Kanes Wrath

KW Patch 1.0 Final Notes First Pass

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# 1EA Apoc May 23 2008, 02:11 AM
Hey everyone, let's see this if this thread gets 12,000 views in a week now =)

I hope this patch is a call to action to all players, it's time to come home again...

I have been quiet this week for two primary reasons:

1. I've been hard at work at getting our new RedAlert3.com website up which is now up for you to enjoy, for all you Red Alert comrades out there...and

2. I've been internally working with our team on the Kane's Wrath patch - among a million other things.

Below is our 1st pass at a Final Version of the Kane's Wrath patch balance notes. You'll notice it is extensively longer than my last post because after reviewing your feedback and extensive testing, we've noticed there are a lot of other minor changes that need to happen in order for this to be effective across all 9 factions. Please do not worry about the extent of these changes, and as you'll see below, we've provided explanation for almost every one.

If a sentence is in ITALIACS, that means its an explanation. If it's not, it's likely a change and it should be obvious if so.

Alright, the flood gates are open, time is short for feedback, but we are listening and reading, so please go ahead. I hope you like this list.

We are locking in on completion of the patch and it's currently in the beginning stages of testing, i'll keep you posted, but we're trying to bypass some processes so we can get this to you quicker.

This patch is going to resurge the community, and ignite our ladder season. It's the first step to re-igniting the Tiberium Wars community. I hope you agree, cause it's gonna happen.


Economy revamp:
All refinery values increased to 3000 credits, 30 seconds of build time, and 15 power

--Tiberium Spike cap gain decreased to 500, value per second decreased to 10

--Harvester cost/build time for all factions increased to 2000/20

--Most faction harvester health increased 4000->5000, steel talon/black hand harvester health increased to 5200

--Unit production structures (war factory, airfield) have had their build radius removed, this does not include meta-unit production facilities

--All conyards have had their build radii increased to compensate (360 to 450)

After significant review of the numbers, we found that players under a reduced-speed economy would increase harvester and refinery production to achieve the previous level of income, then transfer the harvester load over to a new expansion and quickly mine it out. The goal of these changes is to produce the same lengthening of the early game that resulted from a change in harvester load, while simultaneously increasing the opportunity cost of increasing the player’s economy at any stage in the game. A short eco boom phase will still occur, due to the nature of tiberium fields, though it will occur later in the game (an inherent buff to scouting and countering tactics) and will be of a smaller magnitude (due to a large portion of the funds being diverted to resource acquisition). The player must now also make a more conscious choice of when to expand, as both the difficulty of expanding and the cost to expand have increased. The gameplay now more closely fits into set phases: buildup/scouting/harassment, unit production, assault, expand, repeat (rather than all options at once). Due to the increased incentive for harassment, cost, and build time of harvesters, harvester health has been increased.


Advanced infantry structures:

--All advanced infantry upgrade centers (stasis chamber, secret shrine, armory) now provide a basic infantry unit when sold or destroyed

This fixes several issues, including cheap ravagers/shock troopers, and reduces the number of available shadow teams in the early game for Nod players.


Other structures:

--Cost of all silos reduced to 100 credits

Go ahead, make a silo!



All GDI:

--GDI Power Plant upgrade now provides 20 power (increase from 10)

--GDI Power Plant cost/build time reduced to 700/7 (from 800/8)

GDI power production and usage are now more closely aligned with the other factions.

--Grenadier range and EMP grenade range increased 240 to 260, grenade speed increased 120 to 180, scatter increased 15-20 versus infantry, blast radius increased 20 to 30

Grenadiers are now more effective at taking out large squads of low-hp infantry.

--Mammoth speed increased 40 to 45

Mammoth tanks can now more easily keep up with an assaulting army

--Packed Rig HP Increased 1500 to 2000, pack and unpack rates reduced to 3s from 5s, repair drone leash distance increased 150 to 200

The Rig can now be more effectively used in combat as it can deploy (more quickly) behind front-line troops and heal them during micromanagement.

--Zone Trooper/Raider autoinjectors health bonus increased 130% to 150%

Upgrade use is now more closely aligned with cost

--Pitbull damage increased 160 to 200, vs. air scalar reduced 200% to 150%

Pitbulls are more closely aligned with bikes and seekers in terms of harassment ability, anti-air attack power remains approximately equivalent


Subfaction-specific:


--ZOCOM and Steel Talons Bloodhound power cost increased to 3000 (from 2k/2.5k)

Bloodhounds no longer allow for cheaper unit production.

--Hardpoint-upgraded firehawk AA missiles now fire as fast as unupgraded missiles

Bug fix, the missile travel speed and firing timing are now aligned with the pre-upgrade speed/timing.

--Titan crush level increased to 3 (only epic units can now crush the mighty titan)

Because Mammoths crushing Titans looks silly.

--Shatterer and Zone Shatterer radius increased 3 to 10, range 250 to 325, pre-attack and clip reload delay reduced to 0.1s from 0.3s

--Zone Shatterer Overload Beam radius increased 4 to 10

Both the Shatterer and Zone Shatterer should now feel significantly more responsive. Both units can now hit opposing unit masses before being hit themselves, though they are still countered harshly by air units and high-hp units such as the Mammoth.

--Titan damage increased 400 to 450, railgun damage increased 572 to 625

The Titan is now, per cost, more closely in line with the Predator Tank.

--Composite armor build time increased to 60 seconds (from 20)

Opposing players can now reach and produce tier2 infantry counters in line with the completion of composite armor.

--Tiberium Field Suits build time and cost increased to 2000/60s from 1000/30s, armor vs cannon increased 6 to 12 for all affected squads

ZOCOM infantry are less resilient to stormriders, shatterers, etc. These changes bring Zocom Field Suits in line with Composite Armor, with additional Tiberium defense.

--ZOCOM Orca weapon damage increased 750 to 1000

The ZOCOM Orca is more effective at destroying large, slow-moving masses of units, providing ZOCOM with a counter to heavy vehicles

--Steel Talon Behemoth acquisition/weapon range increased 500 to 600, hp 5000 to 5500

The Behemoth is now more closely in-line with the Juggernaut and the base GDI late-game units not available to the Steel Talons



All Scrin:

--Lightening spike power cost increased to 1500

This power was incredibly cost-effective, which increased with the economic changes. Cost more closely approximates value.

--Shock Trooper plasma disc and blink pack upgrade numbers swapped, plasma discs are now the more expensive upgrade (1000/30s and 2000/60s)

Upgrades are more closely aligned with relative power and usage.

--Devastator range increased 550 to 625, type changed from cannon to grenade

This change brings the devastator in line with the 1.09TW unit

--Reaper and Traveler Stormrider health normalized to vanilla Scrin 3200 to 2800, all stormrider costs normalized to 1500/15

These units erroneously used older HP values, HP normalized along with cost across all factions

--Seeker armor vs cannon reduced 10% (100 to 110), vs gun reduced 25% (25 to 50)

Seekers no longer cost-effectively defend versus Scorpion tanks and are no longer able to stand toe-to-toe with early game infantry unupgraded

--Disintegrator range increased 100 to 150

Disintegrators are now much more effective at damaging enemy units as the entire squad can now fire at range

--Mechapede disintegrator segment range reduced 300 to 150, damage 135 to 70, corrupter segment range decreased 200 to 150, disc segment changed to anti-air only, range of disc segment increased 300 to 325

The mechapede disintegrator segment now requires that the mechapede get up close and personal, and no longer trumps all anti-vehicle units in terms of damage. Cost-effectiveness brought in-line with the Devourer. Corrupter segment range decreased to make base destruction less effective. Disc segment range increased to increase anti-air effectiveness without necessarily putting the mechapede head into harm’s way. The mechapede is a very powerful anti-air unit.

--Corrupter range 100 to 150, speed 60 to 70

Corrupters now more effectively approach and fire on enemy infantry squads and thus take less in-transit damage. Corrupter healing is slightly easier to micromanage.

--Overlord’s Wrath damage reduced 10000 to 4500

Overlord’s wrath no longer one-shots tier 3 units but will often destroy or severely damage all lower tier units in the blast radius. Extra tip: unlike the TVBomb, Overlord’s Wrath does cannon damage, making it more effective against vehicles.


Subfaction-Specific:

--Reaper-17 attenuated forcefields upgrade cost increased to 2000 from 1000

Upgrade is more closely aligned with relative power

--Advanced Articulators cost/build time increased to 2000/60 from 500/15

Upgrade is more closely aligned with relative power and timing now provides opposing players with a chance to scout and counter effectively

--Traveler cultist squad member hp decreased 320 to 250

These units are now slightly easier to kill with anti-mass and anti-infantry units

--Hexapod recycler radius 300 to 450

This ability now extends nearly the length of the Hexapod attack range and should be much more useful/usable

--Devourer tank uncharged damage increased 500 to 650, charged dmg 750 to 800

Uncharged devourer tank is now in line, per cost, with the Predator and Scorpion tank. Upgraded devourer is more closely in-line with upgraded Scorpion tanks and the new Shatterer.

--Shardwalker upgraded with blue shards now fires as fast as unupgraded version (decrease in clip reload by 50%, increase in clip size from 4 to 5)

Blue-shard upgraded shardwalkers no longer lose effectiveness against large, low-hp infantry squads.

--Reaper 17 conversion reserves now provide the stated increase in tiberium hold capacity

Bug fix.



All Nod:

--Catalyst missile radius decreased to 100

The Catalyst missile has been rebalanced to the new refinery cost

--Dozer Blades upgrade increased to 2000/60s from 1000/30s

Cost more closely approximates power and usefulness, build time allows opposing player to more effectively build counter units

--Beam cannon range increased 500 to 600

Intended 1.09 change that never made it ohmy.gif)

--Avatar and Purifier main beam weapon damage increased 850 to 900

The Avatar and Purifier are more closely aligned with the Mammoth and Tripod

--Fanatic damage increased 325 to 700, radius 40 to 50

Fanatic relative power increased to 1.09 TW levels

--Flame tank cannon penalty reduced 200 to 150

Flame tanks are now more resilient when used against a mixed army

--Rage generator hallucination time 20s to 3s

Still fun, but not army-destroying fun


Subfaction-Specific:

--Shadow Team summon power cost increased to 2500

Shadow teams can no longer be acquired per-cost with this ability, this also increases the opportunity cost of an early Shadow Team rush

--Black disciples upgrade increased from 1500/30s to 2000/60s

Cost and build time brought more closely in line with relative power

--Purifying flame cost/build time increased to 3000/90s from 2000/45s

Cost and build time brought more closely in line with relative power

--Commandeered Beam Cannon damage increased 600 to 900

Commandeering is now, in terms of power per cost, 10% more effective than building a second avatar, but once he goes down, so do all of your weapons!

--Flame tank damage with purifying flame increased 216 to 300

Purify them!

--Purifier flame damage with purifying flame reduced 750 to 300

Purifier no longer deals absurd amounts of damage to everything and more closely aligned with other flame weapons.

--Supercharged particle shredder turret damage decreased 150 to 90

Supercharged turret is no longer more effective versus vehicles than the laser turret

--Charged particle shredder turret damage decreased 100 to 80

Charged turret is no longer more effective versus vehicles than the laser turret

--Shadow team explosive charge damage reduced 2000 to 1500

Now requires 3 teams to take down a power plant, 7 teams to take down a refinery, brought more in-line with increased refinery cost and the slower economy

--Mantis range increased 275 to 300

Mantis can now engage air units more effectively without incurring significant damage

--Confessor cabal cost/buildtime increased 300/3 to 400/4, damage increased 4 to 6

Confessor cabal is less easily spammable and brought more closely in line with cost of final upgraded form, early-game damage increased to compensate

--Laser-upgraded buggy now deals more damage than unupgraded (75 to 100)

--Laser-upgraded laser turret now deals more damage than unupgraded (140 to 210)

The upgrade produces a beneficial result, instead of a negative one. Good thing.

--Vertigo disruption pods now subtract the appropriate 500 credits on use

Bug fix.



Neutral:

--Mutant marauder damage increased 6 to 9, speed increased 40 to 60

Mutant marauders can now keep up with/cost-effectively deal with unupgraded infantry. They’ll fight for you!
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# 2Dackel May 23 2008, 02:12 AM
I am the first reading this. w00t.gif
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# 3EA Apoc May 23 2008, 02:14 AM
And you better be the first to come back...MrYuri, by the way, you should have mail very soon =)
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# 4Luk3u§ May 23 2008, 02:29 AM
So much for the small increment patch idea. tongue.gif

Things look good I guess.... Lots of things getting changed around...
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# 5Lugas May 23 2008, 02:29 AM
Most of the changes look very good.

Edit: but there are a few that are just plain odd. Like decreasing range on the corruptor mechapede segment.

This post has been edited by Lugas: May 23 2008, 02:32 AM
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# 6methuselah May 23 2008, 02:30 AM
QUOTE(EA Apoc @ May 22 2008, 21:14 PM) *

And you better be the first to come back...MrYuri, by the way, you should have mail very soon =)


LOL!

Good stuff Apoc thanks for posting. I can't wait to try it out biggrin.gif
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# 7VeDz May 23 2008, 02:33 AM
I like. I like the fact that you've taken the whole approach of "don't nerf scrin too much, instead just buff gdi up to their level".

I will finally be able to compete with steel talons biggrin.gif
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# 8MrYuRi May 23 2008, 02:37 AM
QUOTE(EA Apoc @ May 23 2008, 04:14 AM) *

And you better be the first to come back...MrYuri, by the way, you should have mail very soon =)

Looking forward to the patch and your mail smile.gif
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# 9Veeman May 23 2008, 02:38 AM
Wow, these are great changes overall. I'm usually a hardcore GDI player, but I got to say I was suprised by the extent of the nerf to 'Rage Generator'. I agree that it needs a nerf, but isn't reducing it from 20sec to 3sec going overboard? With many units who have a slow rate of fire, in the 3 second period, they'll only get off 1 salvo/shot a piece. This makes the Redeemer the weakest Epic in game in terms of garrisonable slots and utility.
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# 10Dain-Jon May 23 2008, 02:39 AM
"--Grenadier range and EMP grenade range increased 240 to 260, grenade speed increased 120 to 180, scatter increased 15-20 versus infantry, blast radius increased 20 to 30

Grenadiers are now more effective at taking out large squads of low-hp infantry"

Nice, now I finally might be able to use grenadiers. The grenade speed increase was a hugely needed change.

Hmm, on first reading I can't find anything I disagree with. Will read through again when I'm not at work. biggrin.gif
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# 11sp12.07 May 23 2008, 02:41 AM
Some of these are great.


Others seem, well........

Absurd.

Uncrushable titans?

Invulnerable shatterers.

Useless Trav. air. (no advantage over V.Scrin)

What does meta-unit production structures refer to?

Useless upgrades.

Shadow teams aren't usable anymore.

This patch is looking somewhat mixed.............

Oh, and WTF with the redeemer, it has 2 garrisons and is now weaker than a hexapod (which had an ability that was so laughable, no one even mentioned it as a strength).


This post has been edited by sp12.07: May 23 2008, 02:43 AM
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# 12VeDz May 23 2008, 02:42 AM
Only problem I predict is that the MARV will be a HUGE issue, due to the new economy.

Every GDI won't bother expanding as the incentives for it have reduced, therefore they will stay on their primary field, camp till MARV, roll over tiberium fields and then just dominate.

People are already doing this now, I can only imagine how bad it will get after this patch eyebrow.gif
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# 13ModoLX May 23 2008, 02:46 AM
Honestly that looks great! Thanks for taking time to post such a long list with the why included smile.gif

Kinda has to be a big change list with all the subfactions i mean comon folks there 9 of them lol. But this looks really promising

This post has been edited by ModoLX: May 23 2008, 02:47 AM
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# 14VeDz May 23 2008, 02:47 AM
QUOTE(sp12.07 @ May 23 2008, 12:41 PM) *

Some of these are great.
Others seem, well........

Absurd.

Uncrushable titans?

Invulnerable shatterers.

Useless Trav. air. (no advantage over V.Scrin)

What does meta-unit production structures refer to?

Useless upgrades.

Shadow teams aren't usable anymore.

This patch is looking somewhat mixed.............

Oh, and WTF with the redeemer, it has 2 garrisons and is now weaker than a hexapod (which had an ability that was so laughable, no one even mentioned it as a strength).



I think all the epics need rebalancing before release. Especially the MARV and Reedemer.

Furthermore they are too cheap at $5000. What is the equivalent to them in terms of price? The Ion cannon.....which takes like 5-6 minutes to charge....Yet the epics like MARV pretty much guarantee a win for you as soon as it's out, only for $5000.
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# 15sp12.07 May 23 2008, 02:47 AM
Oh, and I've been a Nod fan for quite a bit, but I can't think of any reason to use it anymore....


GDI is going to destroy every other army! I can't wait!

Shatter+rig.

Titan+rig.

And now inf. from BH or Trav. can't be used to counter!

I'm going to have a 1000-0 account soon!


Oh, and to whoever it was that said that they brought GDI to Scrin's level, they didn't.

They brought it above, and brought Scrin down to about ST (before) level.

This post has been edited by sp12.07: May 23 2008, 02:50 AM
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# 16KillTime1 May 23 2008, 02:47 AM
Have you fixed desync issues?

Since this is the "first draft", when can we expect the final draft.

When will the patch come out?
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# 17ModoLX May 23 2008, 02:52 AM
QUOTE(VeDz @ May 23 2008, 02:42 AM) *

Only problem I predict is that the MARV will be a HUGE issue, due to the new economy.

Every GDI won't bother expanding as the incentives for it have reduced, therefore they will stay on their primary field, camp till MARV, roll over tiberium fields and then just dominate.

People are already doing this now, I can only imagine how bad it will get after this patch eyebrow.gif



I dont think they will have enough cash to do that from one field remember they increased all that build stuff. So someone trying to fast tech and get a marv out is going to be quite helpless until that time. In which a scout or two will tell the tale and you can get rid of it before that happens.

In regards to nod's epic, it can still stealth lol..... I agree with the change I dont think a unit of 5000 should trump a 70,000 credit army with 1 power used. Think about it from that angle before flaming that change.
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# 18Flopjack May 23 2008, 02:54 AM
My only issue now is with the bugs! Will we see EMP abilities for MoK fixed? Behemoth garrisons not firing? Behemoths not responding to aggressive mode?

Nice fix to the Rage Generator. This thing had OP written all over it. 3 seconds of your enemy's unit hitting each other is nothing to laugh at. Redeemer is now christened balanced!

This post has been edited by Flopjack: May 23 2008, 03:00 AM
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# 19HuNteD May 23 2008, 02:55 AM
nice changes overall imo, but it appears as if its still possible to Shadows teams in your opponents base before their WF is up which is instant win for the Nod player. Depends on how long it takes to train the third ST needed from the barracks i guess. Some nerfs seem odd though.
Traveller got hit very hard by these changes, hopefully not too hard.
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# 20Zicro May 23 2008, 02:58 AM
--Most faction harvester health increased 4000->5000, steel talon/black hand harvester health increased to 5200

What was the health of harvesters in 1.09?
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