CNC Zero Hour

Stinger tracking is what makes them so strong.

It only causes them to harm air units more. It doesn't explain why gamma BB's tear down buildings in a couple of seconds.


Ah ok so that was you. I couldnt remember anymore where i knew your name from.

This post has been edited by Opsnyder: Nov 6 2009, 18:47 PM

Your looking pretty stupid right now.

lol

WoW Mercury resurrected.

From da death y0!

it's not necessarily true that if it works with very high values, it'll work with the current values. SAGE can make rounding errors. I remember back when 1.05 was getting made, increasing missile health and then increasing ECM anti-missile damage to match somehow made ECMs less effective.

Gatts don't benefit from Enthusiasm. Minigunners don't benefit from either Enthusiasm or Hording - at current levels. Test it yourself. Don't just force-fire on the ground - it could be that the graphics/sounds ramp up but the damage doesn't.

I'm willing to accept that Nationalism could have narrowed the damage difference between horde/non-horde, but the difference is even narrower than your stats would suggest - 125% to 175% is a 40% increase in firepower, and I'm definitely not seeing that. There's some strangeness over here.


anyways, on attack outposts, here's what I know so far:

1. Attack outposts start out Nationalism-less. So doing unload/reload before heading out will net you a 25% bonus in firepower. Considering it's very fast to do so, it's worth doing. I thought it's to do with veterancy, but I guess I was wrong about that.

2. Attack outposts don't benefit from Enthusiasm, except for the healing. This makes Subliminal less awesome than was thought in the past, but at $500 it's still a no-brainer, as it'll keep everything alive, and boosts the ECMs/Infernos.

3. Unloading/reloading to get the hording bonus usually isn't worthwhile, since the bonus under Nationalism is tiny. Depends on the situation, of course.

4. Patriotism might be worth getting even at $2000 if it's an overall increase in firepower. How much firepower exactly needs further testing (even though we know what it says on the tin). It'll be necessary to unload-reload AOs to benefit.

As a further thought, since helixes suffer the same problems, proplixes might not be worth it any more.

This post has been edited by cairo: Nov 6 2009, 23:44 PM

I tested and you're right Cairo, propaganda doesn't affect the infantry inside vehicles. I figured out why my test was wrong. When you upgrade nationalism for vChina, your TH fire faster BY DEFAULT. Nationalism adds 25% fire rate, not to horde bonus, BUT TO YOUR TH's regular attack speed, this also applies to Battlemasters.

Nationalism affects the unit even when NOT affected by horde! It's just a constant 25% bonus! Same with Patriotism.

It turns out that infantry created inside a vehicle don't start with their upgrades, they have to be unloaded and loaded again to benefit. The reason your AO-TH fire slower than your regular TH is because it's not affected by nationalism, not because the 1chev doesn't affect them.

I can confirm that subliminal messaging does not affect gattling tanks EXCEPT for reducing spin up time. I believe this is because gattling tanks hit the "maximum" fire rate set by the game engine, this is also true for Quads with 1st salvage though, the 2nd salvage has no effect if you test it.

Also @ Opsnyder
If you add 50% onto 25% then it becomes 88% more damage, while AP rockets will only add 25%, which is almost double the damage of a regular unupgraded bus, plus the stinger tracking makes it very strong against air units too.



It still heals 2% of the helix's max health per second after subliminal is researched.

This post has been edited by Sharpnessism: Nov 7 2009, 00:24 AM

yeah, but it's $2000 at least. without the ROF buff it mightn't be worth getting.

TBH I still think it's fairly important since in most cases it can cut repair time in 1/2, as it helps the lix repair at the AF and also while it's moving back to the AF.

The $2000 is probably better spent upgrading nationalism now that I know that it affects all TH constantly.

This post has been edited by Sharpnessism: Nov 7 2009, 00:47 AM

Proplixes still make your helix force way more versatile/bigger and can save a helix because their health basically improves.


Yeah this might explain it.


Im not completely sure but I think they can go faster then in the current versions. I've tried to find a gattling's max speed by making chainguns give a 3000% ROF bonus and I think it had twice the speed of normally.

I hate to spoil everything, but 50% isn't the correct value. GC_Chem_TunnelDefenderRocketWeaponGamma was quoted, but the toxin RPG trooper uses Chem_TunnelDefenderRocketWeaponGamma.

So it's 30% & caps at 62.5% with AP rockets. One other reason it may get so powerful is veterancy. Plus you've got to remember that a single RPG trooper/TH/MD does more damage over time than a stinger site (not considering damage types or armour), so it starts pretty powerful anyway.

I'm guessing the max attack rate is 1 per frame, like the dragon tank. Fully upgraded, a gatt won't reach that speed. But the microwave tank is infamous for not working if you set it's attack rate to less than 100ms (IIRC) so there's certainly different values for different units.

I can't help but remember a comment I once read about attack bonuses clashing with each other. I expect the reason a gatt or MG doesn't gain attack rate with horde or speaker towers is because it clashes with continuous fire. Whichever is larger will work, while the other will be disabled. It's the only hypothesis I've read that fits all the evidence so far.


I'm certainly seeing that. Compare the before & after nationalism barracks. Their health is very close. Exactly what would be expected going from a 50% difference to a 40% difference.

This post has been edited by Annihilationzh: Nov 7 2009, 13:22 PM

There really must be something else with the gamma upgrade then. After the upgrade the RPG do insane damage. Im 100% sure this increase is not 30%.

hi

Oh hi there -MeRcuRy-, nice see you here again.

thx nice to see you too

Yes I admit.