Dawn of War 2

No apo

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# 41VindicareX Feb 1 2012, 03:27 AM
Apo is good, but to win you have to heavily outplay your opponent in the strategy/macro section and in the actual engagements to a lesser extent. Sure he can win fights, but anything Apo can do Fc and TM can do 2x better and more. Playing Apo is putting a handicap on yourself. That's why he is never played and that's why he needs buffs - last patch was just retarded.

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# 42j3st3r Feb 1 2012, 06:52 AM
QUOTE(VindicareX @ Feb 1 2012, 13:27 PM) *
That's why he is never played and that's why FC and TM need nerfs.


fixed it for you. ;]

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# 43VindicareX Feb 1 2012, 07:05 AM
QUOTE(j3st3r @ Feb 1 2012, 06:52 AM) *

fixed it for you. ;]


yea.....no.

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# 44JG Wentworth Feb 1 2012, 07:54 AM
QUOTE(VindicareX @ Feb 1 2012, 03:27 AM) *

Apo is good, but to win you have to heavily outplay your opponent in the strategy/macro section and in the actual engagements to a lesser extent.


Sorry, but I have to call you on this - if you have to outplay your opponent in every way to win, your hero is by definition not "good". This isn't elementary school, not everyone can be above average. wink.gif

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# 45Gokkel Feb 1 2012, 10:24 AM
QUOTE(j3st3r @ Feb 1 2012, 07:52 AM) *

fixed it for you. ;]



SM op.

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# 46Acra Feb 1 2012, 11:58 AM
QUOTE(VindicareX @ Feb 1 2012, 04:27 AM) *

Apo is good, but to win you have to heavily outplay your opponent in the strategy/macro section and in the actual engagements to a lesser extent. Sure he can win fights, but anything Apo can do Fc and TM can do 2x better and more. Playing Apo is putting a handicap on yourself. That's why he is never played and that's why he needs buffs - last patch was just retarded.



sorry vindi, but fc needs nerfs. apo is not that underpowered. only fc is so much more better.
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# 47Da beazt Feb 1 2012, 12:42 PM
IMHO apo needs a buff, Force commander needs a nerf and techmarine is fine smile.gif
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# 48Don Qichoka Feb 1 2012, 13:48 PM
TM is Fine, he's got a good selection of wargear and base abilities and only a couple of weak ones (Blessing of the Omnissiah) which are balanced by some very strong abilities (plasma gun, mark target etc).

FC is overpowered by dint of three/four pieces of wargear - Iron Halo which is exceptionally strong (5:1 damage to energy conversion?) and absurdly cheap, Armour of Alacrity which allows his 360 tracking specials to connect, and Thunder Hammer / Power Fist which does tons of damage, is anti-all and is also very cheap.

In summary: because of his speed he cannot be kited, because of his damage he cannot be melee'd, and because of his bubble he cannot be focused.
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# 49Punch Manchunk Feb 1 2012, 18:59 PM
QUOTE(Don Qichoka @ Feb 1 2012, 13:48 PM) *

TM is Fine, he's got a good selection of wargear and base abilities and only a couple of weak ones (Blessing of the Omnissiah) which are balanced by some very strong abilities (plasma gun, mark target etc).

FC is overpowered by dint of three/four pieces of wargear - Iron Halo which is exceptionally strong (5:1 damage to energy conversion?) and absurdly cheap, Armour of Alacrity which allows his 360 tracking specials to connect, and Thunder Hammer / Power Fist which does tons of damage, is anti-all and is also very cheap.

In summary: because of his speed he cannot be kited, because of his damage he cannot be melee'd, and because of his bubble he cannot be focused.


Allow me to be that really annoying person that nitpicks small things.

5:1 damage conversion is the standard of all bubbles except for Commissar lords bubble that he starts of with. The bubble also adds knockback immunity which ontop of being the cheapest bubble making it the best bubble second to none.

The rest I agree with you.

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# 50Cyris Feb 1 2012, 19:45 PM
Complaints about SM commander wargear would hold so much water if the base units in the faction were better. How often do you see SM win a match where a tac squad goes down? Contrast that by how often a nid wins while losing a few gaunt and ripper squads, or an IG losing two sents, or an ork losing a shoota and a slugga.

Many (myself included) see FC as the current best commander on the most popular race (for largely fluff reasons). This hardly makes him broken. I've still not seen SM top any tournaments, no matter which how strong the current "OP SM commander" was. Apoth did not deserve the treatment he got this patch. He was good, yes. And now he's not. So who wins there? Isn't the game best when there are as many viable top tier race/commander pairs as possible? I was totally in favor of removing the degenerate combo his heal had with +regen stats, but bumping him down to his current status was a bad choice.
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# 51RagingJenni Feb 1 2012, 20:39 PM
How often does a competent player lose a tac squad? They start out at almost 1000 HP Heavy infantry. post-13661-1143531603.gif
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# 52Caeltos Feb 1 2012, 21:54 PM
I remember back in the old days when tacticals had 1050 hp

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# 53Cyris Feb 1 2012, 23:15 PM
QUOTE(Caeltos @ Feb 1 2012, 21:54 PM) *

I remember back in the old days when tacticals had 1050 hp


Or when they didn't even have heavy armor!

DoW2 has changed so very much since initial release. It's been a fun ride for sure happy.gif
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# 54Nuclear Arbitor Feb 2 2012, 00:09 AM
and talking about losing a squad and losing the game, losing a banshee squad is horrible and they have much less health and infantry armour

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# 55Caeltos Feb 2 2012, 00:51 AM
I remember when Banshees were fluffy and cool in the Dawn of War 2 beta. I miss most of the races racial aspects and stuff.

Cept for nids, they were quite ridicilous. Oh and eldar vs SM with razorback spam and snipers.

and bubbleboy being worse then he was now.

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# 56RagingJenni Feb 2 2012, 03:00 AM
How was the banshees when they were more fluffy? I always thought them being insanely fast high DPS glass cannons was very fluff accurate. post-13661-1143531603.gif My eldar lore knowledge is low though.
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# 57j3st3r Feb 2 2012, 03:03 AM
The issue I see with buffing SM squads is that most of them are || this close to being op. Tacs that don't bleed, asm with double jump, scouts with immortal sarges, librarian synergy, dread inspire bonus, termies, landraider retreat beacon, etc. All the stuff that very good or lucky SM play brings grown men to rage and shed tears.

I'm at work, so my creativity has been sucked away, perhaps others have interesting suggestions for how to avoid them living up to the fluff in their codex? ;]

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# 58Nuclear Arbitor Feb 2 2012, 03:20 AM
burn the codex

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# 59Gokkel Feb 2 2012, 09:57 AM
QUOTE(j3st3r @ Feb 2 2012, 04:03 AM) *

The issue I see with buffing SM squads is that most of them are || this close to being op. Tacs that don't bleed, asm with double jump, scouts with immortal sarges, librarian synergy, dread inspire bonus, termies, landraider retreat beacon, etc. All the stuff that very good or lucky SM play brings grown men to rage and shed tears.


Do you play SM?

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# 60^L3gion^ Feb 2 2012, 12:00 PM
fc is redicolously op and apo needs buff tm is in a good place
apo heal is 110 hp/model mek hp buff is like 400hp/100energy for only 100req 20power
ROFL someone needs a calculator for balancing.
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