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# 1Crabby Lobster Jun 15 2015, 01:18 AM
Soooo I've taken up playing a lot of Azir. I've probably played 30 azir games over the past week or so out of a total of about 40 games. Most of them were in dominion but a bunch were in normals too. Anyhow, I did some reading up on Azir guides, etc. and came across a topic on reddit here.

Basically, these diamond guys told a silver player that he SHOULD NOT be playing azir because azir is too hard for anyone less than diamond to play. I find it kind of ridiculous to say silvers shouldn't play mechanical champs. Rather, they should be warned to put a lot of time into those champs to make them work. I think Azir could punish people pretty hard in silver, so it's a great champ to main. You just have to play him a lot before it would really start working good.

Any other opinions on this? Also, is a guy like me with 3 gold accounts playing azir a bad thing? I'm not close to diamond lol but I think I'm mechanical enough to handle azir fine. I seem to be doing pretty well on it so far lol.

This post has been edited by Crabby Lobster: Jun 15 2015, 15:54 PM

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# 2biriarr Jun 15 2015, 17:29 PM
azir is fine if you can play him

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# 3Feanor Jun 16 2015, 21:33 PM
Azir is all about rapid decision making and quick mechanics so if you aren't diamond you will have a rough time fully utilising him. Will you do fine? Sure! Will you utilise his skills to the maximum? Nope not at all.

It's like Lee Sin. The higher the elo, the more effective he becomes. When I was in Bronze/Silver I played Warwick and Taric and magically rose to gold without much effort because they only require game knowledge.

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# 4CNCZONE Jun 16 2015, 23:54 PM
Ofc ppl in Silver or gold can play azir good, but ppl in Diamond just play him better.

just practice and play allot of games with him, im thinking of trying azir maybe

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# 5Crabby Lobster Jun 19 2015, 21:48 PM
QUOTE(Feanor @ Jun 16 2015, 16:33 PM) *

It's like Lee Sin. The higher the elo, the more effective he becomes. When I was in Bronze/Silver I played Warwick and Taric and magically rose to gold without much effort because they only require game knowledge.

This is so not true imo. Lee Sin shines in low mmr because he punishes bad positioning really hard. And bad positioning is so common in silver and gold. Even a bad lee sin can carry games if he just learns to kick an enemy in the right direction.

The idea of "people below diamond shouldn't play azir" wasn't that people below diamond CAN'T play him. It was more like they're at a disadvantage for choosing him rather than something else. I kind of feel like if you put enough time into him, he's as good as anything though. Heck, I think Azir might actually be a great choice if you want to spam games as him, just cuz low mmr people are clueless about COUNTERPLAYING azir.

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# 6JulzzZ Jun 20 2015, 13:10 PM
I saw one silver who has some pretty impressive match history with him in ranked.. azir's really strong at the moment, but yeah you can't fully utilize his kit without some super fast thinking which is one of the things low elo struggle with..



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# 7Feanor Jun 20 2015, 17:57 PM
QUOTE
Lee Sin shines in low mmr because he punishes bad positioning really hard. And bad positioning is so common in silver and gold. Even a bad lee sin can carry games if he just learns to kick an enemy in the right direction.

Nope. If Lee Sin doesn't get an advantage in the early game, he will fall off hard. Lee Sin is a pretty demanding champion in both mechanics and game knowledge so he's pretty weak if you are a Bronze/Silver player. His winrate is also 1 to 2 % higher in Diamond comparing to Bronze. Same goes for Azir (not to mention Master+).

QUOTE
Heck, I think Azir might actually be a great choice if you want to spam games as him, just cuz low mmr people are clueless about COUNTERPLAYING azir.

This only works if you are better than said people. If you have the same mechanical skill, it doesn't matter that they don't know how to play against it because you won't be able to fully perform either way.

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# 8Crabby Lobster Jun 23 2015, 20:19 PM
QUOTE(JulzzZ @ Jun 20 2015, 08:10 AM) *

I saw one silver who has some pretty impressive match history with him in ranked.. azir's really strong at the moment, but yeah you can't fully utilize his kit without some super fast thinking which is one of the things low elo struggle with..

This is true. That's why I say I think they should play a lot of champions like azir or else not play them at all. If you play him a lot, you get better at quick thinking and are way more comfortable. If you're not going to put time into it, it's probably just best to avoid harder champions, even in higher mmr I suppose but especially lower.

QUOTE(Feanor @ Jun 20 2015, 12:57 PM) *

Nope. If Lee Sin doesn't get an advantage in the early game, he will fall off hard. Lee Sin is a pretty demanding champion in both mechanics and game knowledge so he's pretty weak if you are a Bronze/Silver player. His winrate is also 1 to 2 % higher in Diamond comparing to Bronze. Same goes for Azir (not to mention Master+).

Meh, I'm actually surprised Lee has higher winrate in diamond. I'm aware he can be tough to play, but you get many times more opportunities to do the insec crap on lee in lower mmr lol.

This post has been edited by Crabby Lobster: Jun 23 2015, 20:46 PM

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# 9Feanor Jun 25 2015, 18:33 PM
QUOTE
insec crap on lee in lower mmr lol.

Except low mmr will fail horribly at insec.

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# 10Crabby Lobster Jun 25 2015, 20:14 PM
QUOTE(Feanor @ Jun 25 2015, 13:33 PM) *

Except low mmr will fail horribly at insec.

Wait, what do we mean by "low mmr" here? I've seen many gold Lee Sins do very well at inseccing. I'm sure they aren't as quick to jump at the opportunities to insec as diamonds, but they get so many more opportunities that I'd think they should do better overall than diamonds. However, I can't argue if diamond win % is a little higher. I think I have good points as to why lee is perfectly viable in gold or lower at least though. tongue.gif

As for azir, I don't think he can punish as hard as lee, so I don't see as many reasons for him being viable in lower mmr. However, I feel like I can wreck people as him just cuz he has good potential for outplays. That's just reliant on me being underranked though, which I strongly believe I am right now. For those who aren't underranked, I'm not sure whether or not I should advocate them taking up maining Azir.

This post has been edited by Crabby Lobster: Jun 25 2015, 20:18 PM

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# 11biriarr Jul 1 2015, 23:41 PM
azir is so simple just play safe early and scale later on put enough pressure the enemy mid cant roam in lane phase bam! and he isnt THAT hard to learn mechanicly also desk what was ur ign?

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# 12Crabby Lobster Jul 7 2015, 22:42 PM
QUOTE(biriarr @ Jul 1 2015, 18:41 PM) *

azir is so simple just play safe early and scale later on put enough pressure the enemy mid cant roam in lane phase bam! and he isnt THAT hard to learn mechanicly also desk what was ur ign?

I haven't really played for a couple weeks. I think I accidentally removed you though, lol. You aren't the first person I've accidentally removed btw. Anyway, readd CaffeinatedTroll.

As for Azir mechanics, the hardest part is definitely his ult. I still find myself completely missing some of my ults after like 50 games on him. It's especially hard if you want to W-E-Q behind the other team and ult them into your team. There's just a lot of things that could go wrong in that. Also, as has already been said here, he requires quick decisions and also good positioning (both his own and the soldiers). I think I'm pretty quick and position well though. I just miss the occasional ult.

You're right that the basics can be simple though, like just sitting in the back and positioning everything isn't too hard. I think new Azir players should make a point to stand by their adc and use ult to peel enemies away from both the adc and yourself. It's a lot easier to play like that then do flashy engages and assassinations. Trying to do too much can get you in a lot of trouble.

This post has been edited by Crabby Lobster: Jul 7 2015, 22:49 PM

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# 13Crabby Lobster Jul 10 2015, 04:38 AM
I just discovered the joy of top lane teleport azir with nashor's-lich bane. It's not the best, but the turret killing speed is HILARIOUS. Just split all day, hopefully you can outplay enough to win the 1v1s, and kill every turret looool.

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# 14Crabby Lobster Jul 20 2015, 07:29 AM
After playing roughly 60 azir games in normal, I finally brought him out in ranked. I'm 0-5 as him so far fml. I've had multiple people tell me I played well in those games though and just lost cuz heavy team, so I guess I'll keep picking him until I'm like 0-12. I feel like he's gotten to be one of my better champs, at least as far as mid lane is concerned and I'm usually way up in cs. I just can't seem to win the game as him...

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# 15Squaggle Jul 21 2015, 03:41 AM
I used to really dislike Azir, I didn't like having him on my team, I didn't have any respect for him when playing against him; never really lost because of one doing well. Then I started playing him... Oh my balls this guy is so nuts.

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# 16Crabby Lobster Jul 21 2015, 17:05 PM
K the azir loss streak is done. 1-5 now.

Azir kind of is nuts. I think I'm on average up 30 cs in lane laugh.gif. It also seems fairly common for me to get triple/quadra kills as him and/or go on like 8+ killing sprees.

I really don't think he needs a nerf though. His early lane phase is strong, but perfectly counterplayable and he has a weaker mid game than most mids. Then he turns on late game and just deletes people though, but he also gets deleted all game if people can get on him. I feel the reason he's seen often in pro play isn't because he's op, but just because he has such a high ceiling, so the pros can use him extremely well.

I get a bit of a smile every time I see a pro player pick Azir in LCS. I love watching pros use this champ, especially Fenix from TL. Fenix has been my favorite player for a while because of his Azir play. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Crabby Lobster: Jul 21 2015, 17:09 PM

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# 17Squaggle Jul 22 2015, 20:18 PM
I plan of posting some of my Azir clips at somepoint when I find time to be bothered to put them together.

I'm so salty at Riot for nerfing him though. The CD/Attack Speed was so nice. Stinger was nuts on him and I ran CD runes and Attack speed. Made his early lane phase really strong. I'm going to miss the knock up on E as well, now he doesn't knock up I think he should be able to pass through enemies so they can't block his escape route to soldiers. Then when he passes through an enemy apply the shield.

I haven't played him yet today though so I can't say accurately how I feel about the changes conclusively.

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# 18Crabby Lobster Jul 23 2015, 06:56 AM
I've played him a few times so far and I have mixed feelings about the changes. I feel like they aren't as bad as I expected them to be at first. So... here's a few things I've learned for sure.

1. Level E last now. Q > W > E now.
2. Don't bother with CDR glyphs anymore. It's not worth it when they don't give attack speed.
3. Azir is actually stronger really early game now. The 20% attack speed passive >> the 10% you used to get from runes. You can take advantage of oppressive level 2-3 aggression a bit better now.
4. Azir has 60% passive attack speed now, which is 10% higher than the 50% from maxed cdr. So, late game azir has 10% more attack speed but no knock up.
5. The nerf was mostly to his midgame as morello's no longer gives you a big powerspike thanks to attack speed for cdr and because you're now forced to level w before e.

So, since CDR is no longer as big of a priority on Azir, I've been experimenting with cdrless builds. That is, archangel's instead of morello's. I actually really like the feel of this build. Basically, you pay 700 gold and lose 20% cdr and grievous wounds in exchange for +60 more AP, a free barrier, and flat mana instead of mana regen (I think the mana is a lot better).

I strongly advise you test archangel's azir yourself and come back here and tell me what you think biggrin.gif. I feel the biggest drawback is longer cooldown on Q, but the pros of archangel are pretty freakin good actually.

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# 19Squaggle Jul 23 2015, 13:20 PM
I like the idea of archangels but I think CDR is still super important regardless of the change to his passive. Repositioning his soldier and getting slows are really important to his kiting.

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# 20Crabby Lobster Jul 23 2015, 17:07 PM
Well, if you insist on cdr...

You need some kind of mana item, so you kind of have to choose between archangel, morello, or athene's. People have always just gone morello or athene's because they have cdr, which scaled super well on azir before. Going archangel's could open up nashor's as a viable cdr option though. Also, you can feel better about waiting until later for cdr now, if you want to. Or just cdr boots, but sorc's might be too good to pass up idk..

Also, have you been getting rlyai's on azir? I haven't really tried it yet until late game, but it could be really strong if you get extra soldier attacks off thanks to the slows.

This post has been edited by Crabby Lobster: Jul 23 2015, 17:27 PM

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