Warcraft 3 - TFT

IMBA DOTA HEROES

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# 21Simba Mar 28 2009, 00:12 AM
That's very untrue sad.gif

Well drow *could* be decent, due to the fact she actually has useful abilities

Sniper just blows complete dick. He's way too easy to gank with his terrible base strength and strength gain. The only reason Drow is decent is because retards don't know how to stop her in a lane so they let her walk all over them with cold arrow harass.

In other words, both are decent in public DotA, but are very lackluster in serious games.

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# 22Sage Apr 13 2009, 22:45 PM
Any of the previously really good carries are lackluster in serious games. Sniper can still be good if the player is good, just as anyone in that players hands can be good. Drow is better yes, and who CAN stop frost arrows...it's very hard. Especially since your own creeps don't respond when she uses frost on her attacks so she isn't getting damaged at the same time.

In this version of dota you can't just fight it out and have a few carries rape for your team late game...it's much more of a ganking/pushing/buffing game than ever before (well at least till .48 that I can remember tongue.gif ). Like now...void sucks. Spectre is meh. mortred is only decent because of his dagger you can last hit with now. The most pro carry now is morph it seems like, because with his ult he can do a lot of damage and just bounce to wherever he wants lol. Storm/Undying are completely imba now.

Anyways, sniper can still be good but in good hands he isn't as noob as you'd like to believe. A good player can harass/own with him very well.

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# 23Simba May 1 2009, 05:59 AM
Sniper and Drow are far too weak in a lane. They both have very very very low HP and that makes them only suitable for laning mid, and any other decent mid laner will wreck them so thoroughly that they will simply not be able to carry.

PA still sucks, suffers from the same disease as sniper/drow (no HP, although she can actually succeed at escaping thanks to blink strike, so it's not as terrible, same story with void)

TBH storm is the best hero in the game. He's completely unkillable in the hands of a good player, plus he can fly in from 1/4 of the map distance away, deal 500 damage while flying in, then purge/armor pierce attack you for another 150+ damage, then drop a trap on you, then slow you again, then net you, then slow you again, then trap you again, then slow you again...... There's no getting away from him, and there's no reliable way to kill him.
I do really like Morph as a carry as well... especially since they change his waveform so that he can attack and cast while in waveform... that's mad broken.


Crix + Lesh has to be my favorite lane combo though... sure Crix+Lina is "better", but I just love Leshrac so much.
PS, Leshrac is a better carry than sniper/drow/faceless/pa.

This post has been edited by Simba: May 1 2009, 05:59 AM

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# 24Sage May 1 2009, 07:20 AM
wrong. And storm isn't even used all that much in pro games, she just dominates pubs/normal tda games. Like I said, of all the past carries, mortred is the beastiest because of his dagger. If you can't last hit with mortred that's on you man. And like I said, I wouldn't pick Drow in a scrim or a league game, but she is still good. Late game her attack is super powerful and her silence is super effective. Post up a rep of you so I can see if you are good or not to be making balance statements biggrin.gif

And I'm telling you, a good player can do wonders with EITHER sniper or drow.

Here's my list of OP hero's:
1. Kunkka
2. Krob
3. Undying
4. ES
5. Naix

Notables: Mirana-->she's just multifunctional. Puck, very good. Morph as has been said is sick. Storm can be sick. CM may be the best team hero now...cuz of her global. Axe is SICK.

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# 25Simba May 25 2009, 09:00 AM
You've got to be kidding about storm though? ohmy.gif I've seen him used in all sorts of league line-ups... and while I can't much speak for PROFESSIONAL tournament grade players, I can certainly speak for high-skill scrims and in Garena high level CW matches... and I think "IDL" is the name of the league I'm thinking of. He can absolutely wreck face with a 3 second disable, 160 in nukes every 5(?) seconds with an armor piercing slow attack after every cast... he's a beastie! Then, toss in the fact he's near unkillable and you've got a real problem.

I don't really bother to save replays, I could probably find one but that'd be way to much work for a game I rarely play these days... I don't want to toot my own horn but I'm pretty darn good. I'm what you'd call a "pubstar." One of those randoms you find in your pub/tda who is actually good and possesses advanced knowledge about gameplay and whatnot. Mostly because I've played in loads of high-level garena scrims but I cba waiting around for ~30 minutes just to get a game going sad.gif I'm good enough to make up decent lineups on the fly while still thinking about lane-strength and farm-requirements and whatnot.

And yeah, DS and drow can do well in the hands of a good player in a pub... but so could old Naix or old PA. Doesn't say anything about the usefulness of a hero, just how bad pubs are. I'll agree that Drow can actually be decent in certain lineups, but never DS!

My top 5 for OPness:
1: CM - if you let the other team have her, you're screwed. First pick for every lineup imo.
2: ES - hate him with a fiery burning passion!
3: Krob - Early bstone and there's no stopping her
4: Kunkka - for obvious reasons
5: Storm - underrated but I've seen a good storm in action and it is awesome

I would put Puck up there as well, not so much PotM... she fell out of favor when they nerfed her leap so hardcore, and the game evolved. Still versatile yeah, but not nearly as awesome as she once was. Axe is one of my favorite heroes. Jungle top/bottom depending on which is the stronger opposing lane and just gank nonstop. Prefer jungling sent side due to having more tricks (harder for ganking, easier for jungling).
Undying I didn't put up there... I know he's amazing and completely wrecks face, but I just always seem to forget that. I suppose it's that I've never seen a good undying since they've patched him (probably because that's about when I stopped playing competitively).



Also lol @ this conversation. It's been like 1 post a month for 5 months tongue.gif

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# 26Sage May 27 2009, 23:04 PM
I agree with most of your points, but while I do see storm as being good and a bitch to kill, why don't we ever see her banned/picked? It's because teamwise it's hard to rate her usefulness. She's just a balanced mix between many things...her 3 second disable is like an offshoot of banes ult (bane is becoming an insta-ban as well, he's real good), and her 240 damage thing is just for farming/some damage after u pull the enemy in. Then her third skill is only for slowing every so often...but if you don't have the attack power anyways what's the point of the slow? So she really isn't an ONLY disable hero especially since you NEED a bloodstone first on her, and that doesn't help the team as much, then you can get your guinsoos. And she really isn't a pure damage hero because her dps is somewhat weak. She's insane in pubs and regular TDA games but in scrims I feel as if she doesn't do that well simply because she doesn't have 1 area she dominates in. And although Mirana is a versatile hero that is always picked, I don't know that storm is AS versatile/good. Idk, I think I need to see her played more by great players like ks.int or 1dota! or ravens or something.

And undying is just monster. I'll post a rep here in a sec of my average undying raping face.

Abaddon is being used more often now...but I'm still skeptical on him tongue.gif He's just a tanky support hero.

This post has been edited by Sage: May 27 2009, 23:05 PM


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# 27Simba May 27 2009, 23:22 PM
I suppose Storm is kept out of the loop because he's still fairly new and kind of unfamiliar territory.
Yeah Undying is wildly OP, but it seems like nobody knows how to use him yet, which is why I've kept him out of my top, like I said.

Abbadon is an amazing tank if you pay attention and drop your ult at the right time, problem is is that's all he can really do... a 250 heal and 150 shield every ~10 seconds isn't that useful outside of the lane.

Old Abbadon had more use tbh.

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# 28Sage May 28 2009, 02:07 AM
The fact he isn't easy to kill is why he is the support...Mek and guinsoos and he really doesnt die. Watch my game...that's mostly how people play undying sans the vanguard. I just got it cuz I was farming well. He's just not played because he's always banned haha. His tombstone is the problem, and his ult of COURSE.

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# 29Simba May 29 2009, 09:16 AM
That and the fact that Decay is ridiculously overpowered in a lane.

Dirge + CM is mad deadly. Dirge never runs out of mana, and once he drops 3ish decays he gains a crapton of extra damage due to the strength gain, while the enemies are sitting there with reduced HP. Bite, punch, punch, nova, punch, punch... if it's not dead by then, you're doing something wrong biggrin.gif

Being hard to kill doesn't make it good support though. People just tend to overrate his usefulness and focus incorrectly. The only way a hero can be useful by "staying alive" is by baiting the unintelligent sad.gif

On a similar note, I freaking love what they've done to Dazzle. He's mad underrated honestly, and I definitely want to see him used in more Krob lineups (-17ish armor makes ghosties do retarded damage).
Not to mention his animation is amazing for lanes, and his poison+heal is absolutely deadly for the enemy that overextends even slightly (3 creeps + melee hero attacking = 320 damage at level 1)

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# 30Sage May 29 2009, 23:57 PM
err...that's not how you use Dirge. You don't get decay. And if your getting anything but level 1 nova until 10, you're doing something wrong.

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# 31Simba May 31 2009, 01:00 AM
n1qshok.gif

I just jacked my Dirge/CM lane strats from MYM vids...

CM - Bite/aura for 1 and 2, aura for 3, bite at 4, bite/aura, then nova, then max aura then max bite or nova, depending on preference (ult at 10 and 11 obviously)

The reason for aura early is obvious - helps your team so very much. You don't really want to level bite past 2 because the damage procs every second, so if they are held for 1.5 seconds, it does 70 damage, 2 seconds, 140, 2.5 = 140, etc. The extra damage at .5 second hold are great at level 3/4, and you don't want nova at that point because you lack the mana to run two spells efficiently.

The way dirge fits into this is decay does ridiculous amounts of damage, reduces the opponent's HP and increases dirge's base damage in an AOE and for a very low mana cost with a pretty low cooldown. Soul steal or whatever it's called is for healing/nuking, but decay gets maxxed first. Tombstone is the last skill you learn - it's only really useful in defensive situations.

Dirge is great because of Decay. That's pretty much it.

It breaks down like this: dirge can get 2 attacks off during bite, and a third off after the fact, maybe a fourth if he walks well, then another decay and maybe a rip if he hasn't already. Dirge should already have decay'd both heroes twice, netting him +16 strength (and damage), and robbing each enemy of 152 MAX HP each, plus damage done by decay. So by now each enemy has last ~25%+ of his base HP (and -8 base damage if they are strength), CM bites and autos, dirge autos and rips and follows it up with decay.
Stuns and things can make it a little more difficult to pull off, but not really. At the very least you'll have absolute lane control for the first few minutes, which is ridiculously important. Tombstone doesn't give you any lane control at all, and is basically just free gold early on.

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# 32Sage Jun 1 2009, 00:49 AM
no, soul steal is why he's OP. Max that first. And in your other post you said nova. If you're playing CM mode and you get dirge/CM then you win, because the other team doesn't know what they're doing most likely lol! Most pro dirge's I've seen from like EG and Ks.int don't get decay till very late if ever. Soul steal is almost no mana and with a RoB (if you don't have CM) then you can spam all you want.

And you basically want tombstone for level 8-9 when you start team pushing the first few towers. You can also use a good tombstone for creep pulling or messing up their creep pulls. Just watch that rep man...I'm sure it'll show you some shit.

Now, you're right I have seen some pros use dirge the way you described, and yeah it's worked, but I like the soul steal/early tombstone much much better, as it basically can't fail. All it says about dirge is, he can basically do ANYTHING and still be OP haha. Not saying you're wrong, but I'm not saying I am either.

plus MYM is gone/sucks, ks.int, ravens, and EG ftw! Oh and 1d!

This post has been edited by Sage: Jun 1 2009, 00:50 AM

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# 33Simba Jun 4 2009, 04:42 AM
I really haven't ever seen anyone bypass decay and play dirge effectively...

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