Dawn of War 2

Orks have WAAGH, so the more stuff they have the better the buff. I think the Orks are pretty spot on fluffy.

Space Marines are all high health low number units, so they have the endurance factor going as their fluffiness, no problems here.

Eldar have fleet of foot (even though it's attached to squad upgrades) and go for the whole "glass cannon" feeling and do it well enough, imo.

But what about Tyranids? They feel kind of frumpy; unfinished. They need a "thing" and they don't really have it. Synapse was supposed to be their "thing" but 1.4 gave squads T1.5 upgrades and such to deviate from synapse, so it's no longer as as much of a "MUST HAVE" as it used to be.

I think Termagant/Hormagaunt squads should recieve extra squad members per each tier upgrade -- 2 extra when at tier 2, 4 extra total when at tier 3 -- a tier 2 Hormagaunt squad would have 10 members, and a tier 3 Hormagaunt squad would have 12. Synapse should get basic improvements with each tier as well!

Personally I think this would be a great addition. With more gaunts in each squad you also lower the reinforcement costs, which is a big problem with gaunts late game (they die too much and cost you too much cash). This makes them a bit more suicidal friendly too, since you don't have to pay as much.

Anyways, this is pretty much a fluffiness-feeling-of-each-army general discussion thread. That's my two cents, whats yours? I'm pretty happy overall with fluff feeling but I think the Tyranids are lacking just a little bit because Synapse has seem to have taken a back seat with 1.4, which really hurts their fluff feeling. Feels like we're only a few basic improvements away from winning back Tyranid fluff though.

This post has been edited by fischbs: Nov 6 2009, 19:06 PM

Tacs getting owned by guardians. What the hell is this?

This post has been edited by H4yd3n: Nov 6 2009, 19:10 PM

1 Tac > 2 GU
1 Flamer Tac > 3 GU, 4 if really blobbed up

Also, I think FoF should be standard for all Eldar non-platform units but health should be decreased in exchange.

As for fischbs' suggestions, giving Guant squads extra units at higher tiers isn't going to help at all. There's too much AoE available later so the extra squad members only mean higher reinforcement costs. I really like improved synapse benefits at later tiers though.

This post has been edited by hellic: Nov 6 2009, 19:56 PM

But the reinforcement costs would be reduced since the squad size was increased, so they'd be more efficient with AoE present and have enough members to shrug a few losses before closing into combat, making them a bit more useful as well.

This post has been edited by fischbs: Nov 6 2009, 20:09 PM

Wanna fluffy/TT nids? Here's the idea. In TT if you have quite cheap gauntie squad - that is, you didn't gave them upgrades that would wind up cost/model too high, you can buy "without number" for such squad - which means every time squad is killed you deploy it _again_ on the table edge. Easy to implement in DoW2? Easy - just make it _alternative_ upgrade that blocks other upgr and which researched reduces reinforce cost to 0 and time to some really short time. With retreat mechanics - you have nearly the same effect.

Hmm, wait.. what did you say? It was right there, with rippers? And there was so much QQ about it? Hmm.. so perhaps, fluffy, swarmy nids are not something their enemies would like to see?

Problem with fluff is that fluff is other name for propaganda. SM fluff is pure propaganda, Eldar fluff is space elf propaganda etc. Each race, when shown from their perspective is the best, the strongest, the most deadly etc. Wanna go with this - hey, we should have SM that single-handed kill thousands of Orcs, Orc Waaaagh!s that decimate entire planets (hmm, with SM on their surface ;D), Eldars so wise and all-knowing they win battle not even leaving their home and Tyranids devouring everything on their path (if everything than with glorious SM and unbeatable Orc hordes?).

So.. perhaps let's leave propaganda in books, and let's try to behave like it is a game? TT is quite handy right here, but again there is little something. Even with some units taken from their niches (banshees, scouts, warriors..) what we have right now is not THAT far from tabletop. Belive it or not, you can have swarm of cheap gants, or you can pick fewer but packed up with upgrades. Or skip most of them and field Warrior/Fex army. Seems familiar?

And one, final, thing. DoW2, in its whole glory, is definitly designed for team vs team games. When you play 1 vs 1 you have about 1/3 of tabletop normal army under your controll (1 hq unit, most of the times 1 or 2 heavy supprot units, some - 1? 2? fast attack things and about 2 troop choices). Only combined into team of 3 you really reach "fluff/TT" level. Do an excerscise and pick two teammates with the same races. Get the same color-scheme. Go against other mono-race team. And then, whatever the result of the match was, look at the replay. It's gonna be far more 'fluffy' and epic than any 1:1.

+1.

you play gaydar right? Gayrdians fucking owns tacs, try it, try to play against sm just massing guardians, you dont realy need anything else.

All the SM QQ is hilarious. You want it fluffy? Ok, heres fluffy:

- SM player annihilates other team with 1 loss. Sargeant Bruce took 50 frags and threw himself into the Eldar lines, taking out half the ranks of Craftworld Spacefags. Unfortunately, the explosion was on a fault line, which set off a chain reaction leading to the destruction of the planet. Despite winning the battle, the SM loses the planet they were fighting for. Nothing was accomplished.

Totally Grimdark.

-SM player wins with just Ben Afleck and 1 Tac Squad. But they accidentally destroyed the VPs in the process so the game cannot end. Nothing was accomplished.

Totally Grimdark.

-SM player destroy's the other team's HQ, grabs the VPs, and routes the other army into a perfect ambush. The planet is theirs and all is well. But the governor placed in charge diverts the entire planetary defense fund to building a towering gold-spackled monument to himself. Aliens come back for rape and pillage. Back to step one.

Totally Grimdark.

union of sanc refuse with some .gr gems this site is just starting to get really awesome.

Tbh I´m not very happy with how the game evolved. DoW2 was much fluffier earlier versions of the game. Sure on the balance sector it moved on pretty well I guess, but I´m sure it would have been accomplishable without the huge steps backwards in the fluff sector.
I am not demanding a "fluff-utopia", I´m just unable to accept the loss of fluff we already had.
Yay cool we have balance....at the cost of teeth less, scout heavy SM, beefy Eldar and synapseless Nids....hmm, kinda not satisfied with that.

Guardian warlock. I think that pretty much sums up the imbalance. I don't necessarily care about fluff as much as I care about the fact that one GU+Warlock upgrade can pwn a 500 req squad.

I lol'd so hard...

I just got back from a TT game where one of my tactical squads survived the onslaught of ghazkull and 9 nobs with powered up choppas.

A 3 man tac squad melts under 6 ORK BOYZ. not nobs, ORK BOYZ in DoW2. It's not fluffy.

I am not demending fucking chuck norris space marines, i am asking for space marines that can take a fucking punch.

Tac squads that don't even have the number to make a sufficient combat squad? Relic used the fluff bible as toilet paper. By taking out units that are in TT, Relic was forced to change the makeup of the units they already had to replace the ones they left out. It's a fun game, unless you're looking for a fluffy port to your TT.

And sluggas that outnumber tacs only 2 to 1 IS fluffy?

Fluffy SM are basically Chuck Norris in space. Even halfway fluffy SM would be unbearably overpowered unless you triple the squad sizes of all the other factions.

This post has been edited by fatlazyhomer: Nov 7 2009, 06:22 AM

Perhaps I should rephrase:

I want Space Marines that can take a punch, guys who do not melt to everything in 5 seconds. and maybe having a bolter that does something.

You know, Space Marines. Just the TT level would be nice

Tacs CAN take a punch. If you think tacs die fast in melee, you have clearly never used ranged units of other factions. High unit lethality is the name of the game, and regardless of what faction you play, you will suffer hard for being slow to react.

This post has been edited by fatlazyhomer: Nov 7 2009, 10:48 AM

Well I certainly don't want the freaking fluff where 1 marine = 100000000000000000000000000000000 dead xenos. But it would be nice if tacs, who are supposed to be proficient in melee, did not have to rely on INITIATES to survive.

lol agree

Where would be strat if you only needed tacs to fight melee and ranged squads???

This post has been edited by timousso: Nov 7 2009, 15:27 PM