Heroes of Newerth

Thunderbringer Guide

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# 41Witchking' Feb 25 2011, 10:32 AM
I agree on the lack of interest, though another problem is that there are lots of people that could produce decent guides, but there are only a handful of people that can produce a really professional guide that goes beyond the usual early, mid and late game, item and skill analysis. And that's what you guys should strive for - not only teaching the newbies but also giving advice to people that already play the game for a longer time, possibly not only on pub level.

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# 42Gameslayer989 Feb 25 2011, 10:49 AM
i wouldn't mind making guides and updating old ones, but I only really know 1 hero so... tongue.gif

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# 43kustodian Feb 25 2011, 13:05 PM
QUOTE(Witchking' @ Feb 25 2011, 11:32 AM) *

I agree on the lack of interest, though another problem is that there are lots of people that could produce decent guides, but there are only a handful of people that can produce a really professional guide that goes beyond the usual early, mid and late game, item and skill analysis. And that's what you guys should strive for - not only teaching the newbies but also giving advice to people that already play the game for a longer time, possibly not only on pub level.

Well I don't agree with you on that one. Imo there are many more people that would learn a lot more from a decent guide with just the explained skill build, and the explained item build. New especially new players like that more than anything. Of course it's nice to see some nice tips you might not think of by yourself, but if a new player sees how big is the Pebbles guide for example, first thing he would think of is: "Fuck Pebbles, if I need to read all that to learn how to play him, I'll just play another hero!". I'm not saying the guide is bad (it's awesome btw), it's just too much information for new players to handle.

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# 44shakespeare Feb 25 2011, 13:12 PM
QUOTE(kustodian @ Feb 25 2011, 13:05 PM) *

Well I don't agree with you on that one. Imo there are many more people that would learn a lot more from a decent guide with just the explained skill build, and the explained item build. New especially new players like that more than anything. Of course it's nice to see some nice tips you might not think of by yourself, but if a new player sees how big is the Pebbles guide for example, first thing he would think of is: "Fuck Pebbles, if I need to read all that to learn how to play him, I'll just play another hero!". I'm not saying the guide is bad (it's awesome btw), it's just too much information for new players to handle.

When I was new I loved these big indepth guides. You're not describing new players, you're describing lazy players tongue.gif If they want they can just look at the skill build and ignore the rest. HoN is a complicated and deep guides so it need deep guides.

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# 45Gameslayer989 Feb 25 2011, 13:46 PM
QUOTE
Well I don't agree with you on that one. Imo there are many more people that would learn a lot more from a decent guide with just the explained skill build, and the explained item build. New especially new players like that more than anything. Of course it's nice to see some nice tips you might not think of by yourself, but if a new player sees how big is the Pebbles guide for example, first thing he would think of is: "Fuck Pebbles, if I need to read all that to learn how to play him, I'll just play another hero!". I'm not saying the guide is bad (it's awesome btw), it's just too much information for new players to handle.

oh sh- that's why my WB guide didn't get very many views ohmy.gif

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# 46Rooo Feb 25 2011, 14:11 PM
QUOTE(kustodian @ Feb 25 2011, 13:05 PM) *

Well I don't agree with you on that one. Imo there are many more people that would learn a lot more from a decent guide with just the explained skill build, and the explained item build. New especially new players like that more than anything. Of course it's nice to see some nice tips you might not think of by yourself, but if a new player sees how big is the Pebbles guide for example, first thing he would think of is: "Fuck Pebbles, if I need to read all that to learn how to play him, I'll just play another hero!". I'm not saying the guide is bad (it's awesome btw), it's just too much information for new players to handle.


Should GR be something for just new players, not for those intermediate which like to know a bit more about the game?

Just saying, making a different guide for beginners / intermediate / players allows new players to get the basics, and will allow them to continue learning with the 2nd guide. No need to force it all in 1 guide.

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# 47Witchking' Feb 25 2011, 16:59 PM
QUOTE(kustodian @ Feb 25 2011, 15:05 PM) *

Well I don't agree with you on that one. Imo there are many more people that would learn a lot more from a decent guide with just the explained skill build, and the explained item build. New especially new players like that more than anything. Of course it's nice to see some nice tips you might not think of by yourself, but if a new player sees how big is the Pebbles guide for example, first thing he would think of is: "Fuck Pebbles, if I need to read all that to learn how to play him, I'll just play another hero!". I'm not saying the guide is bad (it's awesome btw), it's just too much information for new players to handle.

I strongly suppose that this doesn't reflect reality. There are quick and small guides everywhere, whilst the in-depth ones are rare.

When I was new to BfME I, DotA, CoD 4 and HoN (all the games I played for a longer time, striving to get better at a fast rate), I was soaking everything up like a sponge that I could find, and I was pleased to find detailed guides which also explain why certain things are better than other ones and why you do what and when - because that's the biggest problem for every beginner. They can copy skill and item builds and read the skill description, but they won't learn less obvious issues that identify a good player.

It's also a really bad trade-off to enforce semi-decent, superficial guides, while disregarding detailed ones. What do you gain? You satisfy beginners and advanced people just shrug and think "nothing new, why am I even reading this?".
If detailed guides were the standard, new players could decide on their own what they want to read and know while advanced ones also would get their money worth. A win-win situation for both kinds of players from my point of view.

This post has been edited by Witchking': Feb 25 2011, 17:01 PM

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# 48kustodian Feb 25 2011, 20:57 PM
You guys misunderstood what I wanted to say, or probably I expressed myself in a bad way. Of course a complete guide is better than a decent one, the word "complete" basically has a higher meaning than "decent', but that is not the point. The point is, with little resources which we have, atm only 2 Strategy Specialists (for those of you who don't know, they are the ones that usually write guides), it is far better for the readers of our site to have 30 decent hero guides, than to have 5 complete guides. Those 30 guides will benefit them far better than those 5. Of course in an Utopian world we would have as many complete guides as there are heroes, but this is reality smile.gif

Anyway, if anyone is interested in helping out, on updating some of these guides, or making them "complete", feel free to contact us, and we will be more than happy to provide you the guide's code and everything you need to do what you want.

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# 49LukDeRiff Feb 25 2011, 21:36 PM
Witchking I totally understand what you are talking about and I highly respect it. Having fully detailed guides for every Hero would be ideal, the idea of having people dedicated to updating and improving existing guides every month is also not new.

But the main problem is that we are lacking people right now. We will announce that we are officially searching for more people but right now artists are more urgent (we need artists for everything!).
And the last time we were looking for Strat specs no one was interested sad.gif

The once people get into the staff position they write one or two guide (about their favourite Heroes) and then they are facing the problem of having to get insight of Heroes that they are not 100% interested in. I have played Pebbles twice in total on all my accounts and yet I was able to create a humongous guide which I believe is the by far best Pebbles Guide out there.

It takes time and it sometime it requires you to work a lot and at times that work is boring and lengthy.
So the problem is not that people are not able to create content but much rather that people are not able to consistentely produce it.

Currently we have to people that are writing and that I believe to be able to continue doing so for the future. These two are Sylla and me, both of us being perfectionists and generally we write long, extensive, very detailed guides which take a lot of time to create.
In the next months I hope we will be able to realease anything from 2-4 guides a month and hopefully the same amount of stratey articles.

That is not all, once we have the basics (complete Hero guides and Item index/guide) we can dive deeper into to the strategical aspect and create extremely complex content like picking guides, video guides and much more awesome stuff.

So "to learn; do read" (much better than the original tongue.gif)

We will look for more strat specs publicly in the future but the doors are always open.

This post has been edited by LukDeRiff: Feb 25 2011, 21:38 PM

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