Red Alert 3

Last week EA released the stand alone expansion to Red Alert 3, Uprising. Along with the new expansion new maps, campaign missions, and the Commander’s Challenge, we also got a handful of new units for each faction. Generally, adding new units into a multiplayer environment also means rebalancing the game to make sure that these new units are not overpowered or create imbalance.

With that said, which units from the new expansion Uprising would you like to see added to the multiplayer part of the game? Which factions would benefit the most from these changes and how would they fit in the newly changed patch 1.08 metagame? What current units would have to be rebalanced to fit the new ones in?

Tell us what you think about possibly adding Uprising units to the current Red Alert 3 multiplayer game; we are interested hearing what you have to say.

Judging by the video's and from what I've been hearing (I'm not buying it until the competition is over), I'd say that the Mortar cycle has potential. As well as the Cryo leg and desolator, but I've been hearing mixed thoughts so I need to use those a bit myself to understand how they work.

I want the archer maiden
Rebalanced of course

as many as possable! with balance changes i think the more the merrier imo well xcept the uber units(gigafort,harbringer)but even those could be implemented in the support upgrades as hit and run support or just they come in for 15 sec under ur control and fly away with a massive cool down timer it could work.but i dont care i just want more units period.

Desolator can potentialy completely replace the tesla trooper, and destroy the peace keepr spam. Or any other man spam.

Mortar cycle is definnetly something new and fresh.

Grinder Tank becouse of it's design can be either UP or totaly OP. No third choice.

The same with archer maiden.

Cryo legioner. Is OP currently but I think it is the only unit worth puting into the multyplayer.

I'd want to first list what i believe which of the 11 units are most likely to be patched in, if it's gonna happen.

Most likely of the units
------------------------------------------------------------
Archer Maiden
(Empire could really use an early air counter)

Mortar Cycle
(Good against clumps of infantry and base defenses, won't have to rely on the bear all the time early game)

Cryo Legionaire
(Practiclly stops all infantry hordes if well positioned, put into IFV or multigunner for a grounded cryocopter that also shoots air, can take down a Kirov in a few seconds!)

Desolator
(Great against garrisons, infantry armies and slow moving vehicles)

Steel Ronin
(Nice against vehicles with the bonus of assisting well vs infantry)

Future Tank
(I haven't used this unit yet, though i don't think it would hurt to let Allies have a tough late game unit)

Reaper (basically a jack of all trades unit, don't see much use in this one)

Grinder (A faster APOC with less armor, no harpoon and turbo charge, lawnmowing infantry hordes with this unit is plenty fun)

Siege ta..um, Pacifier
(Ridiculous range, if you're not watching your entire army will go BOOM!)

Harbinger Gunship
(basically a flying APOC tank, though a moving army will avoid getting hit. The chaingun easily finishes off units in red life and infantry)

Giga Fortress
(Chews through bases like nothing, if this thing gets to you, your screwed)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Less Likely

Pacifier FAV is a fucking joke. It's a really interesting unit, but it needs serious rebalancing. It takes like 3-5 dreadnought rockets to kill D:

Also, Reaper is pretty good. It's a lot more versatile than the Bullfrog, and when you use its secondary you can repair it like a turret. Soviet Reaper push!

This post has been edited by Providence: Mar 16 2009, 18:48 PM

Archer maiden - sux vs air mostly, and alt-fire effectiveness differs greatly from what we've seen in promo video. took 3 shots to kill Tesla trooper, arrow shower can't kill flak.
Desolator - massively bugged. Can't fire upon buildings until they are splashed by his altfire, which is even more bugged. VERY durable and can stop manspam but tier3. Good range.
Harbinger - so massively overpowered that it's hard to estimate he will be in MP.
Ripper - very strange unit and of dubious efficency. The problem is similar to seawing - he satr firing with some delay, which is reducing his power conciderably. And his paper armor is a little not worth it for 1600. In turret mode his armor is still crap.
Grinder - very bad implementation of second ability. It's slow moving and actually sometimes took time to grind infantry not run over them. Not so durable and effective - once he started grinding someting you loose control over Grinder until he kill his target. About second ability - he's slow and alt gives him speed boost, so you basically just pressing and pressing alt fire constantly, that annoys.
Mortar cycle - great vs towers, outranges almost everything and tier 1-2. Molotovs almost useless vs infantry.

This post has been edited by Festerheart: Mar 16 2009, 18:57 PM

That's a Desolator feature. The alt fire is supposed to "burn a hole" in the building, thus letting you spill your poop into it and destroy it.

When you actually pull it off, it's a shitload of damage D:

Could someone fill me in on where in the tech tree these units are in Uprising?

Archer Maiden: 500$
Barracks

Steel Ronin: 1600$
Mecha Bay Tier 2

Giga Fortress: A whooping 6300$
Imperial dock Tier 3
1:00 (30 to lay the egg, 30 more to hatch it)

Mortar Cycle: 600$
Barracks
Needs War Factory

Reaper: 1600$
War Factory Tier 2

Grinder tank: Can't remember, 1600$ i think
War Factory Tier 2
Needs Grinder

Desolator: 1500$
Barracks Tier 3

Cryo Legionaire: 1600-1800$
Barracks Tier 2
Needs Defense Buireau

Pacifier: 2000$
War Factory Tier 2
Needs Defense Buireau

Harbinger Gunship: 3600$
Airfield Tier 3
Needs Defense Buireau

Future tank: 3000$
War Factory Tier 3
Needs Defense Buireau

i think the addition of some of these units couldn't be bad! (as long as the balancing is still there).

Not only would it provide more variety within the game, but there would be loads more new strats as well... it would be great to watch some of the replays!

Some of them are obviously too powerful, i'm thinking of the giga fortress and the allies harbringer... but i like the idea of having them pop up as support powers everynow and then, a bit like ents in BFME...

archer and thats it. legionare would be so op lol. same goes for any new allied unit and LOL if someone suggest giga fortress

I like this design. It makes the tech tree more interesting.

However, the fact that most of these units are at T2.5-3 makes me not want them in multiplayer, they wouldn't come until it doesn't matter as much. I'd rather get Natasha/Mirage Tank to handle infantry swarms.

my thoughts of the units, how they can fit in, and how to make em suitable for multiplayer.


steel ronin, actually not that unbalanced, actually quite weak against everything including tanks, they are quite usefull against infantry even though they cant crush them.
they can sweep infantry down while other more suitable anti infantry options take care of it, its damage against tanks and buildings is quite pathetic(well, vehicle is not bad, but tsunami has higher AT dps so thats an issue.)
an way too fix it and to make it like an german tank destroyer from ra2 is to double their damage against vehicles because even an oni is better now, improve their behaviour against moving tanks and units, and make them do multiple sorts of sweeps so it looks more like an living thing rather than an robot with programmed moves (oni should have this too!!).
and it should be immume for emp and immobilization stuff, terror drones, tesla troopers, it shouldnt be explained the steel ronin is helpless because it needs to melee the enemys and he cant do it when an little terror drones is putting him down.
if these changes were made, they will have real good AT capebilitys from their war factory however it is AT only making it fall easely to infantry and aircraft (vindi).
maybe it gets better anti structure damage so it can be used as an t2 counter to turrets but i doubt that one.

archer maiden, this is needed for empire for their lack of aa infantry.
however, the archer maiden sucks against air making a single javalin have higher aa dps than 2 archer maidens wich costs 1000$ against one 400$ cash unit.
maidens also appear to be anti everything units making them effective against both infantry and tanks, this is an overpowered thing to have so i suggest to remove their antitank damage to make it an anti air and infantry only unit (secundary compliments it nicely), and it needs better reload time to make it usefull against air because it gets owned hard compared to javs and flacks.

giga fortress, obviously when you let your enemy get one in multiplayer, youre a complete moron if you didnt see it coming.
the giga fortress rainst death but like the kirov has some nasty weaknesses.
its no,1 weakness is the fact that its only 1 unit.
HYDROFOILS, TERROR DRONES, ROCKET ANGELS, NATASHA!!!!!! THIS IS YOUR MOMENT!!!!!!!!
so thats an issue for his naval form wich is the main weakness.
however, the rockets screw up aircraft as an possible counter leaving the naval form with theoreticly no hard counters.
and i doubt i will see much giga fortresses alone so a lot of the weaknesses are vanquised.
atleast making it possible to make only 1 giga fortress will solve a lot of problems.
another solution is to make the time between the beam and the actual damage a bit increased so dodging shots will be a lot easier, (this technicue is possible now already but it really needs a lot of micro.
for its naval form removing the rockets will solve pretty much everything, its an 6300$ unit so it should pwn the shit out of bases however like kirovs, fast targets should be a weakness.
after that the giga fortress wil become something like an commando, only usefull when backed up properly and devestating when backed up properly.
and thats something they should deserve for an 6300$ unit.

pacifier FAV, completely overpowered, dont look for 1 sec and your dead.
when i first saw them in the soviet campaign i knew instantly that its overpowered as shit.
sure, theres that nice beacon that tells you what is target is but it barely helps dodging it.
some units are simpley too slow if you notice if after it has shot (dreadnought, teslas, those weird scientist guys)
the pacifiers insane damage compared to the range and flexability is completely devestating and overpowered.
its ground form can outpace (if not owned already) pretty much everything it loses from making it impossible to kill without air.
this unit is simpley impossible to balance properly without making it useless.
i dont know how to fix it.

x-1 futuretank, actually pretty nice balanced.
it is typically an base and tank raper due to its mass area of effect damage making it able to annihilate large groups of low tier vehicles.
that is the purpose of this unit, to rape small vehicles (large tank>small tanks) and i dont really have encountered much problems with it.
they cost 3000$ and they are well worht the price in base raping especially against people that clump up their buildings and units.
(and the futurehammertank is fucking awesome!!!!!)
another thing is that it cant crush units, even though its big enough for it.
i dont know if this changes much but making it able to crush stuff would be nice as an heavy unit.
after all, they cant use that little mirage tank to battle apocs.

cryo legionaire, overpowered right now, but with some tweaks it can cure allied mirrors.
the overpowered part is that it takes like 30 peacekeeperblasts to die not even mentioning hammer tanks, and thats it simpley counters anything ground en masse.
the fixes for this would be too cut their health in half or somehting so it should need a bit more micro, and increasing the freeze risistance of vehicles against the cryo legionaire so vehicles should be an nice counter.
this unit could then lay waste to peacekeeperspam and cure allied mirrors from their doomed state, their jump jets allow them to dodge vindi bombs so it will completely change the metagame of allied mirrors.
the cryotrooper wont be an game ender, because turrets and vehicles will own it.
(and did you know that 4 multigunnerturrets with cryotroopers can kill 5 kirovs within 15 secs?)

harbinger gunship, point click wingame? yes pretty much, the harbinger dominates.
its basicly a kirov with all the good parts and none of the bad parts + some bonuses.
it has very high health, very high damage, but none of the kirovs weaknesses like speed, range and survivability.
it has insane speed for such an destructive unit, its basicly the 1.06 twinblade but then much worse.
it hard counters all ground, infantry is insufficient, he just flips to his minigun.
tanks are insufficient, the colliders do shit with it.
and migs and tengus wont work because they probley will have 8+ appolos to back it up.
and if it gets into red health it simpley returns back to base with his insane speed.
the thing that will fix the harbinger instantly would be to nerf his health drasticly.
then it will be like the vx, high damage when used properly, owned when used careless.
the speed also needs an drastic nerf.

reaper, well theres not really much to worry about this guy, it isnt as good against infantry as everybody thought it would be.
the only complaint is that its ability is a bit to powerful.
it should simpley dig in when activated not crasing down and ista killing something.

grinder, ok first off, wich dev was high and put mentally disabled people to drive these things?
grinder is ready!!!
vroemvroem!!!
tjoektjoek!!!
make em....funny.
i just want to play!!!
aaaah goody!!!
he go byebye.

but it is quite funny.
apart from that, it isnt as overpowered as everybody thought it would be.
the health is pretty bad, and the damage is nothing compared to the real apoc.
the only thing its better in than the apoc is getting from point A to point B and to take on futuretanks.
it costs 1600$ and thats barely lower than an apoc.
this unit is actually pretty well balanced if you ask me.

mortar cycle, pretty much the best new unit in the soviet arsenal.
it outranges t1 defences and even advanced defences when heroic.
it also provides effective anti infantry support and can make nice hit and run actions combined with terror drones.
this is an very nice addition and there isnt really anything wrong with it.
it can fire down cliffs and over walls making it an very strategic unit and feared in maps like industrial strenght.
however the motor has paperarmor like the motor from zero hour so its balanced.

deselator, this has quite some bugs and is overpowered, however with some tweaks this can shine against the peacekeeperspam.
the issues with it are the following:
there is some long delay between the moment of firing and the moment of damage.
this makes it not very good against infantry, a way to solve it is to speed up the toxin to an lvl of toxin in generals and zero hour.
the deselator isnt very good at clearing garrisons, well this goes combined with the first one but its garrison clearing is pretty low, 6 seconds for a single guy.
the secundairy is a bit overpowered, but the concept is nice so it only needs slight tweaking.
deselators should do very low damage to vehicles, the secundairy should just be to boost other untis like the gaurdianst painter.
it shouldnt give other deselators such an insane boost because right now the only reason not to spam desolators is that they cant kill buildings.
it also has insane health like the cryotrooper.
and that is also fixed with an health nerf.

this were the units.
and here are some notes:

the soviet ones are most balanced.
the soviet ones are the funniest.
futuretank hammer rules!!!!!!!
pacifier is simpley overpowered.
most allied ones are overpowered.
the empire has the least extras apart from when they can get a fortress out in the game.
steel ronin is badass and should be more badass.
giga fortress voice is fucked up, nothing is more weird.
campaigns of uprising are very small and needed much more if you ask me.
yurikos campaign second mission is awesome with the jailbreak.
BUT THERE ARENT EVEN ANY FLAKTROOPERS AND THEY EVEN HAVE AN LINE FOR IT!!!!!
LETS RIOT!!!!!!!!!!!
and there was an riot going on.
(but tell me, why do the allys simpley put highly operational warmechs in simple cells?)
that was pretty funny to find these onis and steel ronin locked down.


anyway comments and quistions are welcom.

Look. You could just add all of them in Uprising Multiplayer and leave official competitions for the original Red Alert 3.

That way you "pro's" can whine less and we "noobs" can enjoy playing one heck of an expansion.

It's past the boundary of retardedness that they left out LAN play. Honestly, it wouldn't take an extra second of coding. Even if we all want campaign expansions, they could still give us the option to enjoy LAN.

All units are prolar and the Giga Fortress, I've noticed, isn't overpowered for it's price (5.6k). I've had 10 IFV's take it out, so just add everything.

Please learn to look past balance and have fun.

Kthxbai.

Why release just a standalone game sounds kinda pointless...I think EA was to lazy to try and implement new units in to the multiplayer knowing what they did with KW yeck they still haven't got a 3rd patch yet out for that one know how long it would take for an uprising patch.

Something that's always got me as why T1 units are always the "spamable" ones late game?
What if there was a unit that costed 1500 at T1, but it was good at what it did?

For instance, what if the archer maiden was t1 and costed 1000? It would be game changing tbh, pk spam and cryo rush wouldn't be as effective, and it would drop the need for a super fast mecha bay early game. Now, both strats would still, hopefully, work, but it would give empire more options early game, the only thing they need for good balance tbh.

i hope this is supposed to be a joke, right?

killing the balance is 1 thing, but now.. what the hell is this,, i remember the thread's everyone screaming that we do not need another online expansion, and ea shall concentrate on 1 game online first..

im speechless tbh



This post has been edited by -XeoNeQ-: Mar 16 2009, 21:46 PM

The decision to release Uprising without multiplayer was a very good call. Full agree to -XeoNeQ-.

On what I've seen untill now, there's no big need of getting the units from Uprising into the Red Alert 3 multiplayer.