I'd say yes when there are too many, because factions like Elves can then start with Arwen and get a serious advantage. Examples are Rohan, Tournament Snow and of course, Celduin.
Inns are definitely a problem; certain factions have huge advantages on Inn maps over others. Outposts aren't that much of an issue imo, they provide the exact same bonus to each player and it's skill really to take one, keep it and protect it, or to destroy your opponent's outpost all the time to prevent him from benefiting from it. It's only on maps like Celduin River where the problem is obvious; the neutral structures there definitely kill the fun when certain factions can take them way faster than others. On any other map though I don't mind Outposts as much.
This post has been edited by BlueKnight: Sep 29 2009, 19:30 PM
Signalfires and outposts are good yes as they give the same bonus for everybody (though some factions have a better PowerPointTree or already have an uber owning economy *cough* Isengard *cough*) but Inns are Overpowered for Elves and Dwarves, good for Mordor, Goblins and MotW and totally sucks for the Angmar & Isengard so thats pretty lame.
Factions like Dwarves have a much harder time holding on to them though, because the Battlewagon, their only fast unit, can't capture them and therefore you can't control them properly.
Once they have them, they can easily defend them with the Men of Dale, Battle Wagons and Phalanx. And when they have one of their melee heroes, they can also easily capture it because they can tank everything
Once they have them, they can easily defend them with the Men of Dale, Battle Wagons and Phalanx. And when they have one of their melee heroes, they can also easily capture it because they can tank everything
You're not going to want to defend your Outposts the entire game, you need to fight elsewhere as well. On maps like Rohan, you seriously can't afford to defend all four Outposts and most definitely not with a force that large. You can build forward Mines, but they'll get destroyed easily and although it's possible to hold on to them, the point is that it is much easier for other factions like Goblins.
The early advantage of Outposts is also that you don't have to pay 300 resources for one. It takes a resource building 72 seconds to pay itself back and that's with full production. Outposts also produce more, so they're insanely overpowered.
If EA was to decide to make a patch for their game, here is what I would recommend they do with neutral structures. In fact, I would go so far as to propose specific numeric solutions that would be the perfect component of this hypothetical patch.
Serious balance issues first. Outposts are rofl now. They die in a second to a feather but will make you rich in that second. If your opponent has an Outpost for a minute and you don't, you're going to lose. That all sucks, let's make things fairer:
- Outpost: --- health increased to 1500 (from 1000); --- resource production decreased to 50/10s (from 60/10s).
Ruined Towers are horrible neutral structures. They're just so annoying. I do not really like it when one battalion of archers can fend off every small attack force you send at it; it takes a concentrated army to take down a tower (since you can't clump on them on Buckland, other maps it's easier) which is just ridiculous. Nerf please.
- Ruined Tower health reduced to 2000 (from 3000).
Inns are ridiculously strong for some factions and weak for others. First, let's make them killable, so some strategy comes from attacking Inns. No question that Dwarven Inn units are ridiculously overpowered, let's nerf buildcost/buildtime appropriately. In fact, so are MotW's archers, let's nerf them too - except also make them match the stats (horde size) of normal Ithilien Rangers as it looks very stupid atm when they mix together. Hobbits are too cheap, too slow, and their palantir image looks like dog barf so let's fix that too. Inn Wildmen build way too fast which would be a noticeable problem if the rest of the game's balance didn't suck, Inn Corsairs are fine as they're weak but if this same patch was to, say, buff them to be worth buying, then they should probably get a buildtime increase as well. Then for good measure let's give every faction a unique Inn unit, so Mordor and Angmar can get Haradrim Archers and Dark Ranges respectively and we'll all be happy.
- Inns: --- health reduced to 2500 (from 3000). --- Inn Dunedain Rangers (Men): ----- buildtime increased to 45s (from 30s); ----- horde size now 12 (from 10), matching Ithilien Rangers; ----- upgraded damage decreased to 90/30 (100/50), matching Ithilien Ranger's stronger 2.02 attack. --- Inn Hobbits (Elves) now recruit at level five, consistent with their max level. However, they gain no damage/health bonuses and have the same experience awards. - Hobbits (including MotW/Dwarves Summoned Hobbits): --- cost increased to 70 (from 50); --- speed increased to 45 (from 35); --- now stealth in trees; --- palantir image changed. --- Inn Men of Dale (Dwarves): ----- cost increased to 300 (from 150); ----- buildtime increased to 60s (from 30s). --- Inn Wildmen (Isengard): ----- buildtime increased to 30s (from 20s); ----- horde positions improved; ----- now have access to Torches, Heavy Armor and Banner Carrier upgrades; ----- now have correct banner carrier upon reaching level 2; ----- now regenerate correctly upon reaching level 2; ----- experience and level bonuses now match those of standard Wildmen. --- Inn Corsairs (Goblins) buildtime increased to 45s (from 25s). --- Mordor Inn unit now Haradrim Archers, cost 250 buildtime 45s. --- Angmar Inn unit now Dark Rangers (from Wildmen), cost 300 buildtime 60s.
Below aren't really balance issues but they do make the game better. If this patch was to, say, make naval combat sensible, then we'd want some way to heal our more important combat ships. And Tournament Gundabad is really no fun when you've got no benefit from having three Signal Fires.
- Shipwrights now slowly heal nearby friendly ships. - Signal Fire capture bonus altered to 25%/44%/58% (from 25%/50%), rewarding capture of a third Signal Fire.
This post has been edited by Forlong: Sep 30 2009, 02:48 AM
Factions like Dwarves have a much harder time holding on to them though, because the Battlewagon, their only fast unit, can't capture them and therefore you can't control them properly.
seriously thats complete bullshit on big maps only arwen than mine system and gobs cant hold the op at the start you catn spammm 5 gobs vs 1 batt dwarves at the start so dwarves at the shitty huge 1s1 maps are just more op than they allready are
I don't think dwarves have a hard time controlling them, at least not in late early game. Build a min close to every in/outpost. (or behind it) then if some soldiers come to take it... run then down with a battlewagon lol
seriously thats complete bullshit on big maps only arwen than mine system and gobs cant hold the op at the start you catn spammm 5 gobs vs 1 batt dwarves at the start so dwarves at the shitty huge 1s1 maps are just more op than they allready are
First of all, don't be so rude, especially with the precarious situation you are in right now. Also, the larger the map, the more units spam factions can get and the further their spam is, so larger maps favor spam factions because they always need time to get their spam going. Rushing factions like Dwarves are favored on small maps, because their speed doesn't allow them to go far and even a builder has a limited speed, so the initial rush will be delayed on a large map like Withered Heath. Goblins also have an easier time holding Outposts, because they're much faster and you could keep him busy trying to control the Outposts constantly.
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