the damage indicator txt also appears to be staying for a shorter time than COH1.

The tones or soundtrack at the background seem to be not as intense and suspensefull as COH1; the soundtracks are really are not fighting or war like.

The Main menu soundtracks should also sound like soviet fighting spirit operas.

The speeches or dialogue for each army also dont seem to express emotion and feeling like this dialogue of grenadiers copied from COH1
COH1: we will capture it, Or die trying!!!
COH2: we will capture it, or die trying
the Dialogues dont seem to change as expressing the state of battle; like fighting and idle unit speeches dont show any difference in the tone like COH1

the Sector points also no longer as prominent as COH1

the colour scheme for the allies in when playing 2v2,3v3 or 4v4 are not so prominent as COH1 which had different colors;In Coh2 these colours are just shades of blue which makes it quite difficult in determing which building are urs and ur allies; While playing i accidently kept on my pressing my allies hq thinking it was mine lol; It was because i couldn't tell the difference between the shades of blue.

Plus the high command dialouges also dont express feeling of pride or cockiness like they used to in COH1 especially for the soviets.


Otherwise, relic has done a great job in changing the game, i really like the true sight system; In order to make the game even more aw-inspiring, epic and easy to manage gameplay-wise, relic really needs to implement these changes.
Do u guys agree with these changes?

This post has been edited by Herz: Apr 26 2013, 23:04 PM

Posts: 85

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 2ten_am Apr 17 2013, 18:03 PM
Well i Certainly agree with some points, I didn't look at color what so ever but the people don't seem so motivated in this game no. I like the Main Theme Soundtrack but i game i do not really even notice them. what i do like is the fact that you now get like pop ups when you can see an enemy unit. this certainly helps you but out dates some tactics. Overall its still a beta and they still have time to change a lot. you should post this up onto the Original CoH Forums of the Official site and see if there are developers that might have some answers if they are gonna change the points you named.
I still think your pretty much right with most things, but i don't think they are gonna change the voices now. that probably took a lot of time to record those.

Good Critic points but the graphics are insane like truly they did a great job.
1 thing i do found annoying is that corpses will be laying there for like the whole game but its kinda realisic tongue.gif



Posts: 87

Game: Company of Heroes 2

+
# 3OTTOMANEMPEROR Apr 17 2013, 22:47 PM
I agree to most of the points...

I will make it easy...

- To many colours... the game looks like a kids movie...
- To many information on the screen but nevertheless, u cant realize all the informations..
- Units are to small...
- The picture style Of the commando points, looks like a cheap strategy game...
- Why changed the rank system Of lvls ?? looked so nice on CoH1...
- If this is the last graphick design, than its very poor, i expectet really a bit more..
- Arty is to strong, on both sides, strategy,flank, defense exhibitions making no sense, couse arty killes everything...

I hope they can fix the points, so it can get a epic game like Coh1...

Posts: 150

+
# 4DatMag Apr 21 2013, 20:35 PM
In response to your complaints about dialogue and music, its not supposed to be more upbeat and warlike. That is part of the atmosphere. Nobody is happy that there fighting this war in -40 degree weather with certainty of death, and the music and dialogue reflects that. Its supposed to be a more sad, more of a "sacrifices must be made" kind of feel to the game.

Posts: 20

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 5DMOTA Apr 22 2013, 17:09 PM
The game is fantanstic. I didn't like the blizzard system at first. But now i got it, it adds a whole new aspect to strategy. The game pace is just perfect. You can actually stop and think what to do next. The maps are so complex and way more detailed than in COH 1. I'm loving it so far.

Posts: 7

+
# 6Zsoci Apr 22 2013, 19:38 PM
Yeah, i like too this NEW Coh. Im pretty sure, without the new gamesystem, this is not a second coh, only a expansion, and we need evolution. Coh2 is fine!!!

Posts: 318

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 7WickySoldier Apr 23 2013, 02:37 AM
Only thing that is driving me mad at the moment is the AI of my own units.
My dudes stand really close together, pretty much touching, even in cover. The issue is that a mortar round will kill them all.
I dont know if its just me but my units are slightly weaker then before. and im not a total noob, even when you do the right thing with cover and flanks you still will loose a whole unit, full heatlh, to a mortar round. Vet 2 dudes should have a bit more surviability.

And its sad when you have a 6man conscript unit and they all die in a flash. Are they trying to potray their lack of experience and training to make them nearly useless? I dont mind using a mass of poorly trained dudes but I think they should make them cheaper or build faster.
They are good with oorah and flanking. with 2 or 3 units but I think just 1 mortar shouldnt be able to destroy the momentum of an attack.

Posts: 53

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 8HassanCOH Apr 23 2013, 18:26 PM
QUOTE(DatMag @ Apr 21 2013, 20:35 PM) *

In response to your complaints about dialogue and music, its not supposed to be more upbeat and warlike. That is part of the atmosphere. Nobody is happy that there fighting this war in -40 degree weather with certainty of death, and the music and dialogue reflects that. Its supposed to be a more sad, more of a "sacrifices must be made" kind of feel to the game.


Srry about that i do like the soviet main theme music at the main menu but i dont like the music during the gameplay, like coh1 if u noticed, has its gameplay music change according to the tone at the heat of battle. Like WEHR has its suspicious uncertain sound at the start then it changes to more intense sound as engagements start to happen in COH1.
But apparently this doesnt seem to happen in COH2.

Posts: 85

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 9HassanCOH Apr 23 2013, 18:29 PM
QUOTE(WickySoldier @ Apr 23 2013, 02:37 AM) *

Only thing that is driving me mad at the moment is the AI of my own units.
My dudes stand really close together, pretty much touching, even in cover. The issue is that a mortar round will kill them all.
I dont know if its just me but my units are slightly weaker then before. and im not a total noob, even when you do the right thing with cover and flanks you still will loose a whole unit, full heatlh, to a mortar round. Vet 2 dudes should have a bit more surviability.

And its sad when you have a 6man conscript unit and they all die in a flash. Are they trying to potray their lack of experience and training to make them nearly useless? I dont mind using a mass of poorly trained dudes but I think they should make them cheaper or build faster.
They are good with oorah and flanking. with 2 or 3 units but I think just 1 mortar shouldnt be able to destroy the momentum of an attack.

Yea the mortar is really op'd in COH2 and the unit movements are not smooth as in COH1 but i believe this is just the beta they are gonna make it more balanced and fix the movements in the final.

Posts: 85

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 10HassanCOH Apr 23 2013, 18:39 PM
QUOTE(Ficaa @ Apr 17 2013, 18:03 PM) *

Well i Certainly agree with some points, I didn't look at color what so ever but the people don't seem so motivated in this game no. I like the Main Theme Soundtrack but i game i do not really even notice them. what i do like is the fact that you now get like pop ups when you can see an enemy unit. this certainly helps you but out dates some tactics. Overall its still a beta and they still have time to change a lot. you should post this up onto the Original CoH Forums of the Official site and see if there are developers that might have some answers if they are gonna change the points you named.
I still think your pretty much right with most things, but i don't think they are gonna change the voices now. that probably took a lot of time to record those.

Good Critic points but the graphics are insane like truly they did a great job.
1 thing i do found annoying is that corpses will be laying there for like the whole game but its kinda realisic tongue.gif

Man i loved the Voices in COH1. They reflected the tone or mood of the battle plus they had funny quotes that units said specially the volks squad. They copied qoutes in COH2 but no the funny ones unfortunately.

Posts: 85

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 11jtal Apr 23 2013, 21:44 PM
CoH2 is a sad sad joke compared to CoH1. I reached level 14 PE/Ami/Wehr in CoH 1 (Brits are a joke....probably Relics worst art direction mistake in history next to Space Marine). I have been playing CoH2 since the alpha (but I haven't played it within the last couple of weeks from the latest patch).

Here is a list of CoH2 failures:


-No infantry combat tracers. There was something aesthetically pleasing about seeing two infantry squads trading tracer fire in a skirmish.

-Very weak doctrine titles. Someone once said that the Wehr doctrines were designed to illicit an emotion (Terror, Defensive, Blitzkrieg) where as the Americans were designed to illicit purpose (Infantry, Armor, Airborne). Now its all "Festung support commander" with only one linear tree. No left/right hand table. Which I feel is a missed opportunity to make the game even more unique.

-The art direction of units. The units in CoH1 had a toy-like feel to them. Very bright in colours, as if little plasticine men on a miniature map. Now its..... nothing unique. A piss poor copy of Men of War in graphics. With sectors not being as well defined as they were in CoH1.

-Lack of asymmetry. It felt as if the Amis were a versatile and mobile army vs a methodical and well-supported army. This feels like two clone armies fighting each other, both have rocket artillery, both carry heavy tanks; aside from a few token changes in the early tiers of the game both sides just feel too similar in later tiers.

-Mirror armies: I'm hoping automatch won't allow this because there is nothing more disgusting than having one of these type of tactic-heavy games to have mirror matches.


-Snipers don't vault into cover. There was real skill in using snipers. You had to make sure you knew where you were placing them due to the habit of the AI vaulting to cover if you placed him close to a bush or anything similar.

-Level of causalities are extremely high for no real purpose. I understand that the Eastern Front was THE World War 2, with the largest air and land battles in known history (a Panther is a medium tank in CoH2; in CoH1 its the heaviest non-doctrine tank for both PE and Wehr), and the rest was just peripheral fighting, but still, the amount of infantry that I lose in a game is triple that of CoH1. There seems to be no operational support in this game such as medical bunkers to reconstitute squads (sure there are healing bunkers but that's not the same as bleeding costs through attrition). An attrition like battle is next to impossible (which if I remembered correctly was a Soviet doctrine at times).

-Static defenses: do they even have a use in this game? Has anyone actually seen them bare any fruit like that of CoH1? So far they seem very useless. Even the teller mines seem to be just a minor nuisance to vehicles. Mines used to be that golden ticket that stopped a shock-vehicle from pushing you off the field....

No specialty: Remember how Wehr could buy up veterancy and Amis had a upkeep structure that significantly reduced all upkeep? Where are those? I'm sorry to say but they are fundamental.....


This game needs a lot of patches before it reaches the level of quality we're expecting from CoH1. I'm glad they removed squads coming in from the closest edge of the map (that was disgusting in Alpha, a unit would just come out from the side and you can hold the furthermost corner away from your home sector with relative ease) but they have long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long way to go before it reaches the shadows of CoH1.

But alas it feels all this is to make money selling you new units and commanders, pay to win strategy games have always failed...

This post has been edited by jtal: Apr 23 2013, 22:00 PM

Posts: 6

+
# 12THEBLITZ6794 Apr 23 2013, 22:40 PM
QUOTE(jtal @ Apr 23 2013, 16:44 PM) *

CoH2 is a sad sad joke compared to CoH1. I reached level 14 PE/Ami/Wehr in CoH 1 (Brits are a joke....probably Relics worst art direction mistake in history next to Space Marine). I have been playing CoH2 since the alpha (but I haven't played it within the last couple of weeks from the latest patch).

Here is a list of CoH2 failures:
-No infantry combat tracers. There was something aesthetically pleasing about seeing two infantry squads trading tracer fire in a skirmish.

-Very weak doctrine titles. Someone once said that the Wehr doctrines were designed to illicit an emotion (Terror, Defensive, Blitzkrieg) where as the Americans were designed to illicit purpose (Infantry, Armor, Airborne). Now its all "Festung support commander" with only one linear tree. No left/right hand table. Which I feel is a missed opportunity to make the game even more unique.

-The art direction of units. The units in CoH1 had a toy-like feel to them. Very bright in colours, as if little plasticine men on a miniature map. Now its..... nothing unique. A piss poor copy of Men of War in graphics. With sectors not being as well defined as they were in CoH1.

-Lack of asymmetry. It felt as if the Amis were a versatile and mobile army vs a methodical and well-supported army. This feels like two clone armies fighting each other, both have rocket artillery, both carry heavy tanks; aside from a few token changes in the early tiers of the game both sides just feel too similar in later tiers.

-Mirror armies: I'm hoping automatch won't allow this because there is nothing more disgusting than having one of these type of tactic-heavy games to have mirror matches.
-Snipers don't vault into cover. There was real skill in using snipers. You had to make sure you knew where you were placing them due to the habit of the AI vaulting to cover if you placed him close to a bush or anything similar.

-Level of causalities are extremely high for no real purpose. I understand that the Eastern Front was THE World War 2, with the largest air and land battles in known history (a Panther is a medium tank in CoH2; in CoH1 its the heaviest non-doctrine tank for both PE and Wehr), and the rest was just peripheral fighting, but still, the amount of infantry that I lose in a game is triple that of CoH1. There seems to be no operational support in this game such as medical bunkers to reconstitute squads (sure there are healing bunkers but that's not the same as bleeding costs through attrition). An attrition like battle is next to impossible (which if I remembered correctly was a Soviet doctrine at times).

-Static defenses: do they even have a use in this game? Has anyone actually seen them bare any fruit like that of CoH1? So far they seem very useless. Even the teller mines seem to be just a minor nuisance to vehicles. Mines used to be that golden ticket that stopped a shock-vehicle from pushing you off the field....

No specialty: Remember how Wehr could buy up veterancy and Amis had a upkeep structure that significantly reduced all upkeep? Where are those? I'm sorry to say but they are fundamental.....
This game needs a lot of patches before it reaches the level of quality we're expecting from CoH1. I'm glad they removed squads coming in from the closest edge of the map (that was disgusting in Alpha, a unit would just come out from the side and you can hold the furthermost corner away from your home sector with relative ease) but they have long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long way to go before it reaches the shadows of CoH1.

But alas it feels all this is to make money selling you new units and commanders, pay to win strategy games have always failed...

Im probably cancelling my preorder

Posts: 793

Game: None

+
# 13Red_Terror Apr 24 2013, 13:32 PM
I agree, so far CoH2 is but a shadow of CoH1. I still think they can improve by a good margin, all I hope is they don't sell op things in DLCs.

Posts: 301

Game: None

+
# 14HassanCOH Apr 24 2013, 14:59 PM
QUOTE(jtal @ Apr 23 2013, 21:44 PM) *

CoH2 is a sad sad joke compared to CoH1. I reached level 14 PE/Ami/Wehr in CoH 1 (Brits are a joke....probably Relics worst art direction mistake in history next to Space Marine). I have been playing CoH2 since the alpha (but I haven't played it within the last couple of weeks from the latest patch).

Here is a list of CoH2 failures:
-No infantry combat tracers. There was something aesthetically pleasing about seeing two infantry squads trading tracer fire in a skirmish.

-Very weak doctrine titles. Someone once said that the Wehr doctrines were designed to illicit an emotion (Terror, Defensive, Blitzkrieg) where as the Americans were designed to illicit purpose (Infantry, Armor, Airborne). Now its all "Festung support commander" with only one linear tree. No left/right hand table. Which I feel is a missed opportunity to make the game even more unique.

-The art direction of units. The units in CoH1 had a toy-like feel to them. Very bright in colours, as if little plasticine men on a miniature map. Now its..... nothing unique. A piss poor copy of Men of War in graphics. With sectors not being as well defined as they were in CoH1.

-Lack of asymmetry. It felt as if the Amis were a versatile and mobile army vs a methodical and well-supported army. This feels like two clone armies fighting each other, both have rocket artillery, both carry heavy tanks; aside from a few token changes in the early tiers of the game both sides just feel too similar in later tiers.

-Mirror armies: I'm hoping automatch won't allow this because there is nothing more disgusting than having one of these type of tactic-heavy games to have mirror matches.
-Snipers don't vault into cover. There was real skill in using snipers. You had to make sure you knew where you were placing them due to the habit of the AI vaulting to cover if you placed him close to a bush or anything similar.

-Level of causalities are extremely high for no real purpose. I understand that the Eastern Front was THE World War 2, with the largest air and land battles in known history (a Panther is a medium tank in CoH2; in CoH1 its the heaviest non-doctrine tank for both PE and Wehr), and the rest was just peripheral fighting, but still, the amount of infantry that I lose in a game is triple that of CoH1. There seems to be no operational support in this game such as medical bunkers to reconstitute squads (sure there are healing bunkers but that's not the same as bleeding costs through attrition). An attrition like battle is next to impossible (which if I remembered correctly was a Soviet doctrine at times).

-Static defenses: do they even have a use in this game? Has anyone actually seen them bare any fruit like that of CoH1? So far they seem very useless. Even the teller mines seem to be just a minor nuisance to vehicles. Mines used to be that golden ticket that stopped a shock-vehicle from pushing you off the field....

No specialty: Remember how Wehr could buy up veterancy and Amis had a upkeep structure that significantly reduced all upkeep? Where are those? I'm sorry to say but they are fundamental.....
This game needs a lot of patches before it reaches the level of quality we're expecting from CoH1. I'm glad they removed squads coming in from the closest edge of the map (that was disgusting in Alpha, a unit would just come out from the side and you can hold the furthermost corner away from your home sector with relative ease) but they have long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long way to go before it reaches the shadows of CoH1.

But alas it feels all this is to make money selling you new units and commanders, pay to win strategy games have always failed...


I do agree with some of ur points yet i also disagree with some.
Some points i agree:

the Tracer Fire was really nice actually it visually appealing

I also agree with the fact that SOVIETS need more static Defenses since they were only able to stop the germans by very strong defences and then a powerful counter attack;As shown in history in the Battle of Kursk and Battle of Moscow and COH2 apparently does no justice on this fact. They Give Germans more defensive structures which clearly in history was not the case; The germans were mostly a offensive army on the eastern front. They were masters in offence as shown in Battle of Kursk where Guderian was able to breakthrough the soviets defensive lines after lines. In terms of defences which were mostly mobile not in depth mostly delay the enemy not to stop him mostly Tactical retreats or hold the ground for some time while soviets had depth in defence and thier main objective was holding the ground at all cost.

I also agree with the Doctrines which really need more improvements more options and yea the doctorines in COH1 really had a feel to them which really need to be incorporated into COH2.

YEa i hope the dont have mirror matches because they are really boring.

Points I disagree:

The GRAPHICS are not BAD they are way better than COH1 which really was like cartoons in COH2 the men actually look like men instead of Cartoons. The Balistic Effects are also really nice way better then COH which were a lot more exaggerated like crew firin up in to the air like rockets when a tank gets destroyed. I specially like the Camo jackets for Grenadier troops.

I also disagree with the fact that the Armies are both identical. The Germans are more stationary and defensive to hold the ground at the start while Soviets are more offensive to cap ground and take as much land from germans. The tanks are also different. Soviet tanks are way cheaper but not as powerful interms of firepower and accuracy while the
german tanks are more expensive and are more accurate and have more firepower. The Soviets also dont have powerful heavy tanks as gemrans. German tigers and elefants are harder to penetrate by soviet At guns while the IS-2 (equal to tiger ) can almost always be penetrated by german at guns. The soviets also have more artillery which can be really anoying because all germans have are stuka rockets which dont even fire as many rockets as katyushka and plus soviet have art everywhere SU-76 has it thier at gun even have the option to barrage.

No speciality: I like how units gain veterancy than buying them which was really annoying in COH1 how u just bought veterancy and suddenly ur units were supermen and then u can just spam these superhumans which had the same manpower cost as simple units. But i hate the veterancy indicator for the germans it shouldn't be star it should be some thing else STAR represents Communism and bolshviekism

Casualties are supposed to be high its the EASTERN FRONT.

I also like how the snipers now have to be managed properly and are easier to kill than COH1 where they instantly CAMMOed on the road with no cover and SNIPER SPAM was a really big problem in COH1. Snipers really didnt require so much micro in COH1 u just need to keep a distance while in COH2 the snipers cant Cammo unless in cover which makes them more micro intensive since they have a higher chance of getting killed by enemy inf and mortars.




Posts: 85

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 15vodkarush Apr 24 2013, 17:06 PM
QUOTE(jtal @ Apr 23 2013, 22:44 PM) *

CoH2 is a sad sad joke compared to CoH1. I reached level 14 PE/Ami/Wehr in CoH 1 (Brits are a joke....probably Relics worst art direction mistake in history next to Space Marine). I have been playing CoH2 since the alpha (but I haven't played it within the last couple of weeks from the latest patch).

Here is a list of CoH2 failures:
-No infantry combat tracers. There was something aesthetically pleasing about seeing two infantry squads trading tracer fire in a skirmish.

-Very weak doctrine titles. Someone once said that the Wehr doctrines were designed to illicit an emotion (Terror, Defensive, Blitzkrieg) where as the Americans were designed to illicit purpose (Infantry, Armor, Airborne). Now its all "Festung support commander" with only one linear tree. No left/right hand table. Which I feel is a missed opportunity to make the game even more unique.

-The art direction of units. The units in CoH1 had a toy-like feel to them. Very bright in colours, as if little plasticine men on a miniature map. Now its..... nothing unique. A piss poor copy of Men of War in graphics. With sectors not being as well defined as they were in CoH1.

-Lack of asymmetry. It felt as if the Amis were a versatile and mobile army vs a methodical and well-supported army. This feels like two clone armies fighting each other, both have rocket artillery, both carry heavy tanks; aside from a few token changes in the early tiers of the game both sides just feel too similar in later tiers.

-Mirror armies: I'm hoping automatch won't allow this because there is nothing more disgusting than having one of these type of tactic-heavy games to have mirror matches.
-Snipers don't vault into cover. There was real skill in using snipers. You had to make sure you knew where you were placing them due to the habit of the AI vaulting to cover if you placed him close to a bush or anything similar.

-Level of causalities are extremely high for no real purpose. I understand that the Eastern Front was THE World War 2, with the largest air and land battles in known history (a Panther is a medium tank in CoH2; in CoH1 its the heaviest non-doctrine tank for both PE and Wehr), and the rest was just peripheral fighting, but still, the amount of infantry that I lose in a game is triple that of CoH1. There seems to be no operational support in this game such as medical bunkers to reconstitute squads (sure there are healing bunkers but that's not the same as bleeding costs through attrition). An attrition like battle is next to impossible (which if I remembered correctly was a Soviet doctrine at times).

-Static defenses: do they even have a use in this game? Has anyone actually seen them bare any fruit like that of CoH1? So far they seem very useless. Even the teller mines seem to be just a minor nuisance to vehicles. Mines used to be that golden ticket that stopped a shock-vehicle from pushing you off the field....

No specialty: Remember how Wehr could buy up veterancy and Amis had a upkeep structure that significantly reduced all upkeep? Where are those? I'm sorry to say but they are fundamental.....
This game needs a lot of patches before it reaches the level of quality we're expecting from CoH1. I'm glad they removed squads coming in from the closest edge of the map (that was disgusting in Alpha, a unit would just come out from the side and you can hold the furthermost corner away from your home sector with relative ease) but they have long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long way to go before it reaches the shadows of CoH1.

But alas it feels all this is to make money selling you new units and commanders, pay to win strategy games have always failed...


I agree, COH1 is a great game because factions are clearly different (and balanced) in terms of economy, veterancy and gamestyle. COH2 factions are too similar, with a worse docrine sistem. At the moment COH1 is still better than COH2.



The problem with snipers is that if you give them a full camo ability you need a t1 countersniper like jeep or bike, but in the eastern front with snow and blizzard it's hard to think that. In my opinion the new sniper sistem is ok.

This post has been merged by djw2104: Apr 24 2013, 19:34 PM

Posts: 36

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 16jtal Apr 24 2013, 19:06 PM
QUOTE(HassanCOH @ Apr 24 2013, 14:59 PM) *


No speciality: I like how units gain veterancy than buying them which was really annoying in COH1 how u just bought veterancy and suddenly ur units were supermen and then u can just spam these superhumans which had the same manpower cost as simple units. But i hate the veterancy indicator for the germans it shouldn't be star it should be some thing else STAR represents Communism and bolshviekism

Casualties are supposed to be high its the EASTERN FRONT.

I also like how the snipers now have to be managed properly and are easier to kill than COH1 where they instantly CAMMOed on the road with no cover and SNIPER SPAM was a really big problem in COH1. Snipers really didnt require so much micro in COH1 u just need to keep a distance while in COH2 the snipers cant Cammo unless in cover which makes them more micro intensive since they have a higher chance of getting killed by enemy inf and mortars.


Veterancy was nothing compared to the upkeep advantage the Americans had. You could, 9/10 times, out-reinforce a Wehr player if you had your upkeep structure fully upgraded. As Wehr you find yourself always burning through your manpower just to maintain the sectors you hold in the late game; if you didn't go armor or heavy auxiliary support (such as weapon teams and crews) you were going to get out-maneuvered by what seemed to be an endless supply of US reinforcements always attacking the fringes of your area of influence.

As for sniper spam, I don't recall it ever being an issue in CoH1, having 3 snipers is almost 1000+ man power. A well placed artillery barrage ends all sniper spam, either through the death of the snipers or through fear of losing them and an instant retreat by the opposing player. The sniper now seems like a first/second tier unit only (in CoH2). In the late game, with armor and artillery I feel his use is nothing more than a scout at best. In CoH1 your sniper had use from T1 to T4; partly due to the fact he can instant cloak. But to micro a sniper AND control the direction and movement of your armor, artillery, and generic infantry seems like the game is telling me "after T2, stop using snipers". You would spend a good 15-30 seconds of your attention using the sniper in CoH2 to do 40-60 manpower damage to your enemy in the mid-late game.... that is time not-well-spent when tanks and artillery are raking in kills by the dozens.




Though I admit (with little proof by what I see in-game) there is some asymmetry in how a group of conscripts behave together, there seems to be some kind of script or flag that says the more you group together, the more likely a bunch of them will die to an explosion.

Example, 6 conscripts step on a mine, 3 die. 12 conscripts step on a mine, you lose 4 from one squad and 3 from the other squad. 18 conscripts? You lose a whole squad, and 3 men from the other two squads. As if the more you group, the higher the percentage of loses; a dissuasion to grouping conscripts in blobs. Can anyone confirm this? Grenadiers and PGs alike do not seem to fall prey to this problem.


QUOTE(vodkarush @ Apr 24 2013, 17:10 PM) *

The problem with snipers is that if you give them a full camo ability you need a t1 countersniper like jeep or bike, but in the eastern front with snow and blizzard it's hard to think that. In my opinion the new sniper sistem is ok.



And there lies your most fundamental problem yet, the snow/winter effects. Yes they are cool in concept, yes they add another degree of consideration in maneuvers, yes they are something to be considered....HOWEVER I believe its way too early to add such new features like weather. Especially if you're going to make it an optional thing on maps, with some maps being in the spring/summer and others being in the dead of winter. Perhaps in a future expansion after Relic has squared out the key issues of making a larger scale strategy game and yet trying to keep the unique tactical features of CoH1. Snow and blizzard right now seems to force the map to be mostly armor-heavy, should the snow/blizzard storms be random that is 100% unfair in an "e-sport" environment. There is already enough play in how units survive explosions and barrages, we don't need any more "lucky" moments by having storms be random. If they are not random, I assure you in due time someone will find a very abusive build-order that takes advantage of a storm timing in which paralyzes the enemy all the time.





I cannot get behind the art direction that CoH2 took. It just feels too generic in terms of presentation. CoH1 stood out, showing it to friends who have never played strategy games and they can see units carrying the "bazooka thing" are anti-tank soldiers, and the ones pushing the "rocket thing" are artillery soldiers. This....unless you're some WW2 buff, and the lack of cartoon-isk style... makes it very hard to present. It looks too "boring" if I may say.

The way I saw CoH1, it presented itself as two commanders, one of an adaptable invasion force (Amis) and the other of a reactionary defensive force (Wehr) who both commanders have set up temporary commands in farm houses (flags and all). They send out regular patrols only to find out the sector they have been charged with has enemy van guard units. You both discover each other and escalate to skirmishing, realizing that the enemy is in force (should both sides survive the initial early game skirmishes) you escalate and formulate a basic plan of attack/defense and from there the escalation grows until it is no longer a skirmish or a minor engagement but a pitched battle in which division (the division you're part of) is granting you access to Tigers, Rangers, and strafing runs.

You were not two massive armies waiting to smash heads against each other but two commanders, charged with a small sector in which your area of operation has moved from a quite patrol to an active portion of the front fielding divisions most deadliest and expensive assets.



All-in-all I honestly think if they just released a stand-alone expansion for CoH1, call it the Far East and add the Soviets and Imperial Japan (which also fought each other) you would have a much more appealing product than what CoH2 is trying to be (trying too hard in the wrong areas). PE, Wehr and Imperial Japan vs Brits, America and Soviets... is that not perfect just reading it?


The lack of an early scouting vehicle also is not welcomed either.....

That's my 2 cents... probably more than I should have said. I posted something similar on the CoH2 portion of the Sega forums but fan boys from every angle raped my post with blind devotion (insinuating that I was after a SC2 clone....somehow...)

Posts: 6

+
# 17HassanCOH Apr 24 2013, 20:39 PM
QUOTE(jtal @ Apr 24 2013, 19:06 PM) *

Veterancy was nothing compared to the upkeep advantage the Americans had. You could, 9/10 times, out-reinforce a Wehr player if you had your upkeep structure fully upgraded. As Wehr you find yourself always burning through your manpower just to maintain the sectors you hold in the late game; if you didn't go armor or heavy auxiliary support (such as weapon teams and crews) you were going to get out-maneuvered by what seemed to be an endless supply of US reinforcements always attacking the fringes of your area of influence.

As for sniper spam, I don't recall it ever being an issue in CoH1, having 3 snipers is almost 1000+ man power. A well placed artillery barrage ends all sniper spam, either through the death of the snipers or through fear of losing them and an instant retreat by the opposing player. The sniper now seems like a first/second tier unit only (in CoH2). In the late game, with armor and artillery I feel his use is nothing more than a scout at best. In CoH1 your sniper had use from T1 to T4; partly due to the fact he can instant cloak. But to micro a sniper AND control the direction and movement of your armor, artillery, and generic infantry seems like the game is telling me "after T2, stop using snipers". You would spend a good 15-30 seconds of your attention using the sniper in CoH2 to do 40-60 manpower damage to your enemy in the mid-late game.... that is time not-well-spent when tanks and artillery are raking in kills by the dozens.
Though I admit (with little proof by what I see in-game) there is some asymmetry in how a group of conscripts behave together, there seems to be some kind of script or flag that says the more you group together, the more likely a bunch of them will die to an explosion.

Example, 6 conscripts step on a mine, 3 die. 12 conscripts step on a mine, you lose 4 from one squad and 3 from the other squad. 18 conscripts? You lose a whole squad, and 3 men from the other two squads. As if the more you group, the higher the percentage of loses; a dissuasion to grouping conscripts in blobs. Can anyone confirm this? Grenadiers and PGs alike do not seem to fall prey to this problem.
And there lies your most fundamental problem yet, the snow/winter effects. Yes they are cool in concept, yes they add another degree of consideration in maneuvers, yes they are something to be considered....HOWEVER I believe its way too early to add such new features like weather. Especially if you're going to make it an optional thing on maps, with some maps being in the spring/summer and others being in the dead of winter. Perhaps in a future expansion after Relic has squared out the key issues of making a larger scale strategy game and yet trying to keep the unique tactical features of CoH1. Snow and blizzard right now seems to force the map to be mostly armor-heavy, should the snow/blizzard storms be random that is 100% unfair in an "e-sport" environment. There is already enough play in how units survive explosions and barrages, we don't need any more "lucky" moments by having storms be random. If they are not random, I assure you in due time someone will find a very abusive build-order that takes advantage of a storm timing in which paralyzes the enemy all the time.
I cannot get behind the art direction that CoH2 took. It just feels too generic in terms of presentation. CoH1 stood out, showing it to friends who have never played strategy games and they can see units carrying the "bazooka thing" are anti-tank soldiers, and the ones pushing the "rocket thing" are artillery soldiers. This....unless you're some WW2 buff, and the lack of cartoon-isk style... makes it very hard to present. It looks too "boring" if I may say.

The way I saw CoH1, it presented itself as two commanders, one of an adaptable invasion force (Amis) and the other of a reactionary defensive force (Wehr) who both commanders have set up temporary commands in farm houses (flags and all). They send out regular patrols only to find out the sector they have been charged with has enemy van guard units. You both discover each other and escalate to skirmishing, realizing that the enemy is in force (should both sides survive the initial early game skirmishes) you escalate and formulate a basic plan of attack/defense and from there the escalation grows until it is no longer a skirmish or a minor engagement but a pitched battle in which division (the division you're part of) is granting you access to Tigers, Rangers, and strafing runs.

You were not two massive armies waiting to smash heads against each other but two commanders, charged with a small sector in which your area of operation has moved from a quite patrol to an active portion of the front fielding divisions most deadliest and expensive assets.
All-in-all I honestly think if they just released a stand-alone expansion for CoH1, call it the Far East and add the Soviets and Imperial Japan (which also fought each other) you would have a much more appealing product than what CoH2 is trying to be (trying too hard in the wrong areas). PE, Wehr and Imperial Japan vs Brits, America and Soviets... is that not perfect just reading it?
The lack of an early scouting vehicle also is not welcomed either.....

That's my 2 cents... probably more than I should have said. I posted something similar on the CoH2 portion of the Sega forums but fan boys from every angle raped my post with blind devotion (insinuating that I was after a SC2 clone....somehow...)

Well microed snipers were always a pain in the ass in COH1 specially their instant camo so unrealistic. Snipers can still be used late game if managed properly in COH2. COH2 in my opinion is more realistic interms of physics and combat than COH1. COH1 had a lot of realism issues: units cannot vault over basic structures such as fences, instant cloak of snipers, rocket propelled vehicle crews, vehicles defy the inertia motion newtons laws, men just stand in the face of flamethrowers like terminators taking no effect, Grenade takes years to explode,Strafing run killing like one man in a concentrated area of elite german inf; unlimited supply of tanks and men, comin from base buildings. INf squads have sight radius over and behind buildings.

If they implement scout cars ( i dont know if it will improve the game play in COH2 since truesight really doesnt allow it much ) Scout cars will only be able to see wat is below or equal to their hieght they wont be able to see behind a building while being infront of it like COH1.

The imperial Japanese army fought in places which suited their style of battle close combat melee fighting with their baynots and katanas(sammurai swords), Plus their fighting was mostly defensive where the enemy attacked and they defended. Against US they wont be able to effectively shermans since they most relied on thier heavy gun batteries placed in stationary mountain caves (as in the case of iwo-jima). In battles they hid first and then once they had the enemy close enough they used rifles and even charged with swords. I dont know how they would implement this style of battle in COH in general. They would have to change every army facilitate melee.

i told u already that i do i agree with u on the fact the doctrines are poorly designed in COH2.

The Art looks weird to u because its new and ur not used to it.

Posts: 85

Game: Company of Heroes

+
# 18jtal Apr 24 2013, 21:46 PM
QUOTE(HassanCOH @ Apr 24 2013, 20:39 PM) *

Well microed snipers were always a pain in the ass in COH1 specially their instant camo so unrealistic. Snipers can still be used late game if managed properly in COH2. COH2 in my opinion is more realistic interms of physics and combat than COH1. COH1 had a lot of realism issues: units cannot vault over basic structures such as fences, instant cloak of snipers, rocket propelled vehicle crews, vehicles defy the inertia motion newtons laws, men just stand in the face of flamethrowers like terminators taking no effect, Grenade takes years to explode,Strafing run killing like one man in a concentrated area of elite german inf; unlimited supply of tanks and men, comin from base buildings. INf squads have sight radius over and behind buildings.



The Art looks weird to u because its new and ur not used to it.



I don't play games for realism. Last I checked when a military division gets a bunch of new hardware (say...boxes of Molotovs) they aren't INSTANT STAR-TREK-STYLE TELEPORTED READY FOR USE IN INFANTRY HANDS THE EXACT SECOND ITS RESEARCH. You talk of realism.......... but seriously....that argument can be nullified by any global instantly activated upgrade. It's not like infantry have to run to the home-sector THEN they get their weapons...no no no they get them automatically...like in real life right? I mean come on... all these men with all their gunpowder and what I'm sure is at the minimum basic survival skills and not ONE of those motherfuckers can bring wood together to start a fire in a blizzard? No...only the engineer, through some special masters degree in fire making, can build a fire pyre...realism right? Want to see me build a fire now? I'm not even Soviet soldier....shieeeet

The art is not weird. It looks like Men of War, I'm saying its NOT UNIQUE. That's the difference. Art style of CoH1 = Unique, Art style of CoH2 = Look how we copied Men of War

Realism in the wrong places.... that's what it is. The Panzer Elite PIV tank didn't have a lock-down option, but it was a good choice to have and kept things balanced. I WOULD TRADE REALISM FOR BALANCE I would trade realism for FUN. And so far, CoH1 is FUN, CoH2 is "Ctrl-A all the things". Shit I could play every game in the tactical map in its unfinished mode, that's how useless all these realism aspects are to the games fundamental mechanics. Where is Sepha and CharlesDarwin when you need them.... perhaps one day those two will come back to the scene of CoH2 and show us its true faults when played at 250+ APM.

Quick edit:
You want realism, go play Sudden Strike 2 or Men of War, you'll see that even in THAT respect CoH2 can't hold a candle to it. When I can't tell my infantry to go prone and stay prone, then don't tell me CoH2 is realistic. If the AI can't shatter through morale...don't tell me CoH2 is realistic. I'm sure desertion was a problem for the Soviets or our buddy Stalin wouldn't have had his NKVD working overtime

I won't deny vaulting is great! Finally I don't have to run infantry around a knee high fence, yes. But for one improvement I must deal with 20 degradations of the game...the unrealistic parts of CoH1 were for sheer balance alone which I think is lost on the Relic developers now who seem to be money hungry selling intelligence bulletins and commanders and units and camo.

So where does CoH2 stand now? Realistic? Not even...



This post has been edited by jtal: Apr 24 2013, 22:03 PM

Posts: 6

+
# 19Gorb Apr 25 2013, 08:31 AM
I stopped reading after you said the art direction in Space Marine was bad.

Posts: 2,348

Game: Dawn of War 2

+
# 20antiphaagic Apr 25 2013, 15:26 PM
One small question.

Would it have been better for a poll with the options Yes, No, Maybe/Possibly?

It is easier to gauge by votes than having to trawl through the posts; just a thought.

Posts: 6

+

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)