Dawn of War 2

Ogryns

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# 1UBER_CHOMIK Jan 28 2012, 02:43 AM
At the beginning I'd like to say, that I've played DoW II 775 hours which 99% of it is team battles.
I know that there are many, many better players, but I just wanted to point, that I'm not a noob or newbie.

And to the point:

Ogrins domino effect (or whatever the name was) was nerfed too much.

1) It was the only really good unit from IG (except Manticore and Melta Storm Troopers).
2) It is the only melee non-hero unit.
3) It is the only unit with some bigger health.

And when in a game few days before, 2 of 4 of my Ogrins were knocked back by HALF OF THE LVL 1 HORMAGAUNTS... then there is just something wrong about it.

Sadly I didn't record that game.

This is substantive part.


You don't need to read the rest, cause it is mostly my complaining.



So:

How is IG supposed to deal with ASM, Bloodletters, Khornes, Banshees, Hormagaunts, Warriors, Sluggas and ffs any other melee unit in the game after You nerf the only unit for the job?

And of course it can handle - You can build heavy bolters, bunkers and stuff. But that is not the point. Cause bunkers are killed by flamers and so on. Paper scisors rocks... but You left IG dudes with only Paper and rock.

The point is that Chaos and SM are still a bit OP races and the only things that can counter them are nerfed. Something is wrong.

And I do not understand people that says that IG is OP. Manticore is good, but it can be easily taken by many means and units, cause it is made of paper.

Extra armor for vehicles is a joke. It still would be if it would have had 10 sec building time, but then it would be at least usefull.

Leman Russ that is one of the heaviest tank in TT is a joke. It's Laser Cannon is not merely as good as normal from hwt. It's armor in TT in front is as good as Land Raider's and sides are almost as tough - I do not see that idea of a steel, slow monster-tank transferred to DoW. The Executioner cannon is wast of money, but at least can be usefull against blobs. But Vanquisher which is one of the ultimate AV weapons, here can go and cry silently in the corner couse it is not a match to a simple predator with laser cannons.

Baneblade? Lol. Yeah. 3000 hp. Only good thing - main cannon. So they shortened it range. Demolisher is good, but it can be avoided. 2 Laser cannons seams to do almost nothing, but are still better then 3 twin-linked heavy bolters that really does nothing. And even that they are twin-linked HEAVY bolters they do not suppress, unless attacking unit is exactly in front and got cought by all three on approach.

Good job there.

So that's for playing with vehicles.

And mass infantry that IG should be good at?

First: basic 6 guardsmen cost 230, which is less then sluggas that costs 270 now. But with sergeant (which is necessary) it is already 315. And then You need to buy Commissar 390/20 and plasma guns 490/45...

Quite expensive. If you want to do 3 units and Chimera to not run away at every time You get hit by flamers/Galaxy Will burn/Zoanthrop/Plasma devs/stickbommbz etc. etc. It will cost You 1770 req and 205 power + 90/20 x3 to give poor chimera any chance against rocket launchers (which cost only 80/40 and two hits are almost enough to kill it).

So that's a no.

Cause after spending resources on that comes bloodcrusher or deff dread or any vehicle and kills everything You have.



And for the end. Yes I play IG. I had 60 army level and Elo around 2800. It's not much but it got reseted by a bug when I was going from level 59 to level 60. I play IG a lot. I like them still, casue they are challenging race to play. I know different tactics and I play with different units.

But they are not a strong race. And their strong sides have been overweakened.

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# 2geg_ma3gau Jan 28 2012, 07:12 AM
Ogryns are like nobs but in T2. The unit is striking me as something wrong in the game's picture. Super heavy armor, 2k hp lvl 1, 4 models, 33 melee heavy each. Its wrong really, how ig gets away with this kind of stuff in t2 is amazing. I wish they get nerfed to more realistic T2 level of strength. And i mean not nerfed by domino strength.

Dont get me started on sentinel or manti or storms.

This post has been edited by geg_ma3gau: Jan 28 2012, 07:18 AM

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# 3Riserise Jan 28 2012, 07:54 AM
Ogryns are truly one of Emperor's gifts to IG. People grief about them constantly, not because they are weak, but because they are so damn good.

l2p?
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# 4Gokkel Jan 28 2012, 11:02 AM
You forget Catachans as a melee unit (well, they are really a melee / short range hybrid unit).

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# 5Cyridius Jan 28 2012, 11:09 AM
2 tac rockets almost enough to kill a chim?

Lawlllllllllll
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# 6mankind Jan 28 2012, 11:57 AM
i kno the dude.
ltp is the correct answer.
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# 7UBER_CHOMIK Jan 28 2012, 11:57 AM
Ah... and of course en masse attack of "the pros" and insults.

Yes. Catachans are not bad in cc/short range. But as all IG they die quite easily, and even if You end with enemy assault marines retreating as well, he will use

550/85 with 2 sergeants. A bit expensive. But let see a fight against Assaults with seargant 600/75. Even if they will loose 2 men and retreat, I will loose all except like 2 guys. It will cost me about 6 x 33/3 = 198/18, they will use 166/16. Not much difference, but still. And I can't have a melta bomb wink.gif.

As for Ogrins.

Ogrins health: 1275 at start, 1825 with Bone 'ead.

Assault hp: 1200 hp at start, 1600 with seargant.

200hp difference from Assaults. So don't whine me, about "Almost 2k health" cause You have something the same. And Assaults can jump and knockback ogrins, can throw melta bomb on vehicles and can knock them back in the regular fight!

And You didn't of course bother to notice the only 6 point of damage difference and the type is really effective against same things except superheavies.

And that is great that I have so high damage. Especially when half of it is lying on the ground getting salughtered.

Come on. I'm not saying Ogrins are bad. I could live with special attacks of heroes or elite units like termies or nobs to knock them back. But not damn hormagaunts!

And stop saying that Ogrins are like Nobs, just t2. Yeah, fucking right. They also have hammers then in seconds can kill almost any tank, they too can be boosted with waagh and fire up "You can't kill me and suppress me know" button when global is set upon them, or they just feel like doing it anyway.

So yeah... Ogrins are totally like nobs.

I hoped for some cultural discussion, but I see that it is not possible here. Pitty. I had higher hopes for this community.

This post has been edited by UBER_CHOMIK: Jan 28 2012, 12:11 PM

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# 8geg_ma3gau Jan 28 2012, 12:38 PM
Yes bro i feel your pain both assaults and ogryns are stupid op i agree. I ve always said that. Assaults being slightly stompy doesnt mean that ogryns should spank anything in sight including walkers, vehicles and melee heroes + pretty much ignore piercing/pvp damage type in other words doing something that nobs or terminators are usually seen doing.

I think hormagaunts shouldnt be able to knock down anything as their melee leap i think (i might be wrong) doesnt knock down things.

I havent insulted you in any way its our retarded community sorry.

I dont like ogryns dont like manti dont like storms and sent they are all too good.

This post has been edited by geg_ma3gau: Jan 28 2012, 12:46 PM

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# 9Johnny McGorry Jan 28 2012, 12:43 PM
frankly ogryn will counter everything that the enemy can throw at them bedsides mass plasma/inferno damage and knockdown, especially when coupled with the 2xgm and chim you should have.

also ogryn ARE like nobs in t2, but they cost way less so don't expect them to have the ability nobs have for 40/40 for 15 power, but nobs still aren't half as tanky unless you spend that 140 power (in addition to t3) because of the SHI of ogryn.

This post has been edited by Johnny McGorry: Jan 28 2012, 13:19 PM
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# 10Cyridius Jan 28 2012, 12:52 PM
Did you just compare catachans and Ogryns to ASMs?

There is literally no reply to something that stupid that can sufficiently encompass everything wrong you've said, but allow me to try.

Firstly, you clearly have no comprehension of the game's mechanics. A hormagaunt squad does not have the melee skill to knock anything in this game back. Infact, the only squad in the game that can get consistant melee specials on Ogryns is genestealers.
Ogryns are in no way like ASMs. ASMs don't even do power melee damage type. If they did the anti-all heavy_melee damage type their dps would still be noticably inferior to Ogryns. With a sergeant they're still inferior. With a Bone 'Ead Ogryns are obviously superior. And more expensive. Again, they are nothing alike, saying because one has 1600HP and the other has 1875HP therefore they are the same is like saying a scout squad and a csm squad are the same because they both have 3 models. You are totally wrong in every aspect of your post. Space Marines do not have an equivalent to an Ogryn squad.
Ogryns are, within limits, a t2 Nob squad. They're much cheaper, do not constantly drain red and have are not lacking in external buffs aswell. Silently with the Inquisitor, Move! Move! Move! With the Lord General, and Bionic Eye with the Commie Lord(though the effectiveness has been reduced). Your unknowledgeable assumption that an Ork has limitless resources to just spam Waaagh and Frenzy, along with being able to get th most expensive squad upgrades iin the game shows experiience at the lowest of levels. With opinions like that how do you expect a serious response? Ogryns are thought of by many - dare I say most - to be an overpowered unit and here you are saying the opposite. I don't know how you're using your Ogryns, but clearly somewhere your play style has gone wrong. Ogryns can do what Nobz do fully kitted out, with reduced effectiveness I'll admit, but practically half the price.

And now on to your weird statements about Catachans. Ofcourse asn ASM squad with a sergeant beats a Chan squad. But in tier 1 it's the total opposite. Chans do a lot of power melee damage type, and a fair deal of ranged damage as well as being cheaper and having more abilities than ASM. Ofcourse there has to be a downside to them or else they would be OP. Claiming "oh ASMs have meltas" would suit you just fine, but you seem to have happily excluded the costs involved. Not to mention the Chan Sarge has a melta gun. And stormtroopers are the best mobile AV in the game. Your statements are just simply incorrect. You're trying to put all the units you want to randomly and illogically compare - despite the fact they are nothing alike - in an arena and just have them fight. It doesn't work like that.

And for the love of Jesus, a tac squad missile launcher takes about 4 hits on the rear armour to kill a chim.

Thisa is just a ridiciulous troll thread, and while I may not be sure on the whole genes being the only unit being able to reliably knock Ogryns back - I think Ogryn MS is 70 so I should be correct - this is just a tupid thread about non existent Ogryn under performance when the situation is the opposite.
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# 11Rokco Jan 28 2012, 14:29 PM
QUOTE(WNxBizzie @ Jan 28 2012, 12:52 PM) *

Spoiler

Did you just compare catachans and Ogryns to ASMs?

There is literally no reply to something that stupid that can sufficiently encompass everything wrong you've said, but allow me to try.

Firstly, you clearly have no comprehension of the game's mechanics. A hormagaunt squad does not have the melee skill to knock anything in this game back. Infact, the only squad in the game that can get consistant melee specials on Ogryns is genestealers.
Ogryns are in no way like ASMs. ASMs don't even do power melee damage type. If they did the anti-all heavy_melee damage type their dps would still be noticably inferior to Ogryns. With a sergeant they're still inferior. With a Bone 'Ead Ogryns are obviously superior. And more expensive. Again, they are nothing alike, saying because one has 1600HP and the other has 1875HP therefore they are the same is like saying a scout squad and a csm squad are the same because they both have 3 models. You are totally wrong in every aspect of your post. Space Marines do not have an equivalent to an Ogryn squad.
Ogryns are, within limits, a t2 Nob squad. They're much cheaper, do not constantly drain red and have are not lacking in external buffs aswell. Silently with the Inquisitor, Move! Move! Move! With the Lord General, and Bionic Eye with the Commie Lord(though the effectiveness has been reduced). Your unknowledgeable assumption that an Ork has limitless resources to just spam Waaagh and Frenzy, along with being able to get th most expensive squad upgrades iin the game shows experiience at the lowest of levels. With opinions like that how do you expect a serious response? Ogryns are thought of by many - dare I say most - to be an overpowered unit and here you are saying the opposite. I don't know how you're using your Ogryns, but clearly somewhere your play style has gone wrong. Ogryns can do what Nobz do fully kitted out, with reduced effectiveness I'll admit, but practically half the price.

And now on to your weird statements about Catachans. Ofcourse asn ASM squad with a sergeant beats a Chan squad. But in tier 1 it's the total opposite. Chans do a lot of power melee damage type, and a fair deal of ranged damage as well as being cheaper and having more abilities than ASM. Ofcourse there has to be a downside to them or else they would be OP. Claiming "oh ASMs have meltas" would suit you just fine, but you seem to have happily excluded the costs involved. Not to mention the Chan Sarge has a melta gun. And stormtroopers are the best mobile AV in the game. Your statements are just simply incorrect. You're trying to put all the units you want to randomly and illogically compare - despite the fact they are nothing alike - in an arena and just have them fight. It doesn't work like that.

And for the love of Jesus, a tac squad missile launcher takes about 4 hits on the rear armour to kill a chim.

Thisa is just a ridiciulous troll thread, and while I may not be sure on the whole genes being the only unit being able to reliably knock Ogryns back - I think Ogryn MS is 70 so I should be correct - this is just a tupid thread about non existent Ogryn under performance when the situation is the opposite.



Here here.

I hear what you are saying about IG Tier 3 and the lack of effectiveness of their tank and it's upgrades, but, you want it's lascannon on a LR or BB to be as powerful as a lascannon set up? wow.

And IG Tier 2 is great - every Tier 2 IG unit can be considered slightly OTT - Ogryns are just a beast of a Tier 2 unit, Storms for great AV or huge range and damage and the best unit in the game to buy if you are floating a ton of req (compared to brightlance/bustas/plasma dev who are situational), maticores, who are very expensive but probably the best artillery unit in the game a lot of the time, especially in 3v3. And of course the chim, who, although sort of expensive now, has huge damage and great synergy with gm squads.

If you want to look at underperforming IG squads look at it's tank, and discounting buggy HWT, most else is fine.

Also - ASM get melta, but Catas get meltagun, ole reliable, shotgun blast, smoke bomb, are a detector, have mines, power melee, better ranged dmg than ASM. OH noes! plz nerf! Don't take things out of context.


and for the love of the Emperor, it's OGRYNS, with a "Y", as in Y U NO SPELL IT RIGHT EVEN THOUGH YOU PLAY IG AND HAVE HAD NUMEROUS REPLIES BY PEOPLE SPELLING IT WITH A Y?

This post has been edited by Rokco: Jan 28 2012, 14:33 PM
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# 12UBER_CHOMIK Jan 28 2012, 15:05 PM
I just love when people twist my words or put in my mouth something I didn't say. So fun.

For anyone of you, who have no idea, what rhetoric is: the sentance "2 Laser cannons seams to do almost nothing" DOES NOT have the same meaning as "they should be improved". No. They are ok. As fan of IG I wish they would be overpowered and kill everything in it's path (muahaha) but I understand that they shouldn't be like that, because it would unbalance the game. It's just that Baneblade seems to me as a mobile platform for 2 main cannons (which are good, for those who needs big letters to understand), with other weapons doing barely noticeable damage.


Going back to subject:

First of all: I NEVER said Ogryns are bad. NEVER. They are good. Very good indeed.

Whole purpose of me writing here was to express my astonishment of Ogryns getting knockedback by hormagaunts. To be exact 4 of hormagaunts.
Second reason: I saw a survey here that showed 25% of people voting IG is the most OP race in game... which shocked me a little bit, but hey... everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

YES, IT DID HAPPEN. I will try to recreate the situation with my friend on skirmish.

Maybe it was just a one in a million shot to happen. BUT. IT. DID. HAPPEN.

YES, I think Ogryns, Manticores, Melta Storm Troopers are one of the best units in the game. And only really good in IG army. For those who needs big letters: really good means over average. Not the only good.

YES, IG T2 IS GREAT. But it can be hard to get to T2 on 2v2 or 1v1, when SM will spam You with ASM and just won't allow to get there. Or when You get there and march out with Your Ogryns... what can they do against 2 or 3 ASM squads? Yes, they will maybe even kill 1, but other 2 will just slaughter them.

In fact IG T2 is so great, that I lately wasn't even advancing T3 in team battles and it worked quite fine.

YES, if You use Infiltration or Move! Move! Move! on Ogryns it will be good. But You can use healing/advance healing, battle cry, mark target when You are playing SM, so let's not involve hero abilities in it, ok?

P.S. I am not a troll. I am not as much pro as others on this forum are pretending to be (and some really are), but I didn't start with offending anyone. You did.
P.P.S. Thx geg_ma3gau for the only polite and kind response. Altough I sense a little bit of sarcasm there? Or maybe it's just my imagination wink.gif.
P.P.P.S. As I can bet my definition of pro gamer isn't the same as yours appears to be, I will lay it down to you:

"For me pro gamer is a person, who has advanced skills in a mentioned game and behave as a leader and a mentor for a weaker ones, assuming that both sides are approaching each other with respect and politeness."

So if I offended anyone, I am truly sorry. But I won't stand calmly against rudness.

And one last thing: if only genestealers with upgrade can knockback ogryns, how is that yesterday in 2v2 game against 2 SM half of my 2 ogryn squads were mostly lying on the ground when faced a SM blob containing about 3 ASM 2 tacticals and 1 scouts? And I am not refereing to initial ASM jump. I mean in regular melee fight afterwards.

And for all those who so eager tell me to "ltp":

1. So great that our beautiful civilization is so lazy to not even write: learn to play.
2. From whom I should "learn how to play" if You the "top elite masters of the world itself" can offer me only mockery, lack of elementary culture and slowly dying brain cells?

This post has been edited by UBER_CHOMIK: Jan 28 2012, 15:20 PM

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# 13Reki Jan 28 2012, 15:36 PM
QUOTE(UBER_CHOMIK @ Jan 28 2012, 23:05 PM) *
1v1, when SM will spam You with ASM

I'm sorry but I stopped reading here

As polite as you want the thread to be, it's just not gonna happen when you state lolclaims like hormos with shit melee skill flipping over ogryns and SM players having generators built off-map to gain unexplainable amounts of vespane. You're gonna have to produce a replay otherwise people here will be buttmad due to you insinuating that we're ignorant.
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# 14Cyridius Jan 28 2012, 15:47 PM
Um, let me just scetch over your first posts;

Apparently IG have no efficient counter to melee
The only good units you have are manti/Ogryns/STs
Ogryns get beaten by ASMs
A tac rocket kills a chim in 2 shots
And apparently hormas knock back Ogryns. I'm curious, what was going on when this happened? Were the hormas under AG Synapse? Were the Ogryns walking? Did the hormas knockback OTHER units?

And for crying out loud, in what scenario is 3 ASMs realistic?

All I see from your posts it talking about other units being OP and harping about IG being weak as if this was a game of rock paper scissors. I've no inclination to be "polite" to somebody who uses ridiculous generalizations like you.

Do I deny IG has weak spots? No. Infact I frequently in most topics about IG call for their ACTUAL weak spots to be buffed, unlike the ficition that Ogryns have been nerfed too much. Do you know what domino knockback does? It's how much a unit is knockedback when another unit is thrown into it, so unless in your situatuion the hormas were knocking things into your Ogryns, nothing should happen.

"pro" tip; Sentinel or catachans for countering melee, Ogryns for set up teams and ranged units.

This shouldn't even be in balance section. The strat section is where you should go before bringing up concerns like this in balance...
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# 15Mor2ton Jan 28 2012, 16:21 PM
I think orgyns should be rather compared to walkers, as they are meant to be linebrekers and that doesnt work with chain knock back. Simply reducing dommino effect without any field test was just stupid. Try to take 2x ogryns and use ability they knock back each other, I understand they can knock back small gm, but not each other lol.
People here tends to just bitch about ogryns as they are t2 nobs, just remiding you - other races got walkers, for just 20 energy more(140-120=20).
Another thing is, ogryns dont synergy with ig race as good as you say so- they cant be quickly reinforced on field, med pack works much better on gm, it takes ages to heal&reinforce.

About hormas,i think it same happend to me with them knocking back ogryns(need to lab that), generally many units can do that now. Also ogryns move slow(yes i know, same speed as gm) becouse they tend to block on units, object and it could be just me but i think they stand up so slow.
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# 16BobTheDespoiler Jan 28 2012, 18:21 PM
I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but I would think that with AG synapse it might be possible for hormas to knock back ogryns? The thing is though, that has NOTHING to do with domino if I understand it correctly. They would have knocked them down before this change too, a special attack is a special attack regardless.

I agree you're being put on a bit here, people aren't really reading what you're saying, but thats kinda how it is here sometimes (all the time).

I also personally think theres a bit of disconnect as you play team games, not 1v1 correct? Ogryns, in my opinion at least, are far less powerful in team games as they are more likely to walk into mass firepower. In 1v1 they can be brutal to counter on their own due to SHI, but in 2v2/3v3 you can blob up more and if you dont have counters, one of your teammates probably will. Just my 2 cents.

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# 17UBER_CHOMIK Jan 28 2012, 18:41 PM
@Mor2ton:

Exactly. With two squad it is quite riddiculous.

@BobTheDespoiler:

Thanks for reading it whole smile.gif.

For You and all others:

CLARIFICATION: I am reffering to 3v3 battles only. And there, going with Ogryns to suppress weapons under fire of 2 tacs or something is not the best way.

As I played 1v1 2 times, I lost one to 3000 Elo playing SM. And won to 2933 Eldar dude. And yes - there Ogryns and Banewolf saved my ass. And for this I can provide a replay.


QUOTE(WNxBizzie @ Jan 28 2012, 15:47 PM) *

Um, let me just scetch over your first posts;

Apparently IG have no efficient counter to melee
The only good units you have are manti/Ogryns/STs
Ogryns get beaten by ASMs
A tac rocket kills a chim in 2 shots
And apparently hormas knock back Ogryns. I'm curious, what was going on when this happened? Were the hormas under AG Synapse? Were the Ogryns walking? Did the hormas knockback OTHER units?

And for crying out loud, in what scenario is 3 ASMs realistic?


1. It has less effective and in overall more expensive in reinforce counter, yes.
2. The only units BETTER THEN AVERAGE. That means:... hell... if You do not understand it, I can't explain it better. Guardsmen for example are average: good in some ways, vulnerable in others, just good. Ogryns, Manticores and Melta Storm Troopers are VERY GOOD. Is that clear now?
3. Until the time You have Ogryns, enemy can have 2 Assaluts and some tacs, and yes, that beats Ogryns. 1 Ogryn squad vs. 1 Assault Squad = Ogryn winds, and they should, couse they cost 550/120 and Assaults 600/75.
4. 2 rockets are CLOSE to kill chimera. At least for me it puts it in danger zone in which it must be retreaded and repaired.
5. I will try to procure the replay. It happened on Typhoon Arena as I recall, Top left point. It was captured by enemy (unknown at the time) and my Ogryns were the closest units. So I sent them. 4 Hormagaunts were just leaving the spot so I engaged them. I'm not sure if I used the skill. And I killed them quite quickly. But before it happened they knocked in some miraculus way, 2 of my Ogryns. I was talking to my friend (with which I will try to recreate the scene), he can witness it, if I ask him. There was nothing else around. No units. No heroes. That's why I was so fucking shocked.

Yes. I met 3 ASMs many times. Especially with Apothecary, but sometimes with FC.


QUOTE(WNxBizzie @ Jan 28 2012, 15:47 PM) *

All I see from your posts it talking about other units being OP and harping about IG being weak as if this was a game of rock paper scissors. I've no inclination to be "polite" to somebody who uses ridiculous generalizations like you.


FOR THE FUCK SAKE. Where, point me where I said other units are OP? I dare You.
I said, and it was a digression, that I think Chaos and SM a bit OP and it is THE ONLY SENTANCE ABOUT OP.
So please. Learn to read before You tell me to learn to play.

QUOTE(WNxBizzie @ Jan 28 2012, 15:47 PM) *

Do I deny IG has weak spots? No. Infact I frequently in most topics about IG call for their ACTUAL weak spots to be buffed, unlike the ficition that Ogryns have been nerfed too much. Do you know what domino knockback does? It's how much a unit is knockedback when another unit is thrown into it, so unless in your situatuion the hormas were knocking things into your Ogryns, nothing should happen.

"pro" tip; Sentinel or catachans for countering melee, Ogryns for set up teams and ranged units.


I understand. But I am not a programmer. I don't know how it affected the game. Like I still don't know why if You order IG Heavy Weapon Team to attack a specified target - those 3 morons will run to it, making it easy to melee the whole unit, thus making it useless.

So maybe in some way it did affect the whole knockbacking thing for Ogryns.

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# 18Asmon Jan 28 2012, 18:43 PM
Since they removed the +1 speed to horma AG upgrade and gave them a default leap into melee, horma tend to randomly KB stuff (without any synapse around), from regular Guardians to leveled heroes.

What happened to your ogrins is merely another example of this new feature/bug.

Life is cruel.

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# 19Cyridius Jan 28 2012, 19:00 PM
QUOTE(UBER_CHOMIK @ Jan 28 2012, 18:41 PM) *

@Mor2ton:

Exactly. With two squad it is quite riddiculous.

@BobTheDespoiler:

Thanks for reading it whole smile.gif.

For You and all others:

CLARIFICATION: I am reffering to 3v3 battles only. And there, going with Ogryns to suppress weapons under fire of 2 tacs or something is not the best way.

As I played 1v1 2 times, I lost one to 3000 Elo playing SM. And won to 2933 Eldar dude. And yes - there Ogryns and Banewolf saved my ass. And for this I can provide a replay.
1. It has less effective and in overall more expensive in reinforce counter, yes.
2. The only units BETTER THEN AVERAGE. That means:... hell... if You do not understand it, I can't explain it better. Guardsmen for example are average: good in some ways, vulnerable in others, just good. Ogryns, Manticores and Melta Storm Troopers are VERY GOOD. Is that clear now?
3. Until the time You have Ogryns, enemy can have 2 Assaluts and some tacs, and yes, that beats Ogryns. 1 Ogryn squad vs. 1 Assault Squad = Ogryn winds, and they should, couse they cost 550/120 and Assaults 600/75.
4. 2 rockets are CLOSE to kill chimera. At least for me it puts it in danger zone in which it must be retreaded and repaired.
5. I will try to procure the replay. It happened on Typhoon Arena as I recall, Top left point. It was captured by enemy (unknown at the time) and my Ogryns were the closest units. So I sent them. 4 Hormagaunts were just leaving the spot so I engaged them. I'm not sure if I used the skill. And I killed them quite quickly. But before it happened they knocked in some miraculus way, 2 of my Ogryns. I was talking to my friend (with which I will try to recreate the scene), he can witness it, if I ask him. There was nothing else around. No units. No heroes. That's why I was so fucking shocked.

Yes. I met 3 ASMs many times. Especially with Apothecary, but sometimes with FC.
FOR THE FUCK SAKE. Where, point me where I said other units are OP? I dare You.
I said, and it was a digression, that I think Chaos and SM a bit OP and it is THE ONLY SENTANCE ABOUT OP.
So please. Learn to read before You tell me to learn to play.
I understand. But I am not a programmer. I don't know how it affected the game. Like I still don't know why if You order IG Heavy Weapon Team to attack a specified target - those 3 morons will run to it, making it easy to melee the whole unit, thus making it useless.

So maybe in some way it did affect the whole knockbacking thing for Ogryns.


Mkay, so maybe I was being an arrogant dick. I was reading what you were saying but coming up with assumptions etc, sorry I guess.

On to the real point of the thread, hormas SHOULDNT knock back Ogryns in any case. Has nothin gto do with domino knockback, I think hormas only have like 55MS, so they won't knock back even a moving Ogryn squad, even under synapse. Unless the melee skill on hormas was ninja changed there is no reason why this can happen in any situation. Not saying it didn't happen, just that it SHOULD be impossible. If it happens again upload the replay - I'll try keep an eye out for it.
I know that while using hormas as HT I've knocked back moving tacs and devestator squads - but they're at 60MS, 10 less than Ogryns. It really should be impossible though...
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# 20UBER_CHOMIK Jan 28 2012, 19:10 PM
QUOTE(WNxBizzie @ Jan 28 2012, 19:00 PM) *

Mkay, so maybe I was being an arrogant dick. I was reading what you were saying but coming up with assumptions etc, sorry I guess.

(...)

It really should be impossible though...


Thank You smile.gif. Fair treating is the only thing I expect.

Indeed it is out of my mind such situation. If we successfully procure such a replay or it will happen again, I will post it and inform about it.
And that is why I started this thread. For me, this should be made impossible. But as I started writing about it, some of my wishes and regrets came out too. Maybe in a bit too agressive or too complaining way and for that I am sorry.

This post has been edited by UBER_CHOMIK: Jan 28 2012, 20:01 PM

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