This is the anti-Brit strategy. For a T3-and-vet-heavy General (or anti-US) strategy refer => http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index...howtopic=502402 Overview This strategy is a hard counter to aggressive play using the British faction, which is far more common among high-level players. It forces the British player to use emplacement spam (i.e. 'simcity') to protect himself against the relentless, periodic attacks of massed vetted infantry blobs. Rolling out T3 nebels and/or using doctrine specific artillery at this point, is the coup de grâce, ending the British player.
Origins This strategy has roots in another strategy presented by Slug on the CoH official community site (c0mpl3x1ty on GR) . He originally presented a "spammy" fast t2 strat to be used against US/Brits with fast vetted grens, and shrecks as the main AT. I felt this strat had some merit against brits, but would easily get shut down by any competent US player. But the fast T2 idea with grens still captured my imagination, and I figured it would atleast be a tonne of fun, as opposed to tradtional strats. At the same time, I've been using a T3-max (i.e. no t4) strategy with fast vet in team games, ever since Tales of Valor. A t1-T2-T3 strat (with any doctrine) that is great against any army is my strategy of choice unless i'm facing a very strong american player in 1v1, in which case I stick to a safer T2 terror strat. I felt fast T2 would work best with my T3-only centric game plan and tried merging the two ideas. And against the brits, it seems to have worked rather well. So with the help of my good bud, and mentor, Evilsausage, I set to work on trying to improve it - an on-going process.
Still, a well-known concept in operating systems security circles is this:
"Without the freedom to expose the system proposal to widespread scrutiny by clever minds of diverse interests, is to increase the risk that significant points of potential weakness have been overlooked. A frank and open discussion here is to our advantage." - Paul Baran,The Paradox of the Secrecy About Secrecy: The Assumption of A Clear Dichotomy Between Classified and Unclassified Subject Matter
And so, i'm posting this strat here, even though I feel there is more to be done to improve it.
The Concept This strategy aims to leverage the strengths of the Wehrmacht against the inherent weaknesses of the brits. At the heart of the brit game is their emplacements and their resilient infantry blobs, coupled with some powerful offensive vehicles (Bren carrier in the early game, Stuart in the midgame, and cromwells + fireflies late game).
Their weakness is flames, strong AT, and wehrmacht veterancy. Brits also suffer from reduced capping power.
Using Wehr T1 against the brits has some notable weaknesses. Particularly, MGs are useful against brits when supported, but by themselves they can even be killed and stolen by a single suppressed squad (the HORROR). Volks cannot take on anything more than a recon squad, and often bleed so fast that reinforcing itself can cost you quite a bit of manpower. Bikes are decent and a renewable source of fire, but bike spam with repairing pios comes off to me as a bit dodgy.
However, the REAL problem with T1 however is that it requires far more skill from the wehrmacht player to pull-off, than it does for the brit player. Wehr strats that start with T1 are usually VERY unforgiving of mistakes. Lose an MG to a brit blob, or lose a sniper to a stray mortar round, and you've paid dearly and in blood.
So instead of playing into the hands of the brit player with T1, we'll fight them at their own game, and beat 'em while doing it. One of the great aspects of this strat, which was also to be found in Slug's original strat, was the low level of micro required to really pull this off.
Strengths and Weaknesses
The Pros 1) Strong anti-infantry in the form of vet 2+ pios and vet2+ grens, and nebels 2) Strong anti tank in the form of PaKs, Shrecks, Gwagons 3) Strong anti emplacement in the form of flamers, shrecks and nebels 4) Hard counter to early bren carriers (the strongest early brit unit) in the form of an early PaK 5) Wehrmacht T3 Superiority - Tier 3 with veterancy and T2 support, can efficiently handle anything the brits can throw at you. 6) Cost-effectiveness - T3 + Vet and early OPing results in floated resources that can be used for mid-late game flexibility. The strategy is more forgiving of lost units thanks to the low cost nature of t3 and the units used. 7) Not micro-intensive
The Cons 1) Lack of very early game combat capabilities - owing to a purely pioneer start 2) Harder to pull off on smaller maps or maps with choke points
The Early Game
First Half
Build four of these and send them out capping.
Try to get upwards of 20 fuel, and secure any medium high munitions. Wire off any pts that can keep their infamous infantry blobs out.
OP some munitions AND either a second munitions OR a fuel. As you'll float some fuel by the midgame, you could even just OP one muni instead. OPing two will naturally allow for more liberal use of flamers, shrecks, propaganda war, firestorm, FTFL, registered artillery, assault nades, Blitz Assault etc.
You won't have much of an early field presence so the OPs will make it a lot harder for the brit ot harass cap your crucial fuel and munis. However, if you really feel that you can defend your fuel (or if the map is large and you can outcap him), then you may skip the fuel and OP just the munis.
At this stage of the game, you want to avoid any confrontations. If accosted by an Lt, use two pios to chase him off, but otherwise, try to cap as much as possible and retreat while avoiding losses. Do not engage the brit directly. Avoid and outcap, is the name of the game. TIP: Even ONE pio can chase off an LT. The LT can take on a single unupgraded pio and win, but if you put ur pio in cover, many good players may retreat rather than risk lowering the health of their LT. So they may retreat him rather than fight and kill your pio.
And then there was FIRE
As soon as you get enough munitions, upgrade to flamers;
Now you can afford to skirmish with the brit, but make sure you retreat before you lose any focus fired Pios. You're biding your time here, and after T2 you should be able to make the push. keeping your pios alive is important.
Soon as you gather enough fuel, escalate to Skirmish Phase
Second Half You can make this work with any doctrine, but terror fits the bill very nicely thanks to Zeal which will help out our shrecked gren squads later. However, defensive could be just as good, thanks to FTFL. So if you've got your first CP, spend it on Zeal or FTFL. Assault nades won't go amiss either - however, as we are using T2 for this strat, blitz is a little redundant.
We start off T2 as usual with,
The focus here is to deal with any Bren carriers ASAP. If you've encountered even 1, or think you might, then get a PaK out asap. otherwise you can build 1-2 grens before getting out your paks. At any rate, my prefered build order is this:
If he went for an early borfors (or an unflankable vickers) then:
The Mortar will take out repairing sappers and ensure that you can take out that borfors/vickers preventing your advance. An early bofors is only likely if he knew what you were planning (ref. to second posted game), and will help deal with the threat. If he went for an early mortar pit then he played into your hands really well. As your army is mobile, and you have no MGs, a mortar pit is a waste of resources so you'll gain the upperhand and be able to attack him sooner.
+ Don't forget to get a KKC and start buying vet. Do this before your second pak.
An extra gren or two depending on available manpower
One per squad so they don't drop them, and to preserve their anti-infantry firepower. Shrecks also help to take out enemy cover and "snipe" infantry. Try to get 1 each on atleast 2-3 of your squads.
This is the first step in turning your Grens into "Wehrmacht Rangers". They will still retain the infantry killing power of three Elite K98s and but also be able to handle emplacements, vehicles and that medic bunker.... With zeal, their accuracy improves even as they lose members, and this makes your shrecks quite formidable even at soem range.
The Mid Game
Now you have a sizeable anti infantry army and enough capping to start claiming more territory. if the brit player was on to what you were doing, he would have rushed and tried to cut you off (no kidding), and even camped your strat points. On small maps this can be a problem, but on larger maps you would have worked around this by simply capping around it. Bren carriers are not a problem thanks to your paks,
At this stage you should have 1-2 paks, 4 vet2 flame pios and 2-3 grens atleast. time to move up to where the brit is entrenched. Try to flank his position if he's dug in with vickers. Or use your paks to take out vickers/borfors. You could hold off the assault until you atleast get infantry vet 1. If you already have infantry vet 2, then even suppressed you can take out some emplacements. Target his medic bunker if at all possible. When advancing against the brits HQ position with your infantry-blob, also move your Paks up behind them. This will allow the paks to destroy medic bunkers, emplacements and the HQ truck while your flamers and grens take on infantry. the combination of PaKs + flamers + shrecks will make short work of the enemy structures.
This army should do quite well in reclaiming territory, but for a truck rush there are some things to consider before or during the rush, just to increase the chances of success.
At this point in the game, the goal has been CONTAINMENT. You want to beat him to his HQ area as much as possible. if the truck rush doesnt make him relocate or seems to be failing, retreat before you lose squads and focus on containing him to his HQ area. Minimize the amount of territory he has.
Things to consider before hitting his HQ truck:
+ Medic bunker isn't necessary, but isn't a bad idea either, especially if you went defensive. Build it in a safe spot, and it will help you during your assault that's coming soon.
Continue buying vet and getting grens as necessary.
This is a mobile reinforcement point. it's also useful to reinforce ur pios in the field WHILE they burn that brit blob. And very good for fast reinforcing grens who may need to crew decrewed paks, etc. Use it wisely, and you can either upgrade it to a flame truck at T3, or stukas if you decide to skip T3 and go T4.
While you're beating him off, use your free resources to tech to T3.
Rangers, don't be a target! ... wait what?
Finally your vet 2 grens truly become rangers! .. Use these as your long-range assault/support infantry, while your pioneers close in for the big flame crits. You should be able to annihilate entire squads with this. Here's another + point. When you get both shrecks and LMGs on Grenadiers, your Shreck icon will show instead of the LMG. He may get over confident and get close with his infantry to combat your K98s, only to find three LMGs ripping his squads apart. Rush in with flamers and it makes for some nice bbq brit!
By now you should have really pushed the brit around on the map, so out come the game enders. If you haven't convinced him to move at least once by now, then he'll find vetted nebels to be extremely persuasive.
The CONTAINMENT phase ends here. You are no longer happy with only kicking the brit around. You want to pound that nail into his coffin, so here's where you bring out your power units that will assure victory.
The Late Game Now depending on whether you need more AT power, more anti-infantry power (highly unlikely) or emplacement spam, you may want to adjust your strategy, but a typical build order would have:
Wait?! In the US of A these already come with Vet2? verrry nice! I like it verrrry much!
Stug reporting! ... Replace these with Gwagons if you have them
You can't really do t3 without atleast 1 of these guys. Get two if you have the resources and use it for raiding and bleeding his infantry.
If you can manage without the stugs + Puma a bit longer you should also be upgrading to,
Support Vet 3: Now your nebels and pios REALLY own face.
Constant barrages with nebels will take the mickey out of even the most battle-hardened, tea-drinking British Captain. Use shift + right-click between barrages to move them arround and prevent a 25PDR from 1 shotting them. Also good to keep their commandos guessing when trying to steal them from you.
Tank Vet 1 - is also a necessity if you plan to use Stugs/Gwagons at all. but with good micro you may not need it. It's your main infantry force who will be dealing the damage, while your AT is more of a defensive measure against armored counter attacks in the form of cromwells, churchills, and fireflies.
If you have atleast two Geschutzwagons on the field, and are floating resources (floating resources is typical in the late game for this heavy T3 strategy), then consider going all the way up to Tank Vet 3 and get an extra Geschutzwagon. They are the ultimate counter to all armor, especially with vet 3. Just make sure to hold them back and use them conservatively as anti tank guns. They have the same range as a PAK or 57mm and can destroy emplacements quite rapidly. Your OPed munitions will also allow liberal use of the rapid fire ability.
They are scratching the paintjob, Helmut!
If you went terror the King Tiger will serve as the quintessential game-ender. Even the most entrenched position can be destroyed by taking these steps 1) artillery barrage to soften the target 2) attacking with flamers, and shrecked/LMGed grens 3) Using the King Tiger to 'anchor' the attack head-on, while other units flank, in a classic double-envelopment or pincer manœuvre 4) Use your stugs/gwagons/etc (if any) to take out 17pdrs and bofors emplacements as a priority 5) Chances are, if you got this far holding atleast 1VP, you've already won
Alternatives:
In some cases you may prefer to tech to T4 instead, (say you're really floating resources), in which case upgrade that HT to stukas, and get a second one, and roll out panthers for AT duty ,
Panthers can be extremely good against Churchills (Royal Engineers Regiment) and Cromwells. With PaK support they can also handle fireflies. If you need additional AI then Ostwinds are an excellent option.
If this fits your play-style better, remember to use your tanks with support from PaKs and shrecks to deal with fireflies. Churchills/cromwells should go down easy either way, but its still a good idea to use support. T3 is still a better bet as you get nebels that are already vetted, as opposed to stukas. But if T3 is just not your style this is an option that will work fine.
Suggestions Use of Goliaths to take out brit blobs (by Toby). This strat results in floated munitions. Combined with the passive cloaking of goliaths in heavy/light cover, you can set traps for the brit blobs and take them out with the goliath. Losing 450mp (or 560 for commandos) squads is devastating for the brit player.
Use Mortar Smoke when rushing simcity (Jazzhead). Some of you may be using this already. If you do get a mortar, use the smoke to give your pios + grens a chance to close in on those vickers/borfors. The plus side to this is, smoke only affects projectiles. Flamers work beautifully through smoke and can be used to annihilate vickers/borfors fast. But be careful with those already inaccurate shrecks. Smoke can make them worse. But its a small price to play given the advantage of being able to close in.
Conclusion It may not be the best and only counter to brits, but it certainly is a fresh way to do it. It's also loads of fun, and rather refreshing to be able to blob and move around the same way brits do, while at the same time keep shoving annoying resilient infantry in their slow-moving faces. If nothing else, it should serve to vex them greatly. It is also very capable of meeting brit blobbers head on and annihilate them. By the mid-game, your fear of the Brit blob will be a thing of the past!
I'd say the best aspect of this strategy is the low-micro requirement. If you're sick and tired of having to thoroughly outplay a brit in order to even equal him in the field, then this strategy is perfect for you. This requires less skill to pull off (about the same skill a brit requires), but still manages to counter them quite well. So even beginners should be able to do decently with it.
If you do get around to using this strat against other players do post some replays. Thanks!
This post has been edited by tastelikecrab: Aug 31 2009, 14:13 PM
When i tested this strategy with my friend I told him what my plan was (in its original state) and tried it out, but as he knew exactly what I was going to do, he would cut me off and take my fuel really early, generally playing very aggressively for a brit.
I suspect it would work better against an average brit player which will focus more on digging in and be rather surprised that you fast teched instead of going T1 on him.
At any rate, I lost the first two games against Evilsausage, after which I adapted the strategy to its current form. After this I won against him in a rather interesting fight, but it may not be entirely representative of the merits of the strategy itself as it was still in the process of developing (the first time I tried this version of it), and also my friend went for early churchills while floating resources. This worked out badly for him as I had two paks out realy early, and was able to make a push and take out all he had with my vet pios and grenadiers.
WIN - while this first replay isn't the best example of the strat (for another reason being that I went T4 this time to more efficiently combat his spigot churchills), i'll include it anyway, and post any future games.
WIN - I've added a second replay where I again tested the strat with Evilsausage while he attempts to stop me early by disconnecting me.... This time it was quite brutal early game as I lost my source of munitions and thought I'd lose this one. phew!
WIN - A test game on semois. luckily opponent didn't do too much of a good early game. But it can still be a nightmare to play semois against a brit... i'd uncheck this map ( i got a loss against a lvl 12 on semois with this strat-i didnt post it cos i actually played that game really really bad. nothing to see there )
LOSS - Eventhough this was a loss it is quite instructive. Lesson: Get firestorm ASAP! (Even before PROP war), and on maps iwthout much muni, OP a second one. Use this if he goes simcity (Simcity + aggressive play, is the best way to attempt to counter this strat, so good players will eventually start using it, even though its not a very pro brit strat)... Anyway, I didnt play this game too well, but my opponent played it extremely well, using demo charges to great effect and even getting commandos MG. This is a MUST SEE as it shows some important things to look out for when using this strat against pro players. I also deviated from the T3- fast nebels, and got gwagons which turned out to be a bad idea.
Submitted by Kem1kal, playing on Langres. A lot of swearing by the brit makes this replay especially colorful. Constant nebel barrages makes him rage. "-cutoff + trench @ 2 minute mark -wire to help slow down the blob -dead bren @ 7 min -fast stuart that dies -dead cromwell or 2 (?) -shitty micro by me... suicide flamers ftl almost -nebels that win the game -prop war ftw as well" http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index...t&id=488072
Budwise vs ArrmyTraininSir He doesn't pick a doctrine till right towards the end when he just V1s the guy's defenses. Also early walls of Tank traps and wire to build a veritable fortress on Angoville makes this replay interesting. http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index...t&id=488717
RussiaCarDriveYou on Sturzdorf against a high ranked brit (top 20s on leader board). Watchign this replay there are many points where Russia could have truck rushed and finished the brit off early, but he's being cautious through most of it. Good IHT and call-in arty use here. Defensive Doc ftw. The incredulity of the brit player at the superiority of vetted Wehr blobs over brit blobs makes for some interesting reading. http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index...t&id=488934
This post has been edited by tastelikecrab: Jul 18 2009, 16:07 PM
GJ posting this strat taste. It actually seems pretty damn solid.
Well the first replay i played kinda like crap and i got bored and decided to go RSE for some reason.
But the other one was a good one. I knew what he was about to do and still he managed to beat me. He just put so much pressure and i basicly had to spend my manpower reinforcing.
I may not be by any meens a hardcore brit player(who the hell is?). But still i don't consider myself too bad. I normaly beat him when he goes t1 but with the new t2 strat is pretty damn hard to counter.
The early paks makes my brens and stuarts kinda useless. And flamers + grens just eats up the infantry. I guess a mortar pit could have helped out tho...
This post has been edited by Evilsausage: Jun 14 2009, 17:06 PM
Thanks a ton for improving on my strat. Its important to note that if you can get the grens out early, there probably won't BE a late-game. When I used this strat against brits, usually they were just barely getting a support truck out by the time I had about 3 squads of grens and maybe a shrek or two between them.
A brit player needs more than just a bren carrier to piece this one apart. If the brit can figure a way to put some vickers emplacements up in territories important to the wehr player, he could possibly forstall the gren rush until he gets a bofors or a few more inf sections to buff up his blob. With the paks on the field, its tough to do a hard counter to this. More or less, the brit needs to rely on vickers emplacements and his inf blob. Because this strat takes advantage of the fact that the brits can't capture as quickly as the wehr, its very hard to counter.
By the way, I was the guy who came up with the early strat, with 5 pioneers and about a gajillion gren squads and a halftrack. I even went so far as to outline it in this replay here: http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes...ls&id=84111
but what caught crab's interest was this replay right here:
Just as crab said, WSC is a hard counter to this strat, but Brits are DEFINITELY going to struggle against this one. Thanks a ton for improving on my strat Crab!
This is Almost like Piospam to T2 vs Brits. Just nice tweaky changes. But the Idea is the same. Pios + Grens make casualities for Med and soon you have 6 gren squads + Flamers and Paks to kill armor.
Double kiting brens could cause pioneers trouble early-game, but how many brit players do you know get two brens out that early in the game? Its usually Lt., move truck, inf., bren. By the time that bren is out, the Wehr player probably got to T2. Even if the Bren is harassing the pios a bit, its still too late to forstall the move to T2, which is all the Wehr player needs, usually.
interesting. Ill be watching later to see what you're doing against an agressive brit (which is common in the higher ranks)
They get boned the most.
1 or 2 squads of anything british can't beat flame pios. Never have.
Paks still own just about everything thrown at them, and the aggressive brit is always answering to the business end of that thing. They get too close to the other end, its usually propaganda war to send them home if you play your cards right. If anything, its more advantageous for them to stay in their borders against a wehr pulling this strat.
I've been running this strat for a while, and the only real game-changer is arty. Usually the off-map arty tears those gren squads to pieces. The on-map arty? Not the same.
This strat has a huge freaking hole, what if they base rush? Once the british player realizes what your doing , all he has to do is send a few brens down to your base and its gg.
I am also skeptical about this strat, simply because there is no counter to bren carriers until you reach T2. I know the PAK is gonna be quick, but recently I've gone up against quite a few brits getting a bren as their first or second unit. Just seems like you coud be easily cut off and lose the highly important ammo income.
POST MORE REPLAYS
I can't judge without watching you play it vs a variety of brit openings and maps.
=> http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index...howtopic=502402
Overview
This strategy is a hard counter to aggressive play using the British faction, which is far more common among high-level players. It forces the British player to use emplacement spam (i.e. 'simcity') to protect himself against the relentless, periodic attacks of massed vetted infantry blobs. Rolling out T3 nebels and/or using doctrine specific artillery at this point, is the coup de grâce, ending the British player.
Origins
This strategy has roots in another strategy presented by Slug on the CoH official community site (c0mpl3x1ty on GR) . He originally presented a "spammy" fast t2 strat to be used against US/Brits with fast vetted grens, and shrecks as the main AT. I felt this strat had some merit against brits, but would easily get shut down by any competent US player. But the fast T2 idea with grens still captured my imagination, and I figured it would atleast be a tonne of fun, as opposed to tradtional strats. At the same time, I've been using a T3-max (i.e. no t4) strategy with fast vet in team games, ever since Tales of Valor. A t1-T2-T3 strat (with any doctrine) that is great against any army is my strategy of choice unless i'm facing a very strong american player in 1v1, in which case I stick to a safer T2 terror strat. I felt fast T2 would work best with my T3-only centric game plan and tried merging the two ideas. And against the brits, it seems to have worked rather well. So with the help of my good bud, and mentor, Evilsausage, I set to work on trying to improve it - an on-going process.
Still, a well-known concept in operating systems security circles is this:
"Without the freedom to expose the system proposal to widespread scrutiny by clever minds of diverse interests, is to increase the risk that significant points of potential weakness have been overlooked. A frank and open discussion here is to our advantage."
- Paul Baran, The Paradox of the Secrecy About Secrecy: The Assumption of A Clear Dichotomy Between Classified and Unclassified Subject Matter
And so, i'm posting this strat here, even though I feel there is more to be done to improve it.
The Concept
This strategy aims to leverage the strengths of the Wehrmacht against the inherent weaknesses of the brits. At the heart of the brit game is their emplacements and their resilient infantry blobs, coupled with some powerful offensive vehicles (Bren carrier in the early game, Stuart in the midgame, and cromwells + fireflies late game).
Their weakness is flames, strong AT, and wehrmacht veterancy. Brits also suffer from reduced capping power.
Using Wehr T1 against the brits has some notable weaknesses. Particularly,
MGs are useful against brits when supported, but by themselves they can even be killed and stolen by a single suppressed squad (the HORROR). Volks cannot take on anything more than a recon squad, and often bleed so fast that reinforcing itself can cost you quite a bit of manpower. Bikes are decent and a renewable source of fire, but bike spam with repairing pios comes off to me as a bit dodgy.
However, the REAL problem with T1 however is that it requires far more skill from the wehrmacht player to pull-off, than it does for the brit player. Wehr strats that start with T1 are usually VERY unforgiving of mistakes. Lose an MG to a brit blob, or lose a sniper to a stray mortar round, and you've paid dearly and in blood.
So instead of playing into the hands of the brit player with T1, we'll fight them at their own game, and beat 'em while doing it. One of the great aspects of this strat, which was also to be found in Slug's original strat, was the low level of micro required to really pull this off.
Strengths and Weaknesses
The Pros
1) Strong anti-infantry in the form of vet 2+ pios and vet2+ grens, and nebels
2) Strong anti tank in the form of PaKs, Shrecks, Gwagons
3) Strong anti emplacement in the form of flamers, shrecks and nebels
4) Hard counter to early bren carriers (the strongest early brit unit) in the form of an early PaK
5) Wehrmacht T3 Superiority - Tier 3 with veterancy and T2 support, can efficiently handle anything the brits can throw at you.
6) Cost-effectiveness - T3 + Vet and early OPing results in floated resources that can be used for mid-late game flexibility. The strategy is more forgiving of lost units thanks to the low cost nature of t3 and the units used.
7) Not micro-intensive
The Cons
1) Lack of very early game combat capabilities - owing to a purely pioneer start
2) Harder to pull off on smaller maps or maps with choke points
The Early Game
First Half
Build four of these and send them out capping.
Try to get upwards of 20 fuel, and secure any medium high munitions. Wire off any pts that can keep their infamous infantry blobs out.
OP some munitions AND either a second munitions OR a fuel. As you'll float some fuel by the midgame, you could even just OP one muni instead. OPing two will naturally allow for more liberal use of flamers, shrecks, propaganda war, firestorm, FTFL, registered artillery, assault nades, Blitz Assault etc.
You won't have much of an early field presence so the OPs will make it a lot harder for the brit ot harass cap your crucial fuel and munis. However, if you really feel that you can defend your fuel (or if the map is large and you can outcap him), then you may skip the fuel and OP just the munis.
At this stage of the game, you want to avoid any confrontations. If accosted by an Lt, use two pios to chase him off, but otherwise, try to cap as much as possible and retreat while avoiding losses. Do not engage the brit directly. Avoid and outcap, is the name of the game. TIP: Even ONE pio can chase off an LT. The LT can take on a single unupgraded pio and win, but if you put ur pio in cover, many good players may retreat rather than risk lowering the health of their LT. So they may retreat him rather than fight and kill your pio.
As soon as you get enough munitions, upgrade to flamers;
Now you can afford to skirmish with the brit, but make sure you retreat before you lose any focus fired Pios. You're biding your time here, and after T2 you should be able to make the push. keeping your pios alive is important.
Soon as you gather enough fuel, escalate to Skirmish Phase
Second Half
You can make this work with any doctrine, but terror fits the bill very nicely thanks to Zeal which will help out our shrecked gren squads later. However, defensive could be just as good, thanks to FTFL. So if you've got your first CP, spend it on Zeal or FTFL. Assault nades won't go amiss either - however, as we are using T2 for this strat, blitz is a little redundant.
The focus here is to deal with any Bren carriers ASAP. If you've encountered even 1, or think you might, then get a PaK out asap. otherwise you can build 1-2 grens before getting out your paks. At any rate, my prefered build order is this:
The Mortar will take out repairing sappers and ensure that you can take out that borfors/vickers preventing your advance. An early bofors is only likely if he knew what you were planning (ref. to second posted game), and will help deal with the threat. If he went for an early mortar pit then he played into your hands really well. As your army is mobile, and you have no MGs, a mortar pit is a waste of resources so you'll gain the upperhand and be able to attack him sooner.
+
Don't forget to get a KKC and start buying vet. Do this before your second pak.
An extra gren or two depending on available manpower
One per squad so they don't drop them, and to preserve their anti-infantry firepower. Shrecks also help to take out enemy cover and "snipe" infantry. Try to get 1 each on atleast 2-3 of your squads.
This is the first step in turning your Grens into "Wehrmacht Rangers". They will still retain the infantry killing power of three Elite K98s and but also be able to handle emplacements, vehicles and that medic bunker.... With zeal, their accuracy improves even as they lose members, and this makes your shrecks quite formidable even at soem range.
The Mid Game
Now you have a sizeable anti infantry army and enough capping to start claiming more territory. if the brit player was on to what you were doing, he would have rushed and tried to cut you off (no kidding), and even camped your strat points. On small maps this can be a problem, but on larger maps you would have worked around this by simply capping around it. Bren carriers are not a problem thanks to your paks,
At this stage you should have 1-2 paks, 4 vet2 flame pios and 2-3 grens atleast. time to move up to where the brit is entrenched. Try to flank his position if he's dug in with vickers. Or use your paks to take out vickers/borfors. You could hold off the assault until you atleast get infantry vet 1. If you already have infantry vet 2, then even suppressed you can take out some emplacements. Target his medic bunker if at all possible. When advancing against the brits HQ position with your infantry-blob, also move your Paks up behind them. This will allow the paks to destroy medic bunkers, emplacements and the HQ truck while your flamers and grens take on infantry. the combination of PaKs + flamers + shrecks will make short work of the enemy structures.
This army should do quite well in reclaiming territory, but for a truck rush there are some things to consider before or during the rush, just to increase the chances of success.
At this point in the game, the goal has been CONTAINMENT. You want to beat him to his HQ area as much as possible. if the truck rush doesnt make him relocate or seems to be failing, retreat before you lose squads and focus on containing him to his HQ area. Minimize the amount of territory he has.
+
Medic bunker isn't necessary, but isn't a bad idea either, especially if you went defensive. Build it in a safe spot, and it will help you during your assault that's coming soon.
Continue buying vet and getting grens as necessary.
This is a mobile reinforcement point. it's also useful to reinforce ur pios in the field WHILE they burn that brit blob. And very good for fast reinforcing grens who may need to crew decrewed paks, etc. Use it wisely, and you can either upgrade it to a flame truck at T3, or stukas if you decide to skip T3 and go T4.
While you're beating him off, use your free resources to tech to T3.
Rangers, don't be a target! ... wait what?
Finally your vet 2 grens truly become rangers! .. Use these as your long-range assault/support infantry, while your pioneers close in for the big flame crits. You should be able to annihilate entire squads with this. Here's another + point. When you get both shrecks and LMGs on Grenadiers, your Shreck icon will show instead of the LMG. He may get over confident and get close with his infantry to combat your K98s, only to find three LMGs ripping his squads apart. Rush in with flamers and it makes for some nice bbq brit!
By now you should have really pushed the brit around on the map, so out come the game enders. If you haven't convinced him to move at least once by now, then he'll find vetted nebels to be extremely persuasive.
The CONTAINMENT phase ends here. You are no longer happy with only kicking the brit around. You want to pound that nail into his coffin, so here's where you bring out your power units that will assure victory.
The Late Game
Now depending on whether you need more AT power, more anti-infantry power (highly unlikely) or emplacement spam, you may want to adjust your strategy, but a typical build order would have:
Wait?! In the US of A these already come with Vet2? verrry nice! I like it verrrry much!
Stug reporting! ... Replace these with Gwagons if you have them
You can't really do t3 without atleast 1 of these guys. Get two if you have the resources and use it for raiding and bleeding his infantry.
If you can manage without the stugs + Puma a bit longer you should also be upgrading to,
Support Vet 3: Now your nebels and pios REALLY own face.
Constant barrages with nebels will take the mickey out of even the most battle-hardened, tea-drinking British Captain. Use shift + right-click between barrages to move them arround and prevent a 25PDR from 1 shotting them. Also good to keep their commandos guessing when trying to steal them from you.
Tank Vet 1 - is also a necessity if you plan to use Stugs/Gwagons at all. but with good micro you may not need it. It's your main infantry force who will be dealing the damage, while your AT is more of a defensive measure against armored counter attacks in the form of cromwells, churchills, and fireflies.
If you have atleast two Geschutzwagons on the field, and are floating resources (floating resources is typical in the late game for this heavy T3 strategy), then consider going all the way up to Tank Vet 3 and get an extra Geschutzwagon. They are the ultimate counter to all armor, especially with vet 3. Just make sure to hold them back and use them conservatively as anti tank guns. They have the same range as a PAK or 57mm and can destroy emplacements quite rapidly. Your OPed munitions will also allow liberal use of the rapid fire ability.
They are scratching the paintjob, Helmut!
If you went terror the King Tiger will serve as the quintessential game-ender. Even the most entrenched position can be destroyed by taking these steps
1) artillery barrage to soften the target
2) attacking with flamers, and shrecked/LMGed grens
3) Using the King Tiger to 'anchor' the attack head-on, while other units flank, in a classic double-envelopment or pincer manœuvre
4) Use your stugs/gwagons/etc (if any) to take out 17pdrs and bofors emplacements as a priority
5) Chances are, if you got this far holding atleast 1VP, you've already won
Alternatives:
In some cases you may prefer to tech to T4 instead, (say you're really floating resources), in which case upgrade that HT to stukas, and get a second one, and roll out panthers for AT duty
,
Panthers can be extremely good against Churchills (Royal Engineers Regiment) and Cromwells. With PaK support they can also handle fireflies. If you need additional AI then Ostwinds are an excellent option.
If this fits your play-style better, remember to use your tanks with support from PaKs and shrecks to deal with fireflies. Churchills/cromwells should go down easy either way, but its still a good idea to use support. T3 is still a better bet as you get nebels that are already vetted, as opposed to stukas. But if T3 is just not your style this is an option that will work fine.
Suggestions
Use of Goliaths to take out brit blobs (by Toby). This strat results in floated munitions. Combined with the passive cloaking of goliaths in heavy/light cover, you can set traps for the brit blobs and take them out with the goliath. Losing 450mp (or 560 for commandos) squads is devastating for the brit player.
Use Mortar Smoke when rushing simcity (Jazzhead). Some of you may be using this already. If you do get a mortar, use the smoke to give your pios + grens a chance to close in on those vickers/borfors. The plus side to this is, smoke only affects projectiles. Flamers work beautifully through smoke and can be used to annihilate vickers/borfors fast. But be careful with those already inaccurate shrecks. Smoke can make them worse. But its a small price to play given the advantage of being able to close in.
Conclusion
It may not be the best and only counter to brits, but it certainly is a fresh way to do it. It's also loads of fun, and rather refreshing to be able to blob and move around the same way brits do, while at the same time keep shoving annoying resilient infantry in their slow-moving faces. If nothing else, it should serve to vex them greatly. It is also very capable of meeting brit blobbers head on and annihilate them. By the mid-game, your fear of the Brit blob will be a thing of the past!
I'd say the best aspect of this strategy is the low-micro requirement. If you're sick and tired of having to thoroughly outplay a brit in order to even equal him in the field, then this strategy is perfect for you. This requires less skill to pull off (about the same skill a brit requires), but still manages to counter them quite well. So even beginners should be able to do decently with it.
If you do get around to using this strat against other players do post some replays. Thanks!
This post has been edited by tastelikecrab: Aug 31 2009, 14:13 PM
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