Hardware

First generation i7 vs "old" core 2 quad

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# 1Angmarian Warrior Sep 20 2008, 20:50 PM
Hey guys,

I'm in an urgent need of a new pc, so I'm going to buy a new fine rig around Christmas. I've stumbled upon several articles concerning Intel's Nehalem processor architecture and its new cache memory, memory controller, new socket, multithreading,auto-turbo-OC,... This stuff will be launched together with the X58 chipset for the compatible mobos.
All right, I thought, then I'll spend a 200 extra to have an i7 processor + X58 mobo. However, this article suggests that the new processors are not worthy to buy yet in Q4 2008, but that it's better to wait till Q3 2009.

What should I do now? Invest in this new processor architecture, or stick with a Q9300 and cheaper-but-not-that-much-slower-DDR2 memory?

If you need the info, these are the parts of the pc I have in my mind (processor, mobo and memory not included), but I'm in doubt about my cpu, that's why I posted it here smile.gif :

- Antec nine hundred
- Corsair 550W
- Sapphire HD4870(X2)
- Samsung Spinpoint 640GB
- Samsung DVD burner 22X
- Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit.

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# 2Carbon Sep 20 2008, 21:05 PM
A CF setup, especially with two 4870's, will require a vastly more powerful PSU. Two 4850's is typically powered with a 650W PSU. I think you'll want to spend a fair bit more money on your PSU. Common opinion is that the PSU is the only part of your build that you can't go cheap on; spend the extra money and get a solid PSU. You get what you pay for. It's not just about the watt rating, either. Look for good efficiency (80% +) and good ampere output (~ 30A).

HERO is the only one I know who's strongly advising people to wait for the Bloomsfield CPUs before ugrading. Personally, I'm not going to bother getting a Nehalem when they come out. The cheapest one is ~ $299, and that's mighty pricey. The X58 chipset MB's won't be cheap either. Besides, the desktop Nehalems don't come out until Q1 next year, they won't be released this year. Still, HERO knows his stuff. I'm sure he'll come in here and blow me out of the water with whatever he's holding back.

Haven't read that article, but I'll take a look at it later smile.gif. Tom's Hardware has been accused of being biased in the past, FYI.

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# 3Angmarian Warrior Sep 21 2008, 09:24 AM
Ok, thanks Carbon. But I didn't mean a 4870 in crossfire, I meant the 2GB dualcore one, which doesn't consume as much power as the CF one iirc. But it's very doubtful that I'll take that card, because the performance/money rate of the 4870 is way better.

I guess I'll stick with the Q9300 then, I don't want to wait another 6-9 months to get a new system. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Angmarian Warrior: Sep 21 2008, 09:25 AM

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# 4Carbon Sep 21 2008, 16:45 PM
It's probably still worth your while to stick around and listen for HERO. My bad on the GPU laugh.gif.

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# 5Angmarian Warrior Sep 21 2008, 18:15 PM
QUOTE(Carbon @ Sep 21 2008, 18:45 PM) *

It's probably still worth your while to stick around and listen for HERO. My bad on the GPU laugh.gif.


Ok, then I'll do that! tongue.gif

*sticks around*

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# 6Vissario Sep 21 2008, 19:01 PM
Intel will probably release its high end CPU's and mobo chipsets in Q4 2008, the mainstream will be launched in the first quarter of 2009, since the mobo's have a new socket and a hugely revised CPU, you could better wait till 2009, but if you are in need of a PC then you cannot wait and you`ll just have to stick with a cheap DDR2 system, I wouldn't buy the Q9300, just buy a E8400/E8500 and wait until the other CPU architectures are released.
To cut the costs, you might even go for an AMD, a Athlon X2 5000+ is doing pretty well in games with a decent graphics card like the 4850, the 9800GT is cheap as well, just to prepare for the big upgrade in 1 and a half year. During that time the prices will drop of AMD's and Intel's new CPU's and mobos.

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# 7Angmarian Warrior Sep 22 2008, 17:05 PM
I see. I'm certainly not going to upgrade a pc in one and a half year, so I'll try to not miss this new nehalem train in Q1/Q2 2009. Thanks for the info guys. smile.gif

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# 8HERO Sep 28 2008, 09:16 AM
We're currently sitting at a technology gap people.

The new gen is right at the horizon and to upgrade previously to that is to waste money on new ram and a new mobo that won'tl support next gen processors.

If you're looking to upgrade this late into the year, I would highly suggest you hold back till late 2008 or early 2009 after price drops when Intel releases their higher end stuff.

The performance is well worth the money. The weakest Intel new gen makes he current budget king (E8400) looks like a P4 vs. P2. Not to mention the improved memory controller, larger L2 cache and superior encoding features.

There's sites everywhere on the web bros:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_(microarchitecture)

Just look for the magic word and you'll get plenty of info. You're just going to have to believe me when I say their new stuff is amazing..

This post has been edited by HERO: Sep 28 2008, 09:40 AM

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# 9Guardian Sep 30 2008, 00:03 AM
drol.gif

QUOTE
A 2.93 GHz Nehalem "Bloomfield" system has been used to run a 3DMark Vantage benchmark and gave a CPU score of 17,966.[12] The 2.66 GHz variant scores 16,294. A 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo E6600 scores 4,300.[13]


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# 10Angmarian Warrior Sep 30 2008, 18:55 PM
A 400% improvement in benchmarks? Lies! WTF.gif

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# 11Carbon Sep 30 2008, 19:26 PM
No, I don't think so. There was a user on Guru3d who cited the same information from a different source.

Edit: But it needs to be clear that the massive performance improvement is on programs with multi-thread support. Most games don't utilize four cores of a quad, so right now an e8600 is the best CPU for gaming. For programs, like games, that don't have good multi-thread support, the Nehalem's score around 5-10% better than current quads. Multi-thread supported programs are significantly better, but I can't recall how much.

I'll try and look up the article I'm thinking of later, but I'm headed off to work pretty quick. It might be Anandtech.

Edit 2: All right, here's the link to the article I was referencing. These stats aren't final though, but I think they give a decent indication of where Nehalem stands in comparison to the current CPUs, the Penryns.

This post has been edited by Carbon: Oct 1 2008, 01:50 AM

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# 12The Red Comet Oct 1 2008, 04:20 AM
One must remember though that when nehalem comes out the mobos will probably cost 200+ and DDR3 will not be cheap for awhile. The transition will be rough, much like the one from P4 > C2D.

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# 13Carbon Oct 1 2008, 04:52 AM
Which is why it's acceptable to buy lower end rigs, which are still quite sufficient. I just wouldn't spend money on a quad so I could do the "future proof" thing. Personally, I'm planning on building a system with an e8400 and P45 MB. It won't be expensive, but it'll get me through a year anyways. After that, when the bugs are sorted out with Nehalem, more or less, and when better processors start popping up, and DDR3 RAM / x58 MBs go down in price, I can upgrade much smoother. But I just don't like the idea of buying a quad, which is going to be more money sad.gif.

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# 14The Red Comet Oct 2 2008, 01:34 AM
QUOTE(Carbon @ Sep 30 2008, 21:52 PM) *

Which is why it's acceptable to buy lower end rigs, which are still quite sufficient. I just wouldn't spend money on a quad so I could do the "future proof" thing. Personally, I'm planning on building a system with an e8400 and P45 MB. It won't be expensive, but it'll get me through a year anyways. After that, when the bugs are sorted out with Nehalem, more or less, and when better processors start popping up, and DDR3 RAM / x58 MBs go down in price, I can upgrade much smoother. But I just don't like the idea of buying a quad, which is going to be more money sad.gif.


Heh, by the time I'm sitting with a rig of DDR3 and a 32nm processor I will feel like a king.

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# 15Carbon Oct 2 2008, 01:35 AM
Sandy Bridge drol.gif.

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# 16The Red Comet Oct 2 2008, 02:29 AM
QUOTE(Carbon @ Oct 1 2008, 18:35 PM) *

Sandy Bridge drol.gif.


By that time well probably be using memristors anyways so don't get too excited.

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# 17The Red Comet Oct 3 2008, 04:33 AM
Update here. I decided not to wait for Nehalem. Reason? Current gen CPU's do the job just fine and in the end Nehalem just means I will l spend less on my GPU. Picked up a Q9300, no regrets.

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# 18Angmarian Warrior Oct 3 2008, 15:18 PM
QUOTE(eviltediz43 @ Oct 3 2008, 06:33 AM) *

Update here. I decided not to wait for Nehalem. Reason? Current gen CPU's do the job just fine and in the end Nehalem just means I will l spend less on my GPU. Picked up a Q9300, no regrets.


Yeah, the Q9300 seems good to me as well and I can get if for a pretty cheap price, but when all those hardware pros say that Nehalem will own, I won't discuss with them. tongue.gif

I'm going to earn another 60 tomorrow, I'll be saving it.

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# 19The Red Comet Oct 14 2008, 14:22 PM
I'm starting to think that this whole Core i7 is going to be a bust. Here is a review from tech power up where they got their hands on one of the new core i7 940's, the 540 dollar one clocked to 2.93 ghz and it's being out performed in games by the current gen quad cores at the same speed, especially when using tri-channel.

The article

Maybe it's just driver letdowns or something but this isn't looking like a true successor to current gen architecture.

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# 20Guardian Oct 14 2008, 15:28 PM
That makes me feel better about my Q9450. Overclock it and it will last a long time.

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