Heroes of Newerth

Flint Beastwood Guide

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# 21syllable Mar 11 2011, 11:10 AM
Well with heroes like andromeda, sand wraith, repulsor, pebbles, bubbles, witch slayer, magmus, behemoth, pharaoh, hellbringer, hammerstorm, chipper, thunderbringer, hag, ... being top picks and bans I thought that that wasn't a bad way to use shrunken. I've seen enough top tier players throw a token or their life just because they tried to do what you suggest. Actually I see more people caught off guard unable to use shrunken than I see people going in with shrunken activated. And I do know with which group I want to be lumped in with.

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# 22SpainDevil Mar 11 2011, 12:42 PM
Syllable is right at that point, I would consider myself mid public tier playing with the top public tier time to time and even there many people get cc´ed to death because they did not use their shrunken head properly. I am also way to greedy with the seconds of my bkb making me die unnecessarily so I think the way he is suggesting is pretty good for all the players he can still give advice. It is not like he is writing guides for 1900 players.

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# 23VariantThirteen Mar 11 2011, 15:22 PM
andromeda, sand wraith, repulsor, pebbles, bubbles, witch slayer, magmus, behemoth, pharaoh, hellbringer, hammerstorm, chipper, thunderbringer, hag

Of the list syllable provided, only the ones bolded can't be avoided with well timed reactive BKBs. Left unbolded are the various heroes who don't have disables you can't dispel by using BKB afterwards, who you can dodge the spell by timing the BKB right (wasting their spell for your teammate's benefit and maximising your BKB time), who don't have a disable to begin with, or who's disable goes through magic immunity anyway.

If you're using BKB defensively, sure, you can negate spell damage and so on as well by activating it first, but that also means you're not using it to it's full potential, and it also ignores that the primary purpose of BKB isn't to avoid spell damage, but to avoid disables that shut down your ability to carry. Let's face it; for your team having a nuke's worth of damage on the carry doesn't matter lategame as long as he's still alive, properly positioned and pumping damage and effects out.

I was too harsh though, I apologise. There are times when defensively using BKB makes sense, but it isn't always.

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# 24syllable Mar 11 2011, 21:02 PM
Lol I'd like to see anyone shrunken head in time when a pebbles PK's on you to combo you. Like almost all of those heroes listed have an instant cannot-be-dodged ability really >.>

It's a playstyle I guess, but I see more people doing it wrong than right, that's the main reason I wrote it like I did in the guide.

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# 25Gameslayer989 Mar 11 2011, 21:25 PM
damn it, i haven't got the longest guide on HoN in GR anymore sad.gif

good job thumb.gif

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# 26VariantThirteen Mar 12 2011, 06:31 AM
QUOTE(syllable @ Mar 11 2011, 21:02 PM) *

Lol I'd like to see anyone shrunken head in time when a pebbles PK's on you to combo you. Like almost all of those heroes listed have an instant cannot-be-dodged ability really >.>

It's a playstyle I guess, but I see more people doing it wrong than right, that's the main reason I wrote it like I did in the guide.

Frosty fingers to dodge pebbles, if you're fighting near a lot of fog your team doesn't have sight of (and doesn't have sight of pebbles) then the BKB is better used defensively. Otherwise it's better to use it reactively.

Of the list, the disables that are very easy to dodge are bolded, the ones that have something serious that goes through immunity are italic'd, ones that can be broken after cast are underlined, ones that require positioning that you can normally read in time to use it and screw their plan are struck out. In red are the ones that really only do damage (generally not a huge concern if your positioning is right). In blue are the ones that you absolutely must BKB defensively for before entering a fight.

andromeda, sand wraith, repulsor, pebbles, bubbles, witch slayer, magmus, behemoth, pharaoh, hellbringer, hammerstorm, chipper, thunderbringer, hag

Of course, depending on the team, something like HB's ulti stunning you while magic immune is vastly preferable to it leading to a lockdown with other abilities, but that has more to do with being out of position. This is all also dependant on the individual player and largely his internet connection. Below 150ish ping those values are true, above 200 substantially more cautious use is important with the positioning dependant threats, above 300 (ggaustralia) you might as well not be playing HoN at your own level.

Also worth mentioning are the heroes that it's vitally important to save it to use after they cast their spell to dispell it despite it going through immunity like Tree's ultimate.


(And on seeing it done, good magic immunity dodging is absolutely vital to playing carries who accept a lot of committment like Pred and Maliken. On both those heroes I've dodged a lot of pebbles combos. The best bit is them not realising it hasn't hit until after the combo is over before of the hueg animation on Stags - that shit is absolutely priceless).


Edit: Was Sylla named after you? Are you that guy?

This post has been edited by VariantThirteen: Mar 12 2011, 06:36 AM

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# 27syllable Mar 12 2011, 10:00 AM
No I'm not that guy, as far as I gather nobody actually liked syl-la-ble or whatever he liked to spell it. As far as shrunken goes, the last paragraph of previous post sums up what I think about it for the general public.

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