Dawn of War 2

VindicareX... pert!

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# 15*General Nov 22 2011, 02:09 AM
VindicareX is GameReplays' newest Expert!

This post has been edited by 5*General: Nov 22 2011, 02:12 AM

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# 2RagingJenni Nov 22 2011, 02:14 AM
Congratulations!:D
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# 3Equilibrium Nov 22 2011, 02:33 AM
thumb.gif

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# 4Chalji Nov 22 2011, 02:59 AM
Congrats!
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# 5gorays Nov 22 2011, 03:50 AM
Congratz, Vindicare.

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# 6Chokolata Nov 22 2011, 07:11 AM
bout time

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# 7Tsototar Nov 22 2011, 09:12 AM
interesting interview!

I liked one thing he said, about "everything can be beat if you just play better" - I'm wondering if there's any indicator for APMs (as in, actions-per-minute) for DoW2 players? Like, they always talk about the APMs of various SC2 players, do we know how DoW2 games compare, in terms of the APM requirements/averages/etc.? Is this information that is viewable in a replay, say?

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# 8GuruSkippy Nov 22 2011, 09:25 AM
QUOTE(Tsototar @ Nov 22 2011, 11:12 AM) *

I liked one thing he said, about "everything can be beat if you just play better" - I'm wondering if there's any indicator for APMs (as in, actions-per-minute) for DoW2 players? Like, they always talk about the APMs of various SC2 players, do we know how DoW2 games compare, in terms of the APM requirements/averages/etc.? Is this information that is viewable in a replay, say?

you can use a third party program to know it, I used one once, was curious to know my APM in DOW2.
but a higher APM doesn't mean that you play better in DOW2, you don't need a crazy high APM to be good.
ofc, it helps to have a good APM, but DOW2 is more about positionning and timing abilities than APM.

gratz to new expert

This post has been edited by GuruSkippy: Nov 22 2011, 09:33 AM
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# 9Dwighty Nov 22 2011, 09:41 AM
Grats!

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# 10Toilailee Nov 22 2011, 12:44 PM
Gratz. :D
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# 11harrehpottah Nov 22 2011, 14:44 PM
deserved. but man, what fking huge interviews you need to do to become an expert nowadays
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# 12Wurgl Nov 22 2011, 14:46 PM
y lie i never rage

cogratz
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# 13Tsototar Nov 22 2011, 16:00 PM
QUOTE(GuruSkippy @ Nov 22 2011, 17:25 PM) *

you can use a third party program to know it, I used one once, was curious to know my APM in DOW2.
but a higher APM doesn't mean that you play better in DOW2, you don't need a crazy high APM to be good.
ofc, it helps to have a good APM, but DOW2 is more about positionning and timing abilities than APM.


Exactly! That's the thing - it'll provide an additional metric/statistic with which we can gain a greater understanding of a player(s), how a game went, etc -

let's say we have two players that are generally accepted to be about as good as each other (let's leave aside ELO ratings for now). Like, everybody can agree (yes this is hard to believe :-P, I'm trying to come up with an example here) "these two guys, they're about as good as each other". Then you look at their APMs and you see a big difference - one guy is much higher APM than another. You can then draw a conclusion that say guy A is "that good" because he can simply out power people with his rapid fire clicking etc, while the guy B relies more on strategic planning, tactical intelligence, raw cunning whatever.

I'm trying to make a point here, I'm not trying to say one thing can be forgone completely etc - physical limits/ability/speed may not mean everything (I think no amount of micro will let someone take down a wraith lord with guardian squads, for example) but it still matters.

Also - this becomes useful in assessing factions and balance. Let's say you have two players who cannot agree as to whether unit X is OP or not. One argues for, one argues against. Their relative APMs could give a clue as to why they argue so-and-so. In trying to determine this kind of thing, you need as much hard data as possible. You could then assess in a more objective way whether something is balanced or not. Maybe all it really means is that a particular hero or side should simply not be chosen by someone without a particular APM, and trying to balance for those people simply makes it OP/UP otherwise.

Also - there's "known APMs" for SC(2) players. How does DoW2 compare? Maybe if all our top players have lower APMs (duck down and take cover from focussed fire from the >50% of the DoW2 ladder who are better players than me) we haven't seen what true DoW2 play could be like (*). Maybe DoW2 players are already higher than most SC2 players and would crush SC2 players in a clickfest battle, easy. I don't have any stats - does anybody know? If we take SC2 APMs as real life, objective data of what humans can achieve physically, we would be able to assess DoW2 in another objective way as well?

(*): it would also be a selling point of the game in fact, ie "you don't have to be trained in a Korean training camp, tossed into icy rivers every morning and have your fingers flogged with whips for hours, in order to achieve supremacy in this game!!! DoW2 - a game for humans and not machines!!"


This post has been edited by Tsototar: Nov 22 2011, 16:07 PM
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# 145*General Nov 22 2011, 17:04 PM
QUOTE(Tsototar @ Nov 22 2011, 04:12 AM) *

interesting interview!

I liked one thing he said, about "everything can be beat if you just play better" - I'm wondering if there's any indicator for APMs (as in, actions-per-minute) for DoW2 players? Like, they always talk about the APMs of various SC2 players, do we know how DoW2 games compare, in terms of the APM requirements/averages/etc.? Is this information that is viewable in a replay, say?

Honestly, APM isn't a proper measure for DoW 2. APM is a very basic measurement because it only detects physical actions issued to the game. However, DoW 2 is a game where players' input is much more complex than that. The relative fragility of 1/6 or less of a player's force means the best players are just about always jamming number keys to check on squads and issuing slight repositioning commands that don't each much APM, but require significant concentration and thought to achieve significant results.

@SuperTune: Yes, your post is invis, and here's your explanation-
We've got this thing called a Fair Play Forum. VindicareX here has fared pretty well with it, and as you can see he's not on the blacklist nor have we taken any action against him because we haven't gotten the verified reports to do so. You, sir, have submitted absolutely nothing to our Fair Play Forums, and thus have zero ground to stand on to make such accusations. If you feel so strongly about the issue, then report all instances of cheating.

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# 15ParanoidKami Nov 22 2011, 18:51 PM
APM really doesn't matter that much. Personally, I have around 30-40 apm and I manage to fight evenly versus guys like Tex, Holy, Jamus, and Tarik. Well they beat me most of the time since I play less, but I do win occasionally tongue.gif As for SC2 everyone there talks about high apm yet I have seen some master level players with only about 70 apm and they do fine. There comes a point in apm where all of your clicks above a certain level are just clicks to be clicks and don't actually increase your performance. These extra clicks are just to keep your apm ready just in case something happens.

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# 16GuruSkippy Nov 22 2011, 19:13 PM
QUOTE(ParanoidKami @ Nov 22 2011, 20:51 PM) *
Personally, I have around 30-40 apm

have you used a 3d party program to measure this ?
personnally, when I used it on DOW2, I was surprised, and I'm not a crazy clicker at all.
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# 17Wurgl Nov 22 2011, 19:29 PM

Most Wanted
Occasionally, there are individuals who are widely accused by the community of cheating, but evidence of such does not show up in our Fair Play Forums- or not enough of it.

- n8crawler

srsly?

if that guy is not a confirmed cheater then im the queen of egland

and ye feel free to invis this post since it has npthing to do with vindis knighthood but i had to get that out of my system
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# 18MeteorVsBunny Nov 22 2011, 19:33 PM
I thought he was already confirmed - didn't bother submitting
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# 19texaneous Nov 22 2011, 19:40 PM
All this talk of APM reminds me of way back in the days of warcraft3. Myself and a couple other guys only averaged around 145 and we were stacked up against "pros" with 300 plus. Needless to say those extra clicks were only taking away from the time they should have spent thinking, reading, and reacting tongue.gif.

As far as dow2 goes, I would be very curious to check my apm. I can definitely see it being somewhere around 120 in big fights, but its probably abysmal at all other times lol.

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# 20Dullahan Nov 22 2011, 20:22 PM
One of the things I like about DoW2 is its a game that really rewards out maneuvering your opponent, and even a superior or equal opponent can be steamrolled if you play well. (Course, vice versa is true as well)

Gratz Vindi, well deserved.

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