Red Alert 3

For starts this is not about balance only. Its more a question of prefence on which map is generally prefered.

For me is 1.10 because you had to think a bit more. Empire had a strong tier 2 push and a strong late game with onis/ shoguns. So it was a lot about, constant scouting to see when he techs up. Also the surport powers. Where better, even with cryos shot etc, it meant that empires macro game could work well, and also you can just lv3 shot once the game reaches a certain point, which is the allied gameplay atm.

Also with soviets, fast tech to tier 3 had its place. It was a viable build order that could work quite well, now with apocs being the most stupid and slow unit atm thats not viable.

Allies had the tanya drop, which was lame, but against somthing else to watch out for.




Discuss

Do you have patch notes on what was supposedly changed from 1.10 to 1.12?

I frankly miss the use of shoguns, a lot of Empire players focused on them way too much Now you hardly see them because they are so slow

I have a vague idea.

But patch notes would be pointless in this topic. As having a list of a random change won't help people form oponoins


This post has been edited by masKeD: Oct 29 2009, 01:44 AM

No i mean just so we have a clear definition of what was changed so people dont start ranting about how 1.03 was much better than 1.12 because dogs could fly or something random

Personally I have no preference, I didnt feel like much changed, but I would have to say 1.10.

The Tanya Bureau is the dumbest idea, only reason you make one is for Tanya.

Which is now the most expensive Command I believe (Rax, AF, DB, T1 and T2 + Tanya Price)

I used to prefer Patch 1.10, it took me a while to adapt and get used to 1.12 and now that I am used to 1.12 I must say I prefer the overall balance of it now compared to 1.10

sometimes over time.. people alter their view point ...

I didn't play very much 1.10... but i heard about the weaknesses in that patch.
I think 1.12 alleviated the concerns very nicely.
I prefer 1.12 but I did not play very much 1.10 so I do not know if my "vote" counts for very much.
Did EA increase the BlackHole Armor of the AssaultDestroyer in this patch ?

Overall, I think Greg Black and Jeremy Feasel have done a great job with Red Alert 3.

wait, you're joking right? Did they not patch the assault destroyer armor yet? lol?

and on-topic, patch 1.12 is WAY better than 1.10. 1.10 was all tesla/allied turret pushing, allied games and mirrors often had idiotic tanya drops that were unstoppable because she dropped so fast and easily, and empire was still sucky.

1.12 all the way

or the surgical+time bomb combo which destroyed all you units while they're still marching

1.12 but we need a 1.13

the AD bug was fixed in 1.12.

i think what happened is...
they changed it incorrectly in 1.11 up to 65% making it too large
and corrected it in 1.12 making it the originally intended 35%...

but i do not remember exactly i could be wrong.
obviously if i'd played more games i would've remembered
and i feel terrible about it

This post has been edited by JimRaynor: Oct 29 2009, 03:59 AM

1.12 Log

• Garrison Range bonus reduced to 75% from 100%.

• Walls and Structures no longer block line of sight while being constructed.

• Parachute drop time increased.

• Oil Derricks now explode when destroyed. Keep your distance.

• Observation Post health increased to 10000 from 3000.

• Due to the recent downturn in the global economy, all Super Weapons are now half price.

• Anti-Infantry vehicles (Riptide, Jet Tengu) vulnerability to GUN damage (PeaceKeeper, Conscript, Imperial Warrior) now reduced to 25% from 50%.

• The Top Secret Protocols have been reordered for all three factions.

Balance Changes: By Faction

• Allied Javelin Soldier cost reduced to 300 from 400.

• Allied Aircraft Carrier drone speed increased to 225 from 150.

• Allied Aircraft Carrier drones no longer give large amounts of XP when killed.

• Allied Aircraft Carrier reload time reduced to 10s from 15s.

• Allied Assault Destroyer Black Hole Armor bonus increased to 35% from 25%.

• Allied Outpost now gains additional health when upgraded (25% per level).

• Allied Athena Cannon no longer requires line of sight to attack. It can fire over walls now!

• Allied Cryocopter health reduced to 650 from 750.

• Allied Chronorift cast delay reduced to 1s. Rift time changed to 5s , 10s, and 15s, depending.

• Allied Defense Bureau build time increased to 30s from 10s.

• Special Agent Tanya Adams now requires the Defense Bureau to be built.

• Allied Apollo Fighter heath increased to 300 from 250.

• Allied Chronosphere now requires the Defense Bureau to be built.

• Soviet Hammer Tanks can no longer leech while moving.

• Soviet Apocalypse Tank grinder damage halved.

• Soviet Flak Trooper Cost increased to 400 from 300.

• Soviet structures will no longer refund 100% of their cost if canceled after taking damage. Refund value reduction is equivalent to the damage taken by the building.

• Soviet Super Power Plant energy production reduced to 350 from 500.

• Soviet Super Power Plant will no longer explode if it is destroyed before it has completed building.

• Soviet Stingray health increased to 450 from 360.

• Soviet Dreadnaught Missiles now scatter against units.

• Soviet MiG Fighter health increased to 240 from 200.

• Soviet Iron Curtain now requires the Battle Lab to be built.

• Japan MCV build radius increased to facilitate wall building.

• Japan Jet Tengu now much less deadly against each other in air form.

• Japan Tsunami Tank now auto-heals while it’s secondary ability is active.

• Japan Honorable Discharge power no longer deals any friendly fire.

• Japan King Oni health increased to 3000 from 2250.

• Japan Emperor’s Rage powers now limit the speed debuff to 75% for all levels.

• Japan Wave Force Artillery no longer requires line of sight for attacking. It can shoot through walls, buildings, and anything else dumb enough to get in front of it.

• Japan Naginata Cruiser Spread-Torpedo damage halved.

• Japan Naginata Cruiser health reduced to 1200 from 1400.

• Japan Shogun Battleship speed reduced to 50 from 75.

• Japan Shogun Battleship cannons now properly scatter against other units.

• Japan Shogun Battleship rate of fire now reduced by 40%.

• Japan Point Defense Drones now have an expiration time of 2 minutes.

• Japan Final Squadron Power damage reduced in accordance with the new power tree design.

Note that Soviet buildings still block LOS while being constructed.

This post has been edited by whalegamer: Oct 29 2009, 04:12 AM

Parachute time + DB = Tanya almost never built!

Why on earth did they increase observation post health? No one ever gets them unless they have a spare engineer for some reason...

This post has been edited by MalteserMan: Oct 29 2009, 04:18 AM

I almost forgot that Empire didn't have an MCV build radius for walls prior to this

do you think LOS should remain until the building is complete?
I think it should. Throwing up a building or two to slow a push is lame. If the Soviet player has a crane
they could put up two buildings at once.

Yeh, LOS should probably remain until a building is maybe 75% of or more.

Nothing worse than going in for a base push, raping buildings and then having 2 superreactors on hold blocking an entire base!! while they put tesla towers behind them that dont require LOS

I was pointing that out because the patch said that they should no longer block LOS. Yet it still does. This wasn't patched.

1.12

Things like Tanya, shoguns, and uber base pushes should not exist.

Things like Japan mirror still need fixing though.

here is what i suspect they were thinking.

to make the over all point let's suppose they made the health of an observation post 5,000,000.
Once your engineer captured the post you'd have a permanent view of the map around that post.
Your opponent would have to focus his entire army on that observation post for 10 minutes to take down the Observation post. And you would have all the time in the world to assemble your army and defend that observation post if you felt it was worth protecting. In fact, it could be your lowest priority for protecting and you could still eventually get to protecting it because of its health.
This is the type of situation EA was trying to create with the increased the health of an observation post. They were trying to 'persuade' players into spending $500 in exchange for a view of the map that was a lot closer to "permanent" than in previous patches where the observation post would go down in a few seconds to a few infantry units.

you are correct that in 1.10 no one was getting them. EA was hoping to get people to spend the $500 in exchange for some `permanent` map vision.

This post has been edited by JimRaynor: Oct 29 2009, 04:56 AM

yes, because soviets are SO overpowered now, everyone uses them. We better make sure we take away the soviets ability to delay an opponents harassment for a couple seconds, as opposed to much SMALLER issues, like honorable discharge and the invincible allied air-force.

Seriously, did people just legitimately complain about the soviets? actually?!?