Ok, so apparently (according to Khufu) all the top pros are fairly certain that Dackel is playing MrYuri's account for the CNC Season 1 tourney. I mean... transitioning from a Nod player to a hardcore GDI player (with Dackel's style) is no easy task to accomplish mid-tourney. So, that would seem pretty logical to assume.
That said, how does this get proven? I would assume innocence until proven guilty, but IF they are cheating... how would anybody prove this? I would be pretty upset if I got bumped by a player that was being mis-represented. Especially in round 2, as Optik had no reason to believe he would be playing anyone but a NOD MrYuri, and then all of a sudden his opponent picks GDI and has a completely different play style that Optik would have scouted in the previous replays. At least Khaoz (assuming he saw what happened) would have time to prepare.
QUOTE(Agent GreenFenril CTU @ Feb 1 2008, 10:39 AM)
First of all, that is one heavy accusation that you have to seriously back up.
Second, maybe he had a GDI smurf and was playing with that. Have you considered that option?
As I stated... I think it's important that we assume innocent until proven otherwise. However, the controversy is really "how do we know they aren't doing this... or that others aren't?"
Khufu posted this in the CNC forums, and others seemed to agree... that is where the accusation is coming from. The only way to really know is to watch the play-style REALLY closely. Like the positioning of buildings, initial build order, etc. I did notice some similarities... like the engi fake-drop used in a recent match (to force opponent to sell building). Something few players use... but not exactly conclusive.
I guess someone could do a Nick checker to see if he has other smurf accounts. Not sure how reliable that is...
It's important to note that some pros, including BBQ199 are questioning this, and it is reasonable to assume MrYuri and Dackel play together a LOT. So, it definitely could be MrYuri himself that practiced closely with Dackel during the break between round 1 and 2.
That said, the accusation still stands... and the real question is... how does EA handle this with no real proof either way. Is it best to just let it play out? Is there really anything they can do?
Is Dackel playing for MrYuri? Of course. Everyone knows it, that's not the issue. The issue is proof. There is no real way to prove it, as they were pretty careful to make sure they don't get caught. You absolutely MUST give them the benefit of the doubt, or the entire tournament system would be blown wide open. So they get away with it this time. The problem is, what can EA do to ensure that this won't ever happen again?
To answer your question, rick, no. There is absolutely nothing EA can do, there is no solid proof, and you can't take any action without 100% solid infallible proof. EA must and will "just let it play out". Here's hoping, however, that they think of something to prevent such happenings before the next tournament. It will be a tough one, because short of having Apoc come to one's house to physically observe the match, there isn't really anything that can be done.
This post has been edited by WhatsTheStory?: Feb 1 2008, 18:53 PM
I'm also very interested in seeing how this turns out, in particular what Khaoz will do about this, seeing as he may just have lost his chance to win 5000$ because of unfair play.
I'm not saying MrYuri/Dackel cheated, I'm just saying it looks suspicious. I guess we won't know the truth until we see some proof.
This post has been edited by bbq199: Feb 1 2008, 19:03 PM
Dackel and MrYuri are real-life friends. They travel to LAN and play together live almost every weekend. Almost the entire Germany community knows this, and it's not a secret. They go to LANs together for no reason other than to practice live.
Now what would make you think it would be out of the question for Dackel to travel to MrYuri's house and play from his computer? Obviously they are both very smart people and wouldn't be so stupid as to get caught on something as simple as an IP check. They will have thought of this and are one step ahead of you.
Now you might say, "they wouldn't travel that far". Oh, they wouldn't? People have traveled much, much further for much slimmer chances at much smaller prizes on many occasions. Dackel is extremely confident. He knows he is one of the best players in Command & Conquer 3, and I would wager that he very much likes his chances of winning the entire tournament. He views the lost in round 1 as a fluke, and is angry about it, and wants to win the tournament, and especially wants a rematch with ShadowTerran. There are so many reasons why Dackel would do this it's not even funny. For 5k dollars, I'm sure the drive isn't that bad. Dackel likely doesn't see this as much of a risk as he is pretty sure he will win the tournament. In his eyes, he's too good a player to get knocked out of the same tournament TWICE. He doesn't see it as a chance, he sees it as a virtual guarantee to the money. If you could drive a few hours to pick up 5k dollars (or more likely 2,500 as he will probably split with Yuri) wouldn't you?
I have to emphasize yet again that there is no concrete proof as they were quite diabolical in their planning of this entire scheme, so the benefit of the doubt must be given until solid proof can be shown, which in this case it never will. EA can't do anything about it this time, but that doesn't make it any less saddening as it damages the integrity of eSports as a whole and is just another one of the reasons why almost all serious money tournaments take place at LAN.
IP come from a computer BUT people in front of the computer HAVENT ip in from of their head. So, what do you hope? which stuff will say without a doubt : it's not him / it's him ?
I M P O S S I B L E
internet tournament is probably the EASYEST stuff to fake, final point
One way to be certain... if MrYuri and Dackel wanted to provide solid proof...
Just have Dackel and Khufu play a match at the exact same time MrYuri and ShadowTerran play their next match. Dackel can't be everywhere at once, aha. That said, this is reliant on Dackel wanting to play the match... which he can just decline.
I sincerely hope this isn't taking anything away from MrYuri if he truly is pulling this off on his own (which is definitely a possibility). Nothing is proven.
I sincerely hope this isn't taking anything away from MrYuri if he truly is pulling this off on his own (which is definitely a possibility). Nothing is proven.
It is certainly taking away from MrYuri if he is pulling this off but you, and everyone else, have been delicate about this so far. Please keep it that way as this is an interesting discussion not only of this specific situation but what can be done going forward to avoid this sort of thing.
My two cents....is it not possible that in light of the fact that both are mates that he could have been training him behind the scenes just for this opportunity? I assume, with some intense 1 on 1 training, that the trainee would somewhat emulate the trainer. More importantly what can EA do to deal with this sort of thing? LAN tournies only when money is at stake is a fine suggestion......but it will diminish the amount of dollars available to the competitors.
This post has been edited by methuselah: Feb 1 2008, 20:40 PM
I think the only sure-fire way to prevent this and other forms of "cheating" is to have the tourney be LAN based.
To have RTS as a sport , you have to be willing to spend a lot of money and have a respected ranking system. If the disconnecting issue continues plus future tourneys continue to be run in the current fashion, any hopes of having this game turn into an eSport are slim.
hm it might have been mr yuri that played. The opening bo was slightly different. But 1 common thing was there exstreme dependance on predators only. Even though predators are beaten by rocketinnfantry mixed with well placed tanks. To prevent trampling. Rocketinfantry dps is quite high as well as there range.
That said, how does this get proven? I would assume innocence until proven guilty, but IF they are cheating... how would anybody prove this? I would be pretty upset if I got bumped by a player that was being mis-represented. Especially in round 2, as Optik had no reason to believe he would be playing anyone but a NOD MrYuri, and then all of a sudden his opponent picks GDI and has a completely different play style that Optik would have scouted in the previous replays. At least Khaoz (assuming he saw what happened) would have time to prepare.
Anybody have some thoughts or input here?
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