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# 1(EF)UBER_n00b Jul 15 2007, 11:34 AM
Piospam, I was pwned by it and now I pwn with it.

Everybody knows the basics of this strat but what I want to ask here is if there is any way for the allies to counter this strat and thus how would the piospammer react to wrest control of the game back in their favor?

BTW BURN BURN BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! drol.gif

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# 2BoboDaHobo Jul 15 2007, 14:58 PM
A single pioneer costs 60 MP to buy and 30 MP to reinforce. A rifleman costs 45 MP to buy and 22 MP to reinforce. It's pretty obvious that if the allied player keeps his shit together, he is gonna win the spam war long term, even though he is 160 MP behind from the start ( due the the barracks). All successful piospam I have seen so far rely on allied making a mistake with the first couple of riflemen, not staying together, losing squads, etc.

Someone needs to sit down and calculate the DPS on Pioneers vs Rifles and vice versa, and the health on them. If the rifle has more DPS and more health, then it's a done deal. Rifles are better. If Pios somehow have sick DPS & health then maybe they are better.

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# 3TheSn1p3r Jul 16 2007, 00:27 AM
we all know how bad automatic weapons are against garrasoned buildings right, the middle of semois is the perfect example.( im talking the 1st crucial engagement) Stick either the 1 or 2 rifles( depending on what's there obviously) in a building and it'll hold it's own long enough to either make the pios move somewhere else, or stay there and try to kill them while you bring in another rifle squad to reinforce and be put into the same/another but close building. and they can just sit back and shoot the pios until they retreat.

Of course, a little later, they'll be flamer pios in the mix as well but this is for the 1st crucial fight which really determines the map control.

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# 4Snevet Jul 16 2007, 03:24 AM
Snipers > piospam

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# 5TheFloyd Jul 16 2007, 10:59 AM
QUOTE(Snevet @ Jul 16 2007, 05:24 AM) *

Snipers > piospam


Most players start with barracks, you don't know piospam is going to happen. So you won't have snipers.

But even if you did, there will be 5 pio squads out before the first allied sniper comes into play. 5 pio squads will rush and kill the sniper.

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# 6Yojimbo252 Jul 16 2007, 14:11 PM
sorry but i just cant see how pio spam can be effective on semois. one of the main principles of the tactic is to deny allies fuel for as long as possible because early T3 vehicles will stop the swarm dead in it's tracks. the prob with semois is it's impossible to cut their med fuel as the sector is adjacent to the base sector. additionally decapping the fuel point is very difficult as any allied units covering the fuel point will have a longer range than the pios and will be covered by their base bunker.

the only way i can possibly see it working is if you manage to decap the fuel, link up to the sector and build an mg bunker to prevent them from retaking it. but even this will be temporary as as soon as they get a wsc up they can mortar your bunker and an allied mg will prevent it from being decapped again.

also as a previous poster mentions, untils pios get flamers it's very difficult to dislodge riflemen from buildings. if the allies place a rifle squad in either of the 2 buildings covering the high ammos it'll take alot of pios to force them out. they may get them out eventually but the question is how long will they tie you up and how soon afterwards will the vehicles arrive.

lastly it's pretty common for an allied player to get nades with rifle spam on semois. i dont think you can realistically prevent the allies from getting 40 fuel on this map and with the amount of ammo available, med ammo next to base guaranteed, i'd think nades in the middle of massed pios would lay some serious hurt.

having said that if you've got a replay of the tactic working on semois against a competent allied player i'll keep an open mind and take a look.

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# 7WasteActivatedSludge Jul 16 2007, 14:52 PM
Not for nothing, but If I notice that my opponent built more than 5 pio teams I think I'd be clued in to what they were doing and build a WSC right away. And if they aren't doing a pio spam they are just noobish and a WSC wouldn't hurt me anyway. A few MG's supported by rfiles to prevent flanking will stop that shit cold. Depending on the map I build a WSC after the first 3 rifles anyway so it's not a big change in meta game for me, or most people I would imagine. The only difference being angoville where you can play competitively at a high level without a WSC until maybe late in the game to secure your positions.

Edit for Semois: when you clear some space with mg's, mine the hell out of all the entrance points = bunch of dead pio's.

I also don't have a replay to watch to see what this particular pio spam is like. Is it pure piospam with flamers, bunkers involved, teching up to tier 2 or three, doctrine choice?

This post has been edited by WasteActivatedSludge: Jul 16 2007, 14:58 PM

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# 8darkflamexbonedogx Jul 16 2007, 15:01 PM
bobo, you forgot about veterancy in your calculations. Quick double vetting your pios (takes about 5 min. on semois), gives you an easy manpower advantage, good enough to take and hold his fuel before he can get the quad cal out there. Haven't played anyone "great" on semois, but I'll post a replay when I do.

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# 9Borrish Jul 16 2007, 22:28 PM
This really doesn't seem like that great a tactic to me. It seems to rely on your oppoenent underestimating the tactic and spreading his forces too much. If you keep your forces together like you normally would it's easy to keep at least 50 / 50 map control, in which case you could just rush a quad out which would probably flatten them. Plus if you get grenades surely that's going to be messy for the Axis player...

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# 10(EF)UBER_n00b Jul 17 2007, 10:07 AM
Basically this strat relies on a fair bit of shock value but its also a pretty good strat on its own as it all relies on the fact that you will have vet 2 pios with about 3-4 flamers running around the map in a pack burning the living shit through any infantry they come across. I beleive that this strat can really only be done on Semois as there are no High fuels and each side gets only one fuel point. This strat is fairly munitions heavy and works with blitz as you need Storms for AT.

I will now outline MY version of the strat as some people seem to have misunderstood me.

Basic build 5-6 pio squads all capping points like mad. You should have enough spare manpower to OP your fuel in the 2nd minute of the game and thus protect it from raids. After Fuel protection (For Vet and Tech to T2) t\Munitions are the next Highest priority and these should be OP'ed as soon as possible. After you have 30 fuel spare build a KKC and thats all the base structures you will need

Once this has all been done the allies will have probably figured out what you are doing and attempt to go WSC to counter, I find that this rarely works as MG buildings and positions can be flanked and flamed (Which BTW you should have about 3-4 flammenwerfers by now+vet 1) and snipers can be rushed . The only problem is THE CHURCH as there is not much that can harm units inside of it so your best bet would be to either A:Wire it off, B:Mine it or C:(This is only for sadists like myself) burn it to the ground with all your flamers that might be sitting around doing nothing. n another note, bunkers are handy for this strat But not completely necessary. Wire and Sandbags are also handy.

Usually by this time the allied player will have realized that the only way to beat the now All flamers and usually vet 3 pios will be to get armour or even just quads onto the field quickly. The only problem with this is that in total a motorpool (lowest cost armour) is still over 100 Fuel to make both the structure and the vehicle by this time however you should have about 6 double vet pio squads and 2 storm sqauds with shrecks. These should be far more than enough to take down anything short of a croc or insanely fast Calliope.


Basically my strat revolves around pure piospam with fast OP's and very fast veterancy for the early and mid game so you can absolutely burn his infantry to the ground without fear of opposition. This strat sucks up munitions like nothing else and needs 50 munitions within the second minute so you can stand a chance against his infantry. With this you will likely win the first few engagements and send his infantry packing. This will give you time to wire and OP like nothing else and keep your opponent from raiding and capping your points. Once he realises what you are doing he will either try for fast motorpool or WSC. Either of these can be countered with a combo of vet 2 flamer pios and Storms with shrecks.

The vulnerabilities of this strat are that if he gets enough munitions for a strafing run(unlikely as you will have a munitions monopoly) as all of your infantry will be traveling around in one massive mob to prevent effectiveness of BARS. Another possible vulnerability is MG nests but these are usually flankable and if not this puts his teching back a fair bit allowing you to have AT capability and veterancy that much quicker.

This strat only works with blitz as there is no need for base buildings and triple vet storms are extremely nasty. ONce the StuH comes onto the field its pretty much GG but even if he has spammed AT(VERY unlikely) you will win by VP's soon enough.

A forward barracks might be helpful but I have not tried it so I don't know how effective it might be.

Thats all for now. I hoped you guys will have a look at this strat and maybe point out any issues with it.

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# 11Yojimbo252 Jul 17 2007, 10:36 AM
ok, i think it's time for a replay against a competent allied player so we can see this strat in action as capping and OP'ing order is going to be pretty important and i'm interested to see how you deal with rifles with nades and flushing rifles out of buildings during the period you dont have flamers.

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# 12TheFloyd Jul 17 2007, 12:34 PM
Nice strat and I tried it against Nuvion (one of his smurf accounts).

He went for rifles and in the beginning kept them in the nabourhood of buildings. Each time I came in, he hopped into the buildings and I couldn't do anything with the pioneers since they didn't have flamers yet.
Kept on capping ofcourse but in notime he had bars and gg

I guess I tried to attack his infantry too soon. Maybe I should of capped more points before doing that.

If you've lost the first encounter, you've lost the game I think.

So a replay would help.

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# 13darkflamexbonedogx Jul 17 2007, 13:17 PM
Here's the strat in action against a good player, chi3f. It's not on Semois, but hopefully it will help. I've beaten many a level 10+ with this, but this guy's the best.


Attached File(s)
Attached File darkflamevschief.rec
Size: 287.28k
Number of downloads: 143
Player Name Side Team
chi3f 1
darkflameXbonedogX 2

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# 14Yojimbo252 Jul 17 2007, 15:54 PM
yeah i watched that replay on the weekend and you play a really nice game. i can see the strengths of the strat on ango.

but on semois?

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# 15chal00pa Jul 17 2007, 23:19 PM
yes i am find builder and firesoldure much strenght hard winnings.

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index...howtopic=260886

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# 16darkflamexbonedogx Jul 18 2007, 00:11 AM
I actually like BL second best, Sturzdorf 3rd best, and Semois least with this strat. The key is, of course, to hold the ammo from the beginning. I think a medic bunker may be a good idea too. I'll send a good replay when I get one (may be a while)...

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# 17(EF)UBER_n00b Jul 18 2007, 07:38 AM
As my level is only a puny LVL 6 I dont think that any players That I am up against would count as competent so that excludes most of my replays.

The reason why I dont like this strat on Ango or Sturz is that there are 16+Fuel points there and it is especially hard on Ango to stop him from capping just one of the fuel points and probably OP'ing it for ultra fast tech

This post has been edited by (EF)UBER_n00b: Jul 18 2007, 07:40 AM

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# 18Yojimbo252 Jul 18 2007, 07:57 AM
QUOTE((EF)UBER_n00b @ Jul 18 2007, 08:38 AM) *

As my level is only a puny LVL 6 I dont think that any players That I am up against would count as competent so that excludes most of my replays.


i wouldn't want to discourage anyone from posting a strat and replay to support it whatever their level. so my definition of competent is simply someone that understands the game and knows how to play. level 6 is more than adequate, i'm only an average player myself.

so if you can find a replay of this strat against an allied player who you felt was on par with yourself then i'm more than happy to take a look at it and the merits of this strat on semois.

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# 19Riisto Jul 18 2007, 11:51 AM
I tried it unranked against potent adversary.
Haven't played any games in two weeks.

OP
-Way too easy to execute.
-Doesn't need any skill.
-Doesn't need any micro.

Use your resources as you get them:
-Pop pios
-Pop flamer
-Pop KKC
-Pop inf vet
-Pop storms
-Pop HQ upgrades if needed
-Pop tank vet
-Pop StuH
-Pop Tiger
--------------
Goodnight

My game ended before I got to StuH...


Attached File(s)
Attached File piospam.rec
Size: 181.98k
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Player Name Side Team
MG42goodbnana 1
S0litude 2

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# 20Yojimbo252 Jul 18 2007, 14:26 PM
still waiting for a replay on semois whistling.gif

j/k tongue.gif

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