BfME2 BT2DC

If you think thats bad wait til u get into Advanced Calculus. Implicit functions, Anti-differentiation, Change of Variables, Partial Differentiation,Power Series, Infinite Limits. List goes on..

Regardless of whether your lecturer is english or speaking fucking wongtongchi language, you'll still walk out of the lecture theatre wondering what the fuck just happened.

I still remember the feeling, its as if some1 has done a big droopy piss all over your back and you have no idea where it came from

Who gives a shit if Boro's OP or not if we have maths problems?

Lorien Warriors are 400 and *can't* protect your Lorien Archers, unlike Mithlonds, who you'll be able to continually use in multiple purposes. Mithlonds are far more useful than LW in this MU, and therefore you'll have more of them out on the field. Now using the logic you need Lorien Swords to counter heroes, you're forced to build a completely separate unit to counter the now put out hero with Hero Armor.

To not apply practical situations and be idiotic and have a 1v1 situation is retarded. As I've pointed out with Mordor countering heroes, I would *not* build corsairs if Boromir had HeroArmor. Why? Because then I could spam out more easterlings if he was countered by specialist, which I *already* would be doing because they are used in various, various uses, where swordsmen aren't as much. So now I have to force a tradeoff of one unit to use another. So what does it do? It promotes unit mixing, yes, but does it limit my army at the same time? Yes. I'm not saying that this entire concept of promoting unit mixing is bad, I'm merely saying it nonetheless remains the best armorclass vs *almost* all factions, as I've STILL managed to point out that ToughHeroArmor is *slightly* better than HeroArmor in ONE MU. So Conch before you go on telling me how I'm blatantly wrong, why don't you go apply it to practical concepts and then throw out an argument before going out with a 1v1 scenario.

Honestly everyone stop fucking quoting yourself in topics, I'm tempted to stop responding at all to any of your shit

Oh really catspaw? Too bad I ran my nazgul into a 250 cost sword unit, a unit that cavalry is supposed to run into if left open and unguarded by a proper counter, PIKES. There were NO PIKES anywhere NEAR his units, and you say that I shouldn't be able to run my CAVALRY TYPE unit into it? Yes, clearly that's balance. And just so you know, it's irritating to you because your arguments are poorly backed and when I show that with my posts it gets you all up in fits. It helps if you open your mind instead of having it be so biased, trust me. Then you won't make foolish posts and have sarcasm thrown your way.

wrong, ran past the hero, clearly shown on the video, into the soldiers, was knocked back by boromir and slain thereafter. Hence, the only reason the nazgul died was because boromir was in essence a counter to cavalry. Yup, that seems like something totally brilliant to have in a game. This has been discussed forever and isn't going anywhere, it won't be changed because of one reason or another, or maybe it will be, who knows. This discussion isn't going anywhere and flaming from staff members is just plain stupid and degrading to this site. Topic will be locked if it continues

Yeah all these melee infantry counter cavalry so well that they protect the infantry running around with them from getting trampled

retarded tbh

and Peace, ffs stop spamming that 15% bullshit as it has been discussed for several pages in this topic. The fact that it happens AT ALL is stupid, and 15%, the "chances" in the game are very very sketchy and hardly ever work out as intended. ONCE he gets knocked down, unless told to attack something else, boromir will CONTINUE knocking him down.

Personally, I am able to counter a bat of regular cavalry effectively with a leveled up SoG bat + 2 bat of Inn Elves. It is all about abusing the trample slowdown. You know that cav slows down when trampling? If not, I will be so nice and sexy and send you a link to a vidcast I made showing how this works.
This is complete bullshit. Boromir continually knocking down a hero virtually never happens. Knocking down a hero 2 times in a row is nothing more than good luck. Try to do this without units and you will see that I'm right.

Even when it was Fabled who said this, it is completely wrong, like other things Fabled said in this thread. Tough hero armor being "slightly" better vs. Elves is another example. Fabled, did you see how fast Boromir dies to a single LW bat and how long MS do need to kill any hero with tough hero armor? Try and test it with Eowyn, she is one of the weakest tough hero armored heroes in the game (unmounted of course).

This whole topic is ridiculous. Everytime this so called Senior Replay Reviewer loses a game due to his own lack of skill he wants anything and everything being nerfed, and if he is proven wrong he simply closes the topic.

And so you tell me I'm completely wrong as if it's fact. Ok enlighten me on how often you'll have cavalry vs Elves when playing with MOTW. How often? Hmmm? Usually it's your first priority.

Lorien Warriors are 400 and *can't* protect your Lorien Archers, unlike Mithlonds, who you'll be able to continually use in multiple purposes. Mithlonds are far more useful than LW in this MU, and therefore you'll have more of them out on the field. Now using the logic you need Lorien Swords to counter heroes, you're forced to build a completely separate unit to counter the now put out hero with Hero Armor.

Yes Boromir is countered fairly significantly with slash damage. However Knights can easily ride in and protect Boromir, especially with his horn power. Not only this, something you all fail to realize, is that the melee range with pikes is significantly longer than melee range with swords.

Multiple pikemen can attack a hero at the same time, such is not the case with swordsmen (and what I mean is significantly less units). I don't know the exact values, but anyone can tell such, pikemen range is significantly longer thus getting more hits on the enemy.

The only reason tough hero armor seems so viable is simply because ... here it comes ... all the fricken with Tough Hero armor have insane HP values. Concerning the armor values in itself, Aragorn would be semi-invincible if he had HeroArmor. What makes the "Boro/Ara" combo the most significant however is that they have *different* armor values. One is countered by swords, one by pikes, you need both to effectively counter them thus having a significantly mixed army.

For example, Elves would wtfpwn Isen very hard with Haldir early game if he didn't have ToughHeroArmor. It's what keeps him dying easily early game vs pretty much every faction (Dwarves - Phalanx are faster, Isen - best pikes, Mordor - Doesn't use corsairs but does have easterlings out, Goblins - Poison is significantly better vs ToughHeroArmor. The only faction that ToughHeroArmor benefits from is MOTW, and even touching a TG however will virtually kill it because of the insanely high damage output, unlike a hero with HeroArmor running through a Guardian, it wouldn't die near as fast). HeroArmor.

The entire concept that ToughHeroArmor is countered by specialist (which includes the fact that Haradrim lancers own it for Mordor and not heroarmor, as well as Haldir's Golden Arrow, Wormtongue's Backstab or Glorkil/Shelob's poison stringer, and some more as well insignificant factors I'd throw out which don't matter too much), the fact that pikemen are so much more prevaIent on the field than that of swordsmen, makes HeroArmor so much superior. The fact that multiple pikemen can attack where swordsmen can not, the fact that as Elves you'll want multiple Pikes to not only counter Aragorn (which is *just* as effective as LW in this current situation except the fact that LW forces him to fight, [which is EXACTLY why I pointed out why Elrond is arguably the best current 3k hero although everyone else in my honest opinion who posted that speed didn't matter made me feel that they were perhaps some of the most idiotic posters in these entire forums, although I'm not going to bring it up anymore than that] and can flank a retreating hero), but to counter other units as well. Use those LW to counter pikes which you should already have sufficient LA to counter in this situation? So with these multiple pikes on the field, what happens? You have an effective counter to cavalry that are going to swamp your LA if you don't have them, as well as the mounted heroes that roam around. So what happens now with HeroArmor? You are forced to build multiple LW on the field simply because of HeroArmor, which in turn LIMITS Elves. They would have mithlonds *anyways.* They wouldn't have *as many* LW as they would if there wasn't hero armor. Yes the would still have some, but what else are those LW good for midgame? And you'll need multiple as Boromir can use his horn to stun the opponents, target the LW (which yes I do in this situation) and then fight the battle. Now what's going to kill Boromir? He's near immune to the pikes and the archers aren't exactly any more special than ToughHeroArmor would be.

To not apply practical situations and be idiotic and have a 1v1 situation is retarded. As I've pointed out with Mordor countering heroes, I would *not* build corsairs if Boromir had HeroArmor. Why? Because then I could spam out more easterlings if he was countered by specialist, which I *already* would be doing because they are used in various, various uses, where swordsmen aren't as much. So now I have to force a tradeoff of one unit to use another. So what does it do? It promotes unit mixing, yes, but does it limit my army at the same time? Yes. I'm not saying that this entire concept of promoting unit mixing is bad, I'm merely saying it nonetheless remains the best armorclass vs *almost* all factions, as I've STILL managed to point out that ToughHeroArmor is *slightly* better than HeroArmor in ONE MU. So Conch before you go on telling me how I'm blatantly wrong, why don't you go apply it to practical concepts and then throw out an argument before going out with a 1v1 scenario.

^^ too true too true I'm so glad that I'm done with Calc in college
and everyone chill with the flames seriously it accomplishes nothing but make people pissed and less inclined to see your points
Back on topic: I think that Boro is fine by himself but once you add in Ara then things start to get tricky b/c you have to have 2 different units to counter them

[color=#FFCC00]Yes, clearly that's balance. And just so you know, it's irritating to you because your arguments are poorly backed and when I show that with my posts it gets you all up in fits. It helps if you open your mind instead of having it be so biased, trust me. Then you won't make foolish posts and have sarcasm thrown your way.
You have shown nothing of substance in any posts in this topic tbh. You are in fact describing your own behavior, not mine or anybody elses.
There is substance all right. Im going to take my ball and go home. lol
That is simply not true. ITs what you want to believe for the purpose of your argument but it is not true. Any motw player can tell you this. Many times Boro will go off target after the knockback. If another unit attacks him he will switch targets; if there is lag he will switch targets, if ANY power is emploed he will switch targets. Knockback on first swing does NOT mean continuous string of knockbacks. ITs not like he is a troll with guarandgoddamnteed 100% knockback is it?
QFT
This means maddox got it right, basically. Mixing is now required; it WAS the goal of the bt team initially, was it not?
edit; saw your later post. Agree.
Again, this is the whole point

This means maddox got it right, basically. Mixing is now required; it WAS the goal of the bt team initially, was it not?

lmfao

Good. Important first step. Move forward now.

All factions already have a pike spam on the field to counter tough heroes, they typically have little-to-no swordsmen on the field

I chose to keep the next steps to myself as they would have violated site rules. See I just did what I usually do when you are involved in a discussion about Men of the West in a game you are months behind on in balance discussions, and that is, look at it, have a good laugh, and then shake my head and move on to important things in life. So, so you know, when you see that lmfao, that's what I'm doing.

Cheers

As I already said, I know it promotes unit mixing. However you missed my entire point. Unit mixing, although good, does indeed limit your army. Why did people only spam the same unit in 1.04? Because unit mixing had adverse effects on your army. Orcs beat out corsairs and typically easterlings in most situations.

So now what I'm saying is that when Boromir enters the field you need swords. If Boromir didn't enter the field you wouldn't need them as much and therefore could spend your money in other areas. You'd still build swords, simply not as much. However in almost all situations you already have pikemen. And you're consistently in demand of them as they are more versatile and can defend other aspects of your army at the same time. Am I saying it's bad we have this system? No. I'm saying it requires you to unit mix (good thing) however that in itself makes it hte best armorclass. The entire argument stemmed from me debating who had a better armorclass. I'm not even saying Boromir is OP or HeroArmor is OP, I'm saying Hero armor, overall, is the best. And note that I said ToughHeroArmor is indeed better vs Elves but *not* significantly, and all other factions hero armor is superior to ToughHeroArmor.