Company of Heroes

When .5 came out i tried to do a defensive strategy with T2-T4. The recurring problem was that i always felt rushed to get to T4, and my T2 suffered because i was using tons of manpower for techs that didnt immediately show results on the battlefield. I also couldn't get many veteran upgrades because i was using all the fuel and manpower to tech up. Due to the lack of veteran upgrades, crocs really tore up my weak gren squads--especially if they had BARs in support.

So ive adopted a new T2 strategy utilizing the terror doctrine. Im sure others use variations of this, i just havent seen anyone really write it up. My B/O is 2 pios, 2 volks, and 2 MGs for T1. In T2 i build 2 grens, 1-2 paks, a halftrack, and a mortar if necessary. I buy these in different orders depending on what my enemy has. Once i have 2 grens on the field, i build a KKC and fully upgrade my infantry from about the 12 minute mark to the 17 minute mark. At some point tech up to T3 solely for the LMG. Its INSANE if you have vet 3 LMG grens in high cover with inspired assault. The only downside is that its 9 CPs till a tiger instead of 8, but it almost makes up for itself because of the fact that inspired assault yields so much experience.

The tactics of the strategy is what really shines. Zeal + inspired assault yields a very impressive punch. I generally get zeal first because im saving my munitions for shreks anyway. When i get inspired assault unlocked, it basically means i win every single battle i use it in. The ability lasts a very long time, and if a halftrack (particularly one with a pioneer gunner in it) is nearby, its almost impossible to win an infantry battle as allies. You can have 2-3 rifle squads rush a volks squad. Turn on inspired assault, hurt them as they come. Retreat into a halftrack and cover, and send any nearby infantry to help. The battle will be yours quickly, he will retreat badly hurt rifleman, and you DONT retreat because you have a halftrack.

This strategy works well against any allied strategy with proper adjustment. Above i explained how i defeat rifle spam. If he goes WSC, its important to have one less volks squad and a sniper from the T1 production. If he has a sniper, make a bike as well. Then, my first T2 unit would likely be a mortar followed by a gren squad to take down a quick quad or M8. If he quickly OPed his fuel point, consider getting a pak before your first veteran upgrade, and a second one at some point.

To see what im talking about, here are two replays in Semois using this strategy. One of them is against a very good player, and the sheer amount of rifleman that died show how powerful this strategy is.

	vs_spawn67.rec
	Size: 326.49k
	Number of downloads: 120
	Player Name	Side	Team
	Spawn67		1
	Santa		2

	vs_adder06.rec
	Size: 308.47k
	Number of downloads: 84
	Player Name	Side	Team
	Adder06		1
	Santa		2

This post has been edited by Santa1111: Mar 9 2007, 23:24 PM

Which one would you say is the better rp?

Hard to say. The first one was closer fought, the second one was less so. As far as showing the strategy, both do it equally well.

You know Santa, I think this strategy could very well be what axis needs right now. I have noticed in my games that the LMG does do significant damage to rifles, and grenadiers with veterancy and a halftrack nearby aren't likely to die. The only flaw I could see is the time it takes to get the veterancy, and the munitions it takes to upgrade each grenadier squad with the LMG and a shrek. Do you OP the high munitions generally, or a medium munition point?

Can a single gren squad take out an early ht or m8?

If they are in heavy cover and the only thing around is a HT or an M8, they could probably take care of it with a shrek. Of course, a good allied player will likely have rifleman at the front with the HT or M8 in support. So if you can setup a MG to suppress the rifleman, the grens to take on the light armor, and maybe a PAK for good measure, youll be good. Combined infantry FTW

If all you have is one gren squad with one shrek and he has light armor out, its gonna be a rough few minutes though. He can simply avoid that gren squad and deal a ton of damage wherever the shrek isnt.

As for munitions gol, it really wasnt too much of a problem and i never even OPed a munitions point. Instead of getting veterancy for the support units (i just wanted to see what they do with veterancy), OPing munitions points is a great use of that manpower.

This post has been edited by Santa1111: Mar 10 2007, 03:10 AM

I watched the first replay, but honestly the allies player didn't know what he was doing at all. Getting a m10 against tier 2 with only a halftrack? Never going WSC? Charging tanks/vehicles into positions with known AT guns?

If he had played better I'm not sure how effective the strategy would've been, the last fight up near the high munition point was lost by you even though you had the triple vet grens in heavy cover with inspired assault on. A couple different times you would hit inspired assault, get pinned, then get naded and have to retreat.

I'd love to see this in action against a better allied player though, I really like the concept.

I totally agree that this should be used against better players. Im a very inconsistent player, as in my micro is sometimes really on and sometimes really off. So i would love it if some top 10 axis players adopted this if for nothing else than to test it in some basic matches against other high ranking allied players.

The last fight near the high munitions i thought went very well for me. If i remember correctly, i had a full gren squad and a 2 man gren squad in green cover. Those 6 guys held off 2 BAR rifleman squads, half an airborne squad and another full health airborne squad that dropped in. That was 21 guys vs my 6. Both of my squads retreated at one man, and all he had left were nil health squads with no firepower left. Yeah he "won" that battle, but it was certainly Pyhrric.

The pinning and getting naded is a problem, but i think its a problem with any strategy. Better micro and attacking rifleman from opposite directions rectifies that.

it's a pritty sweet strat, but would like to see you use it in agonville with a halftrack and m8 rusher..

Only watched the second and the guy you were playing suicided a huge number of units. I don't think he even got bar and had a nice mass of rifle squads most the game. Would have helped more then the too-late croc I suspect.

I'll try it out none the less.

edit: Tried it out on lowlands against an airborne player. Worked pretty good, just held him off/traded a few caps until I got my tiger and gg. Guy was decent, and made good use of his units (mortars/snipers/rifle/m8/croc/drops). I think I would have won much sooner had I gone for faster tanks instead of the vet upgrades. I just wish Veterancy would increase survivability in a bombing/staffing run. His first run targeting 3 level 3 squads managed to kill every last one as I was crossing the river.

This post has been edited by Ravage Savage: Mar 12 2007, 05:31 AM

Nice strat. You'll have problems with mass tanks though, like 2 shermans and a croc. Also pershings will kill you. Paks do virtually nothing to pershings and it takes forever to shreck a pershing to death. 2 pershings will just own the shit out of a teir 2 army, vetted or not. I have a similar strat but i combine the infantry with 88s for tank defence.
Do you really need the lmgs? I mean your going to own all allied infantry anyway. Personally I would use the muntions for mines to slow down tanks so you can shreck 'em.
Nice IA use.

Also if your going to have a couple of gren sqauds then definately get yourself a medic bunker.

This post has been edited by Neilius: Mar 12 2007, 05:30 AM

lol, tanks is not a problem, shrecks pwn pershing by the time he has a pershing I have like 10 shrecks and mined every exit, and if a allied goes armourd company on this tactic his stupid.

Ya medic bunker helps alot. it takes like 15 min and you'll have the whole map = LOTS of munition. A guy tryed to counter me with a pershing with HEAVY support by riflemen i just used propaganda on them and sent the pershing back to the stone age with "For the father land".

10 shrecks? Anyone who lets you get 10 shrecks has lost already.
Whole map control by 15mins? How exactly is that achieved? Sounds as if you were playing some newbie.

Hah, the irony.

My thoughts from the game:
Having never actually faced T2 grens (I started playing CoH when the T1->T3 strat was most popular) I didn't even realize what was going on. I didn't even realize I was losing until the last few minutes.

If I were to replay this I think it would be -much- closer. It had the unique advantage against me in that I had never seen it before. I thought for sure you were going T1->T2->T3. WSC and BARs would have served me better than the tank depot, especially because I think I built a sherman believing that you had armor coming.

One of my games trying a variant of this strat:
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index...howtopic=207779

My thoughts about the strat:
After you beat me with this, I immediately tried this strat for about 10 axis games straight (and won every one of them). Things I want to point out:

-It's very munitions heavy. I would consider that the weakest part of this strat. If I were to play this again, I would fight extremely hard for the munitions specifically. Even L3 grens aren't enough to take down a croc if they don't have the munitions to get schreks.

-It is much tougher IMO to pull this off in a more open map with less cover/buildings, like angoville.

-This is the best strat I know of to take on fast quad.

***************

To anyone who says do this with defensive doctrine, I just have to say... what the hell? One of the keys to defensive doctrine, registered artillery, eats up your already low munitions. For the fatherland is nice, but inspired assault and zeal are much better. The halftrack allows you to move your troops quickly to defend, so advance warning isn't as necessary.

This post has been edited by Adder06: Mar 12 2007, 18:15 PM

I just think saying "if a allied goes armourd company on this tactic his stupid" is just... stupid? I mean most people pick their company long before you could figure out exactly what their plans are and even so I'll bet anyone who is decent with armor will give a good fight, win or lose.

Edit:

Just played a game againts a guy who tells me to stfu after I say gl hf start of the game. Oddly enough him saying that made me instantly think "quad rush" as it seems fitting since a guy like this will probably want a quick win so he can say things like "gg leave nub". Sure enough he tries a quad/raid strat (very obvious and poorly executed) but I counter with vet/tier2/terror.

This post has been edited by Ravage Savage: Mar 13 2007, 03:52 AM

Na it was acctualy a top 25 player, he went with HT/m8 rush but that failed because i already placed an pak, that so he drove thru the church the HT got owned. And he made the stupid mistabe by driving his m8 to my base to place a mine, i had an pak just outside my barack, so he was circling around it. I just aimit it to the exit of my base. So when i retreated my grens (with 1 shreck) he retreated his m8 my pak got his engine and then my grens just cleaned up the rest.

by then it was like 22 mins gone, so i took back the map and reinforced, he tried to make a great comeback with 2 crocs but by then i already had 2 pak aiming 3 grens with shreck at lvl 3 and enough for " for the father land".

Sry that i don't have a replay forgot to save it

So your talking about one game you had? We a talking about a strategy in this thread and one game doesn't prove anything. My original comments about this strategy still stand.

One other thing that you should know Santa is that vet 2+ actually makes grenadiers more suseptable to flame weapons. I have know idea why.



This post has been edited by Neilius: Mar 13 2007, 10:10 AM

well it was just an example ?

Anyways it's a good strat but mostly for skilled players because it's alot of stress.

I tried this out last night, it worked against a crock spammer. However, it failed on Lowlands because the dam map is so wide, you just can't gain enough mobility to keep up with the allies player.

ya very hard on that map, so i just stick with storms because they can camo in the woods