Heroes of Newerth

Rampage Guide: Manning Up!

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# 1X-Flame Aug 16 2011, 17:43 PM
Heroes of Newerth Rampage Guide

This post has been edited by X-Flame: Aug 16 2011, 17:53 PM

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# 2DaReaper5 Aug 16 2011, 18:20 PM
I found that Revenant is an extremely good laning partner. The anti armor w/ invis + dmg bonus we completely dominated our lane getting the first 2 kills at lvl 2.

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# 3MiniDonbeE Aug 16 2011, 21:23 PM
So I thought I was the only "childish" person in these forums but nope.. guess not, syllable is also one with his om nom nom you die a lot this game kk ? and the dont die like an idiot phase.. i skimmed through it and I loled at the titles.

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# 4Oreb Aug 17 2011, 05:38 AM
I'm about 1750 right now. So I don't know everything. But I've always found the max aura the best build in the end. You do more damage in the end, even with Charge - Auto - Bash - Auto. Then you would with max bash. The slow allows you to get 2-3 more hits in after if they have no escape or cc.

You'd never get a rampage unless you can maximize his damage in the lane in any case, to ensure those levels to allow you to start charging and helping mid get dominance.

Nor once have I never ganked. As a rampage I'll usually always have charge off cooldown, or be waiting for a prime target. That's with aura maxed.

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# 5Mr. Wrex Aug 18 2011, 07:36 AM
You say rampage needs farm to be effective. I strongly disagree.

He does not need any farm at all, much like Andromeda. None of his spells work towards items, they are all static (ofc you need boots wink.gif ).

Of course he deals more damage with some items, but he doesn't need it to set up kills / kill any hero.

Also, always max aura first. Bash -> Charge -> Aura 3x -> Ulti -> Aura.

There's some math behind it which proves that maxing aura before bash gives you a LOT more damage. The aura also gives the slow, which is awesome for allowing your teammates to catch up with the assaulted hero.

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# 6Witchking' Aug 18 2011, 10:56 AM
I totally agree with Caedus. Also vanguard is a decent item on rampage, he is often the focus when he ulties someone and needs survivability. Shrunken head next against heavy disablers.
Then you can still disassemble vanguard and make a heart of it.

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# 7Mr. Wrex Aug 18 2011, 11:17 AM
Yes Vanguard is very good on rampage.

I'd go chalice, steamboots, hobtl, shrunken if necessary, then frostburn.

Flavor would be nullstone, always useful.

Those items give him enough hp to take a beating, since he will mostly be spearheading pretty much any gank, and if he can survive the initial charge, he can deal a lot of damage just by charging a second time + bashing, so survival > damage items.

Also, I believe that there is never a bad line-up to pick rampage. He really tears pubs apart, and helps your team set up ganks more efficiently than chat-rage ever will, due to the amount of time your team has to get to the charged hero.

Rampage rapes supports when he ganks, and in the laning phase no melee hero can go toe-to-toe vs him.

Since his spells all go through BKB, picking him is never bad, seeing how he maintains usefulness throughout the entire game.

Lane presence is strong, midgame he's a god among gankers (though still not as good as pebbles), and lategame he can disable that annoying shrunken headed carry efficiently.

A very good addition to any pub line-up.

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# 8Mr. Wrex Aug 18 2011, 11:55 AM
Ok read the guide.

Do you even discuss and look at guides that are to be published, or do you just blindly publish any guide that gets written so you have something to publish?

Seriously, what a load of garbage.

"When to (Not) Pick This Hero" - garbage

Defiler, easy prey for rampage? Please wacko.gif If that defiler is decent in any way she will have some hp items, and will simply pop her ulti when she sees you solo-charging her to kill her. That ulti till tear the hobtl-less rampage into pieces.

"Skill builds" - terrible

Skill build no 1 is bad because you advocate maxing bash over aura. Bad bad bad Aura is 2x the damage, and 2x the disable, if you consider that with -85 ms you and your lane partner will be able to get twice the amount of auto attacks on the enemy than with only -35

Skill build no 2 is bad because you should never max charge first. Charge gains minimal increases in dmg and stun time for each level after 2, your 2 other skills (especially aura) scale way better. If you want to limit your potential to a "charge once and let the hero escape", then go ahead. Just don't be on my team please.

Skill build no 3 is bad because you get aura at level 1? Never ever get passives at level 1! Get bash at level 1, then charge, then max out your aura. You never know if you're doing to need that bash to escape from an early gank, or if you can assist in getting that bloodlust on the support who wants to plant a ward. If you get aura first, you're just a sitting duck that can be kited around, gg.

Also it's funny that you're making rediculing the best skill build, just because you think it's bad, when it's you who is bad.

Item build: Garbage

No chalice? How will you be able to gank 24/7 if you have 0 mana regen (RotT doesn't help nearly as much as chalice) when you're completely oom after 2 charges?

No mana battery? You're a ganker for god's sake, you'll be close to enemy heroes 24/7, that mana battery will save your life many times! You'll be the one who's charging in, you will take the initial spells = massive amount of charges. You'd be a fool not to take advantage of that!

No Hobtl? How will you be able to gank all the time if you have 0 regen? Your chalice will take a lot of hp, and going back to base each time you've ganked to regen is a waste of time and gold...

You advise to towerdive enemy heroes, but you do not advise your readers to get hobtl, but to rush sh. That is totally foolish, because by the time ramp got his sh, half his prime-time is over already (according to you, he shouldn't be farming, so his sh will take quite some time, considering he will die on half his ganks because he will towerdive with little to no survivability, and if he survives the gank he will have to go back to base to regen)

Bad advice, really bad advice. Do not sacrifice your early game domination just because you want to rush a big item. Play it safe, and you'll have enough mana and hp regen to dominate from level 6 on, and from there you can just keep going if you get steamers, chalice and hobtl.

Hobtl will also allow you to get a few neut kills during times where you can't gank due to enemy positioning, without losing a lot of hp.

You can get SH later on, but get hobtl first, it will help your early game so much more than getting that sh 5 mins earlier.

As for the Early Phase:

Gank that mid hero. Don't go charging your sidelane enemies. Charge that opposing mid hero and just make his life hell. It's so easy to coordinate a mid gank with your friendly mid player, and there's not a lot a classic mid hero can do against rampage + another hero. That will allow your allied mid hero to get the early advantage over the enemy, thus allowing him to gank and snowball a lot faster, ensuring your win.

If there's an enemy jungler, set up a ward in their jungle, and if you see him dropping a bit, just charge him. You'll make his life hell as well, because the enemy team doesn't know if you're charging the woods hero or the mid hero, thus forcing both heroes to pull back. This means that by potentially wasting your time charging, you're limiting at least 2 enemy heroes from farming.

/rant over

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# 9Oreb Aug 18 2011, 12:50 PM
I do have to agree, everyone I know buils bash/charge/max aura. It does the best damage, the most effective ganking and enables the most damage. Before they have the chance to escape you have put three auto attack in. That easily makes up for the +80 damage a single bash gives you if you max it. When I hit for 100 three times, plus 100 from charge plus 60 from bash.

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# 10Mr. Wrex Aug 20 2011, 18:11 PM
So is Syllable ever going to reply to this thread and at least try to defend what he wrote, or is this "guide" just going to stay on the portal the way it was written, misleading hundreds of poor newbies trying to get better at this game?

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# 11syllable Aug 21 2011, 15:50 PM
Sorry for the late reply guys, I've been quite busy lately.

Anyways, have you guys even tried doing in an actual game what the guide sais? I wouldn't want to be the person saying that a particular bit of food is disgusting without trying it, it might make me look like an idiot afterwards when it appears to be quite tasty.

I'm simply recommending the bash build just because it offers more disable, which yes you do need in so many cases of ganking against heroes like any hero with an easy escape mechanism (Hag, Valkyrie, Silhouette) or heroes that will stop you in your tracks if they have stuns/disables themselves. The aura build is strong I suppose if you go for that, but like said in the guide, it leaves enemies with more space to use abilities of their own, where when being bashed they don't really do anything. Ofcourse bash won't be up 100% of the time, but it will be up a lot more than if just left on leve 1 obviously. Add in you running around all the time, even less cooldown (even though this part isn't affected by the levels). It's kind of a personal preference, and I made mine clear, being the writer of the guide.

About the when to picking part, defiler, soulstealer, thunderbringer, .. those mid heroes are EASILY brought down in early game and you know this. I don't know what you are spewing about defiler being supertanky around the phase when you start ganking (defiler level 5 is known for being unkillable and instantly popping her ultimate when charged). To make sure that this is actually true, you start ganking people fast enough.

About the item build, yes I recommend not getting Helm, and to compensate for it, make Steamboots instead and rush for Shrunken Head. Let's do some quick math right here. Ghost Marchers + Helm = 3725 gold. Then we look at the other option. Steamboots + Mighty Blade = 2450 gold, throw in a Mystic Vestments to add that extra bit of spice, 2850 gold. Ghosts + Helm added to your hero: 300 HP and the 40 damage block. Steamboots + Mighty Blade + Vestments added to your hero: 19 HP per point of strength + the magic resistance from Vestments, which is 380 HP.

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and say that Steamboots + Mighty Blade + Vestments gives you more benefits and will be of more use later on in the game, and actually cost you less.

About the Shrunken Head, Rampage needs this item to be of any use in a teamfight or he'll just eat disable, after disable, after disable until he dies without touching anything after the initial charge. At least this is what happens when playing against somewhat aware teams in the high 1700's low 1900's.

About your advice regarding what Rampage early game should be doing, such as ganking mid, thanks for that but it was actually already in the guide! I direct you to page #4 of the guide, I quote:
QUOTE
This actually rarely happens, but you do meet an Accursed / Valkyrie lane every 300 games or so. Get level 3, gank mid.

Or the other possibility of an early game phase:
QUOTE
Kill them at level 3 or 4. ...[short explanation of how it could be done]...
After this, gank mid


So in conclusion of this post, before you reply again telling me I'm a noob and haven't put any thought in this guide, please actually read it, then try it and then think twice before posting your rants. About the skill build, yes, I suppose you're partially right, but I simply don't like the aura build, and that's my valid opinion which I presented in a constructive manner with another build that I found to be more effective. We can debate a loooooong time about whether being able to stun more is better than hitting harder and slowing more is better. I stand by my opinion and you'll probably stand by yours. I don't feel like having a mule staring contest any time soon.

Thank you for your interest in the guide and replies!

This post has been edited by syllable: Aug 21 2011, 15:51 PM

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# 12Mr. Wrex Aug 23 2011, 13:42 PM
I apologise for my rude tone in my previous posts.

However, sure the basher build is "viable", but damage wise and disable-wise it simply is inferior to the aura build.

You say maxing bash first increases your disable uptime. By what, .5 seconds? That's half an attack by pretty much any hero early in the game, which is about 30-45 damage, whereas if you max the slow first, you will at least get in 2 additional attacks, which are a lot more powerful due to the aura giving a massive damage increase.

If you are in a defensive lane, like 2 melee vs 2 range, then basher might be more viable, due to the increased amounts of bash, resulting in an increased amount of 100% cks that you might not get if bash wasn't up.

Other than that, I strongly suggest going aura first if you want to play rampage to his fullest potential.

As for ghost marchers, I never advised getting them. All they promote is recless play, because you believe you can still get that hero, thus towerdiving and dying in most cases. You also have less hp, making tower diving even less advisable. I'd always get steamboots, they offer a lot of benefits, and they make you play a bit less reckless (at least they make me tongue.gif ) due to the fact that it happens that you lose the enemy, you have no chance of catching up, and just back off.

Also, if you do not get hobtl, how do you justify the amount of xp / gold you lose by having to go back to the fountain to regen and/or buying consumables, which you would not need if you had hobtl?

This post has been edited by Caedus: Aug 23 2011, 13:43 PM

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# 13syllable Aug 23 2011, 15:05 PM
The point of the bash build is allowing you to bash more than once on the person you're ganking, not the increased stun time.

About not getting Helm and not having to go to the fountain all the time, usually if you charge someone they die, and most of the time you don't lose much HP at all, it's only for the times when the enemy team decides to teleport with 2 or 3 allies to save someone that you actually need the HP. All you're actually tanking during a gank is the tower and some creeps, at least most of the times. You don't always have to run back to the fountain after a gank either. You have the option to farm that lane, push it with allies, gank another lane, or in case of low HP you can kill a quick easy neutral camp and back to the fountain, or just go straight to the fountain. About consumables, I don't get any after the laning phase. Ring of the teacher and efficient Steamboots stat swapping help a lot. Helm doesn't give you that much HP regen, it's quite neglectable really. If you're low you're gonna go heal up anyway, and if you're half you would've stuck around even without Helm as well I think. Not much is lost by not getting this item.

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# 14Mr. Wrex Aug 23 2011, 15:24 PM
Hmm, I always keep consumables on me (at least 1-2 pots) if I don't have any real regen items yet, even if the game is 20 mins old.

In my experience you end up receiving a whole lot more damage than just a few creep hits and tower hits, but that might be because I'm not as good a player as you are.

If you're going in for a gank on 2 enemy heroes, the non-charged hero will always be able to damage you. So even if you have 2 allies with you, you'll be the one taking the initial heat, so getting that hobtl is important. Those 40 damage negation hobtl has really piles up. You'd be surprised how much EHP a hobtl is worth with the damage block and the regen.

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# 15syllable Aug 24 2011, 12:26 PM
Well someone is going to be on the receiving end of all the nukes that the hero you gank has, which is usually suprisingly enough, not Rampage. At least where I play (high 1700's low 1900's) people know they won't be able to nuke a Rampage down, so they go for everything but him. A bit like an Armadon.

When they do focus you it usually is because they're not really thinking about anything, but just attacking whatever presents itself. Like in the way that people will try to kill a legionnaire after he has jumped in and used all his abilities ("must ... kill... Legio... but why actually? He got nothing left").

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# 16Mr. Wrex Aug 24 2011, 14:50 PM
You know, revenge. Don't you focus that enemy the most who has killed you the most? If you finally get the chance to take your revenge on that Fayde who's been bugging you all game long, wouldn't you take her out instead of that madman who's just been afk farming all game long and who hasn't bothered you at all? tongue.gif

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# 17Oreb Aug 29 2011, 01:08 AM
I'm way late in replying as well, but I'll add in my 2 cents. And also apologise if I came off rude, which I didn't mean to, but calling one way to build rampage 'the worst' is not a good thing to say.

I do agree with you in how to build rampage, Steamboots/Vestments/Shrunken is pretty much all you ever need in a game. Helm though is needed in some cases, especially when their team is heavily auto-attack based or when you are copping more harass then you would like.

I have tried the max bash build first, ever since they remade rampage I've been trying to see which was best. In the end, I could reliably 2-man gank with the max aura build and put out the most damage and control.

Rampage shouldn't really try ganking solo unless the target is going to die to the Charge/Auto/Bash/Auto and you run off. It's always good to have that trusty hero with you, be it a myrmidon, glacius, pyro, insertwhowasmidhere, etc., whenever you gank.

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