Kanes Wrath

mammoth tanks?

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# 1stoochie Jul 7 2010, 06:35 AM
im not much of a gdi player..... but is it just me or does no one really use mammoth tanks? people seems to either go pred spam or marv and juggs. anyway.... why is this?

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# 2Gromij Jul 7 2010, 09:09 AM
in gdi mirror juggs are the better choice because enough supported juggs will massacre mammoth tanks.

vs nod or scrin imo mammoths are better, but for some reason everyone likes juggs there as well. i can see an argument for juggs vs epics if you have emp, but otherwise i would get no more than 1 jugg for every 3 mammoths.

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# 3cnc315d34d Jul 7 2010, 09:12 AM
there are circumstances where mammoths are very useful but epics dominate this game so much that its better to just go marv+jugg spam most of the time

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# 4Eph2.8-9 Jul 7 2010, 15:14 PM
I use a lot of Mammoths versus R-17 and vScrin. In a long game, I'll get them vs. Nod factions also to beat up on the Redeemer without taking too much rage damage or laser damage like Preds.

Every other matchup tends to require Juggs.

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# 5SolidSnake311 Jul 18 2010, 19:35 PM
RG mammoths are unstoppable, I wonder if charged R7 Tripods or dual laser Avatars can stand toe toe against them

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# 6Eph2.8-9 Jul 18 2010, 23:53 PM
QUOTE(SolidSnake311 @ Jul 18 2010, 14:35 PM) *

RG mammoths are unstoppable, I wonder if charged R7 Tripods or dual laser Avatars can stand toe toe against them


Cost to cost or equal numbers? Also, are you counting support powers? Stasis can really hurt Mammoths, while shielded Tripods take some pounding before you can use Shockwave on them. Is this an in-game test, or just purely statistical?

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# 7SolidSnake311 Jul 19 2010, 00:06 AM
I was doing some tests non RG mammoth vs vTripod are balanced. RG MM vs Shield Tri, Mammoth wins, in groups of 4 mm vs 3 tri (cost effective) mm wins, Im sure my testing isn't 100% reliable but at least It gave me a clue regarding each units power. I as asking about 2xLaser Avatars and Shielded, Charged R17 Tripods because I haven't tested them yet. PC AI sells buildings before one can capture them.

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# 8zookerz Jul 19 2010, 07:07 AM
You also need to add the fact that Tripods can EMP. If they walk up to the mammoths on aggressive, they can get 2 emps and kill the other 2 mammys which would make the tripod cost effective. I think you should try Railgun RR mammoth vs Reaper tripod shielded and charged. Must be interesting ohmy.gif

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# 9SolidSnake311 Jul 19 2010, 07:28 AM
Did some more trials (KW 1.02 btw):

Un-UPGRADED:

Mammoth > Avatar

Mammoth ? Tripod (Situational, very balanced both can win, depends if mammoth fires missiles first or turret is facing front)

Mammoth> R17 Tri (surviving with minimum health)

Charged R17> Avatar, MM, Tripod

Tripod > R17Tri (Believe it or not it won)

Tripod, R17 tri > Avatar

UPGRADED:

RG MM ? Tripod (depends again where mm turret is facing, balanced i'd say 50/50)

R17 ? RG MM Depend sometimes Tri Survives with only a thread of health

2x Laser Avatar> RG, Mammoth, Shielded and charged R17 and Shielded Tri -for 3200 you can have a very powerful unit, perhaps the most powerful tier 3 unit-

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# 101749 Apr 2 2012, 04:31 AM
Pros
Mammoth is an absolute bang for your buck.
They cost effectively kill every vehicle in the game(when you don't count in crushing)
Big meat shield
Cons
Slow as heck - prone to air raid and artillery
Weird Turret Turning - the turn rate of the turret and the vehicle itself is different and can cause issues sometimes, but hardly noticeable
Prone to heavy infantry - mind control units are absolute issue

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# 11Manick2005 Apr 14 2012, 21:51 PM
Do Mammoths hard counter anything? What situations should they be used in? Every time I use them to attack a base, they get decimated. I've never had good results with Mammoth tanks and it seems like far too many units can easily counter them for them to be useful.

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# 12blai Apr 15 2012, 00:06 AM
QUOTE(Manick2005 @ Apr 14 2012, 16:51 PM) *

Do Mammoths hard counter anything? What situations should they be used in? Every time I use them to attack a base, they get decimated. I've never had good results with Mammoth tanks and it seems like far too many units can easily counter them for them to be useful.


Use a couple to prevent your enemy from continuing with T1 units, but generally a MARV with juggernaut support will make up most of our T3 army. Barely slower and much more effective

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# 13cnc315d34d Apr 15 2012, 00:57 AM
mammoths are crap... dont bother with them unless youre up against reaper17 or scrin tripod spammers (or occasionally, laser scorp spammers) - in which cases they can prove very cost-effective, but watch out for stasis

but for other matchups, they need rails to be half decent and even by then youll actually have no money to support them while your opponent has all the time in the world to prepare counters for them (inf, specters, obelisks, epics etc)

bottom line: gdi is most comfortable playing with their t1-2 units, preds are your real backbone, and you throw in marv/juggs for support at t3
-------

ps- if you want to see shit like mammoths/zonetroopers being awesome, 1.03 is where its at wink.gif

This post has been edited by cnc315d34d: Apr 15 2012, 01:04 AM

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# 141749 Apr 21 2012, 15:59 PM
cnc your probably USING them wrong. Mammoth are not your assault force they are a giant meat shield that fires back. Support your mammoth likes it an epic cause losing 2 of them is almost like losing a marv.

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# 15cnc315d34d Apr 21 2012, 16:16 PM
go look at any half decent replays... how many gdi's use mammoths successfully except v r17?
next to none.

if you want a cost-effective meatshield, its the marv youre looking for... a marv may cost 2x a mammoth but has WAY more health + aoe damage + harvest/deny fields.
want firepower? preds, apcs, juggs, rockets etc

mammoths are too slow, expensive and once you make them youll never have cash to build anything else...
but hey, its all good if your opponent is brain-dead and is reluctant to invest even 1% effort in switching tactics!

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# 161749 Jun 19 2012, 19:09 PM
aoe? Mammoth has aoe damage too. IT is faster than a marv and more manueverable

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# 17cnc315d34d Jun 20 2012, 05:00 AM
mammoths have next to 0 aoe... unless you mean that 1 pixel's worth of aoe done by the missiles (which are even terribly inaccurate vs inf), which is done by any other cannon/rocket unit anyway lol

one of the things that make the mammoth particularly terrible is its practically zero anti-inf capability... its way too sluggish to crush and their weapon fires too slowly to be any good vs inf.
whereas if you pick a marv, preds or juggs instead of mammoths, these units can actually be lethal to inf, so they complement the power of your ap apcs/shatts vs infantry and make your force more versatile:

-mass preds pose a REAL threat to a mass of infantry because of their decent speed+armor, forcing them to scatter properly to avoid crushing, or atleast focus-fire them first, buying ap apcs/shatts more time to dish out more damage

-a few juggs mixed in will also suppress the infantry, making it even easier to crush them, and their damage output is pretty high enough to complement your anti-inf too

-marv may be slower than mammoths in-terms of max speed, but its actually roughly just as manoeuvrable (it actually has equal turn times/radii to mammoths...), takes smaller directional amor penalties, but more importantly it has high hp-per-cost and can KITE with its long range + AoE (often makes enemy inf clump/get suppressed) - this actually gives it a ton more versatility than mammoths

in other words - if you have a force with marv or preds or juggs mixed with your apcs/shatts, the marv/preds/juggs actively contribute towards 40-50% of your anti-infantry capability, whereas if you replace those units with mammoths this drops down to like 10% (placing much more strain on your apc/shatts) because mammoths simply THAT bad vs infantry

so again, bottomline is in most cases (except vs hardcore scorp or tripod spammers) just substitute those mammoths with juggs/preds/marv and youll end up with a far better winning combo

This post has been edited by cnc315d34d: Jun 20 2012, 06:13 AM

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# 18Jacobjb Jun 30 2012, 12:07 PM
QUOTE(1749 @ Jun 19 2012, 19:09 PM) *

aoe? Mammoth has aoe damage too. IT is faster than a marv and more manueverable

He also forgets about one of the best anti infantry units in the game. Sniper Teams. Mammoths, preds, some juggs with sniper support is strong if dealing with a ground only battle. I would use in my army some Mammoths and predators mix, but mostly predators with some apcs. Some juggs, (juggs for bombardment of enemy base defenses, emp epics/units), with some orca and firehawk support.

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# 19cnc315d34d Jun 30 2012, 13:08 PM
cool, so how about posting up some of your pro replays to show us how its done?

or you still noob bashing on xbox?

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# 20neoragexxx Jul 23 2012, 04:23 AM
QUOTE(cnc315d34d @ Jun 30 2012, 13:08 PM) *

cool, so how about posting up some of your pro replays to show us how its done?

or you still noob bashing on xbox?


biggrin.gif Plus snipers are bugged and the fire on tanks instead of inf if you don't micro them

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