So I was sitting here in my boxers like I always do and reading up on Adjacency Bonuses in Ingach's topic. The article looked goofy and uninformed. Why would GPG put some elaborate bonus system in place that would make Tech 1 Power Generator have 3% bonus next to one building and less around some other building? Or saying that first 3 mass storages around Tech 1 Metal Extractors do nothing but the fourth gives +1 mass. Why would GPG make system with such exceptions? And on top of that he used absolute values instead of relative ones. He claimed Tech 1 Air Factory producing and interceptor is draining 0 mass if it is adjacent to a mass extractor.
This is completely FALSE.
2. The Proof and The Concepts
I went out and made 133 air factories, each adjacent to exactly 1 extractor. Then I started production of interceptors in all of them. According to Ingach's spreadsheets I would be making them for free in all factories. Not so. They all claimed to be draining 0 mass but my mass income dropped for almost the full 133.
Mass and Energy values are floating point(decimal) numbers
All the mass and energy income in game as well as all the drain is kept in floating point form(decimal numbers). But since displaying that the factory making interceptor was draining 0.975 mass when next to mass extractor looks crappy on User Interface, the GPG rounds numbers for user interface. Which brings me to next concept:
Mass and Energy values are floored before being displayed on User Interface
Flooring is a type of rounding where decimal numbers are removed and so we get whole number. For instance if we floor 0.975 we get 0. In Sup comm everything you see in user interface is floored version of the actual data. The costs and cost per second of all units without the bonus is a whole number generally, so even the bonus of 0.00001 mass less per second will display as 1 mass less per second due to flooring. This misled people like Ingach and many top players to believe that Tech 1 Mass Extractors and Tech 1 Mass Fabricator gave a flat bonus of 1 mass per second less cost in adjacent factories. If you look at replays there is a cybran player who was making a single mass fabricator next to each factory for this precise reason. This is of course false.
Bonuses are % based and are constant for full adjacency for all types of buildings in the center
What is full adjacency. Full adjacency is the term I use when the building in question is occuppying all the adjacent spots of target building and it all connects. For instance: Factory with 16 Tech 1 Power Generators gets the full adjacency bonus of Tech 1 Power Generator. Mass Extractor with 4 Tech 1 Power Generators gets the full adjacency bonus. Or Tech 3 Mass Fabricator with 4 Tech 3 Power Generators in Windmill around it gets full adjacency bonus of Tech 3 Power Generator. I hope this explains the concept.
It turns out, that full adjacency bonuses are constant for each building regardless of what you put in the center. The bonus of a single building varies though based on how many it takes to fill up all the spots.
It also needs to be said that you can't acieve full adjacency with 3x3 footprint building when putting them around 4x4 footprint building. Only 4 buildings connect and those don't fill up the spots, so I can't get you the details on that one.
3. The Numbers
Tech 1 Power Generator
Full adjacency bonus: 25% less energy spent Works with: Any power consumer Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Hydrocarbon Power Plant[/size] Full adjacency bonus: 50% less energy spent Works with: Any power consumer Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Tech 2 Power Generator Full adjacency bonus: 50% less energy spent Works with: Any power consumer Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Tech 3 Power Generator Full adjacency bonus: 75% less energy spent Works with: Any power consumer Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Tech 1 Mass Storage Full adjacency bonus: 50% Works with: Any mass producer Tested: on Mass Extractors, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Tech 1 Energy Storage Full adjacency bonus: 50% Works with: Any energy producer Tested: on all generators
Tech 1 Mass Fabricator Full adjacency bonus: 10% Works with: Any mass consumer Tested: on factories
Tech 1 Mass Extractor Single adjacency bonus: 2.5% Works with: Any mass consumer Tested: 129 Tech 3 air factories adjacent to 1 mass extractor producing Tech 3 engineers at the same time
Tech 2 Mass Extractor Single adjacency bonus: 3.75% Works with: Any mass consumer Tested: 129 Tech 3 air factories adjacent to 1 mass extractor producing Tech 3 engineers at the same time
Tech 3 Mass Extractor Single adjacency bonus: 5% Works with: Any mass consumer Tested: 129 Tech 3 air factories adjacent to 1 mass extractor producing Tech 3 engineers at the same time
Tech 3 Mass Fabricator Single adjacency bonus: between 1.23% and 1.35%, most likely 1.25% Works with: Any mass consumer Tested: Using 58 Tech 3 air factories
4. Notes
Adjacent mass producer bonuses work even when the mass producer is not running
Apparently even if you turn off Mass Fabricator or Mass Extractor(tested both), the bonus from it still works for the factory.
Watch out when comparing percentages
50% more energy and 50% less energy spent is not the same. If you boost 2 power generators by 50% they will produce the energy of 3 normal ones. If you decrease drain of 2 mass fabricators by 50% you will be able to use 4 such fabricators with same energy drain.
Sometimes cost to set up a perfect combination is too high
Surrounding your mass extractors with mass storage costs as much as 3 factories. Energy storage is even more expensive. Storages don't do anything by themselves even though their bonuses are high, so understand this when deciding.
Will do an article on how to use this when I'll have some time
Hydrocarbon power plant bonus is mostly informative
Currently no official map supports placing 4 hydrocarbon plants next to a building, so the percentage is mostly informative in nature.
Some power consumers won't connect
Some power consumers like aeon shields and aeon stealth field generator won't connect to power generators, but their cybran counterparts will. I am too lazy to compile a complete list.
This post has been edited by Spura: Jan 14 2007, 12:42 PM
I must say you've put alot of effort into this and it's presented very well. You could make it easier for the less mathmatically inclined people and just say the integer, oh wait thats possibly more mathmatically oriented. This also corresponds to my theories quiet well. I never really believed the stuff that 1 Storage gave x bonus while 2 gave ~2x bonus. Just didn't fit with a logical progression. Anyway, one of the Discussion Mods should sticky this, I'll make sure one does cause I think this is a great guide and explains everything very simply.
i think the only difference between the other factions would be w/ sheilds, I know there is no adjacency bonus for Aeon sheilds, possibly Cybran as well.
Never fully tested that aspect. TA was the same way but in TA they would at least show you one decimal place and they rounded instead of floored (core lvl 1 kbot cons produced .25 metal per tick but the display was rounded to .3).
I think CT could stand to show us one or two decimal places to reduce confusion.
This post has been edited by FFAxDeadLegion: Nov 28 2006, 17:09 PM
Full adjacency bonus: 25% less energy spent Works with: Any power consumer Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Let me get this right. If you surround a factory with T1 Power Gens, it will use 25% less energy for all the units it makes? Then if you surround only one side of the factory with T1 Power Gens, it uses 6.25% less energy for the units it produces?
Full adjacency bonus: 25% less energy spent Works with: Any power consumer Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc.. Let me get this right. If you surround a factory with T1 Power Gens, it will use 25% less energy for all the units it makes? Then if you surround only one side of the factory with T1 Power Gens, it uses 6.25% less energy for the units it produces?
Nothing if I got it right lol I think he just wants to know what's most effective in each situation, which would probably be in the second part of your article. At first glance it seems the metal makers bonus working while off it's quite exploitive, they should fix this before release.
Hurray for being goofy and uninformed. Hey, I wasn't completely wrong. Only in regards to mass / energy connected to factories, which I didn't do too much experimentation with. Guess I need to finish my calculus class ^^
Hurray for being goofy and uninformed. Hey, I wasn't completely wrong. Only in regards to mass / energy connected to factories, which I didn't do too much experimentation with. Guess I need to finish my calculus class ^^
Well you weren't the numbers were. Designers like nice and uncomplicated systems. The whole idea that some building would give 3 energy or 2 energy bonus depending on number of same buildings around factory just smells wrong.
Also the idea of flat bonuses also smells wrong. - For instance air scout costs 13(-0) or somthing in unit descrition. So how is drain -0 yet the whole unit costs mass? This was plain wrong. - Making mass free interceptors would be exploititive - Also T2 and T3 factories build faster so you would be discouraged to upgrade, because the flat bonus becomes less effective in T2 and T3 factories as drain is bigger and -1 reduction becomes a smaller %.
All these facts and illogicalities are pointing toward things being different than it seems at first glance.
Well you weren't the numbers were. Designers like nice and uncomplicated systems. The whole idea that some building would give 3 energy or 2 energy bonus depending on number of same buildings around factory just smells wrong.
Also the idea of flat bonuses also smells wrong. - For instance air scout costs 13(-0) or somthing in unit descrition. So how is drain -0 yet the whole unit costs mass? This was plain wrong. - Making mass free interceptors would be exploititive - Also T2 and T3 factories build faster so you would be discouraged to upgrade, because the flat bonus becomes less effective in T2 and T3 factories as drain is bigger and -1 reduction becomes a smaller %.
All these facts and illogicalities are pointing toward things being different than it seems at first glance.
Yeah, I made my calculations based on the data I had collected, which was obviously skewed. The rounding off killed me.
The adjacency bonus's aren't comulative meaning that they don't each give a set bonus, they lower (least in my experience) the more you have and I believe each factory has a Cap of how much it can be reduced and I think the cap changed with different Tech Buildings. Just remember this isn't a completely known topic and this is in my opinion a great way of expressing what we knw about it. Besides alot of programs deal with floored values, cause it appears alot nicer instead of numbers such as 10.294 or 0.9992 etc.
Not that hard, just time consuming. For mass where bonuses are really small, you just build a bunch of same buildings with same things adjacent and test.
For instance building 30 factories each near a mass extractor will give you a good number.
So I was sitting here in my boxers like I always do and reading up on Adjacency Bonuses in Ingach's topic. The article looked goofy and uninformed. Why would GPG put some elaborate bonus system in place that would make Tech 1 Power Generator have 3% bonus next to one building and less around some other building? Or saying that first 3 mass storages around Tech 1 Metal Extractors do nothing but the fourth gives +1 mass. Why would GPG make system with such exceptions? And on top of that he used absolute values instead of relative ones. He claimed Tech 1 Air Factory producing and interceptor is draining 0 mass if it is adjacent to a mass extractor.
This is completely FALSE.
2. The Proof and The Concepts
I went out and made 133 air factories, each adjacent to exactly 1 extractor. Then I started production of interceptors in all of them.
According to Ingach's spreadsheets I would be making them for free in all factories. Not so.
They all claimed to be draining 0 mass but my mass income dropped for almost the full 133.
- Mass and Energy values are floating point(decimal) numbers
- Mass and Energy values are floored before being displayed on User Interface
- Bonuses are % based and are constant for full adjacency for all types of buildings in the center
3. The NumbersAll the mass and energy income in game as well as all the drain is kept in floating point form(decimal numbers). But since displaying that the factory making interceptor was draining 0.975 mass when next to mass extractor looks crappy on User Interface, the GPG rounds numbers for user interface. Which brings me to next concept:
Flooring is a type of rounding where decimal numbers are removed and so we get whole number. For instance if we floor 0.975 we get 0. In Sup comm everything you see in user interface is floored version of the actual data.
The costs and cost per second of all units without the bonus is a whole number generally, so even the bonus of 0.00001 mass less per second will display as 1 mass less per second due to flooring.
This misled people like Ingach and many top players to believe that Tech 1 Mass Extractors and Tech 1 Mass Fabricator gave a flat bonus of 1 mass per second less cost in adjacent factories. If you look at replays there is a cybran player who was making a single mass fabricator next to each factory for this precise reason. This is of course false.
What is full adjacency. Full adjacency is the term I use when the building in question is occuppying all the adjacent spots of target building and it all connects.
For instance: Factory with 16 Tech 1 Power Generators gets the full adjacency bonus of Tech 1 Power Generator. Mass Extractor with 4 Tech 1 Power Generators gets the full adjacency bonus. Or Tech 3 Mass Fabricator with 4 Tech 3 Power Generators in Windmill around it gets full adjacency bonus of Tech 3 Power Generator. I hope this explains the concept.
It turns out, that full adjacency bonuses are constant for each building regardless of what you put in the center. The bonus of a single building varies though based on how many it takes to fill up all the spots.
It also needs to be said that you can't acieve full adjacency with 3x3 footprint building when putting them around 4x4 footprint building. Only 4 buildings connect and those don't fill up the spots, so I can't get you the details on that one.
- Tech 1 Power Generator
- Hydrocarbon Power Plant[/size]
- Tech 2 Power Generator
- Tech 3 Power Generator
- Tech 1 Mass Storage
- Tech 1 Energy Storage
- Tech 1 Mass Fabricator
- Tech 1 Mass Extractor
- Tech 2 Mass Extractor
- Tech 3 Mass Extractor
- Tech 3 Mass Fabricator
4. NotesFull adjacency bonus: 25% less energy spent
Works with: Any power consumer
Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Full adjacency bonus: 50% less energy spent
Works with: Any power consumer
Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Full adjacency bonus: 50% less energy spent
Works with: Any power consumer
Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Full adjacency bonus: 75% less energy spent
Works with: Any power consumer
Tested: on Shields, Stealth gen, Factories, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Full adjacency bonus: 50%
Works with: Any mass producer
Tested: on Mass Extractors, Mass Fabricators, etc..
Full adjacency bonus: 50%
Works with: Any energy producer
Tested: on all generators
Full adjacency bonus: 10%
Works with: Any mass consumer
Tested: on factories
Single adjacency bonus: 2.5%
Works with: Any mass consumer
Tested: 129 Tech 3 air factories adjacent to 1 mass extractor producing Tech 3 engineers at the same time
Single adjacency bonus: 3.75%
Works with: Any mass consumer
Tested: 129 Tech 3 air factories adjacent to 1 mass extractor producing Tech 3 engineers at the same time
Single adjacency bonus: 5%
Works with: Any mass consumer
Tested: 129 Tech 3 air factories adjacent to 1 mass extractor producing Tech 3 engineers at the same time
Single adjacency bonus: between 1.23% and 1.35%, most likely 1.25%
Works with: Any mass consumer
Tested: Using 58 Tech 3 air factories
Apparently even if you turn off Mass Fabricator or Mass Extractor(tested both), the bonus from it still works for the factory.
50% more energy and 50% less energy spent is not the same. If you boost 2 power generators by 50% they will produce the energy of 3 normal ones. If you decrease drain of 2 mass fabricators by 50% you will be able to use 4 such fabricators with same energy drain.
Surrounding your mass extractors with mass storage costs as much as 3 factories. Energy storage is even more expensive. Storages don't do anything by themselves even though their bonuses are high, so understand this when deciding.
Currently no official map supports placing 4 hydrocarbon plants next to a building, so the percentage is mostly informative in nature.
Some power consumers like aeon shields and aeon stealth field generator won't connect to power generators, but their cybran counterparts will. I am too lazy to compile a complete list.
This post has been edited by Spura: Jan 14 2007, 12:42 PM
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