Dawn of War 2

accordingly:


This post has been edited by HARRYstreams: Feb 20 2012, 15:08 PM

tics are still infantry_fire_resist armor

fixed

Pretty sure they are suppose to be.

The OP said they had been changed to be normal infantry. Guru rebutted the fact with mad file reading skillz. Harry fixed the top post to remove it. You were made look foolish.

WP good sire

Catas are still overbuffed. That is a flaw indeed.

C'mon now riku - they were hardly used before, at least try to adjust to facing them.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted them to be changed too.
The 5 member squad is a good thing, but the damage they dish out now is a lil too much imo.
When playing with Caeltos, catas went to town

their damage wasnt increased muchly (1%?, I think even below). lol

This post has been edited by HARRYstreams: Feb 20 2012, 20:19 PM

It was increased quite a noticeable sum. :|

7x20dmg shotguns = 140

5x30dmg shotguns = 150

so each volley is slightly higher than before. and its just the sarge and demoman gun that wasnt scaled up(not sure if scaleing up them made sense anyway) i thought harry, the normal squad lads shotguns still do increased number.

And now look at their melee dmg. It's insane.

but no charge and no fire on move makes them kind of defensive barring lord general shenanigans

Or inquisitor or CL in T2.

playing vs a lord general with catachans 2 gu sent is pretty hopeless now.
they rape all.
There a must buy now.
People are just gona get carried hard by ig now esp lg
with grenade launchers and medkits with catachans and ogryns
thats unbelievable synergy this game isnt well balanced.

This is actually inaccurate, due to the very bizarre mechanics behind the Catachan squad. In the original (pre-3.19.1) vanilla Cata squad, the squad consisted of one guy with a nade launcher that did 0 ranged DPS, two guys with pistols and machetes that did negligible damage per shot, and four guys with shotguns that did 20 damage per volley.

So closer to pre-3.19.1 figures for Cata damage per volley would be

4x20dmg shotguns = 80 per volley

In 3.19.1, the damage from the four shotgun models got substantially increased, while it was the two guys with the negligible pistols that were removed. Thus the current ranged damage per volley is exactly

4x30dmg shotguns = 120 per volley

Now, your figures are correct for Cata MELEE damage, since every Cata model (including nade launcher guy) does standard Cata melee damage, so Cata melee was only slightly buffed, but Cata ranged damage is now 50% more effective than it was previously.

And, at the same time, Cata pop and upkeep has both reduced dramatically due to the removed models.

I'm not saying Catas are OP, I haven't gotten NEARLY enough playtime in multiplayer since the patch change to be a remotely fair judge, I'm just pointing out that the people saying that Catas' ranged damage is a lot more fearsome than it was previously ARE correct.

What should be done with catachans, if I had my way would be:

1. Give them fire on the move. In this department they're really lacking and it's really frustrating when I use them. They either deal a tonne of damage or no damage at all. Is it too much to ask for a middle ground? Which leads me to my next point....

2. Reduce their ranged damage substantially. Their burst damage is *immense*, if a retreating unit is running past them with anything below half health catachans will nearly deffinatly kill them between a few ranged volleys, some melee as they run past and another volley or two when they're out of melee range. It's quite crazy.

3. Give them melee charge. Sure they've a lot of melee DPs, but without the ability to get into melee they're really relegated to being a very defensive squad (outside ofc, the nade launchers gogogo ability and bionic eye)

4. And again, following on from the last point, decrease their melee damage if appropriate when they get the melee charge to get into combat.

5. Make their initial Sargent a normal model now that can die but also that does damage properly both at range and in melee.atm he suffers from what I like to call, shoota-nob-syndrome. Before, when the squad was too vulnerable to AoE, you didn't notice his die last ability much as AoE virtually by-passed it, and it was quite misleading to see so many models in the squad yet they were so close to dying. Now, where the shoota-nob-syndrome comes in, is the squad has less models, and therefore isn't liable to the to same AoE whoring, the damage share from the front man means they don't loose models much at all til at least half health. Therefore if you make him a normal member of the squad, and kill able, catachans bleed becomes much more predictable but you can also rely much more on killing models as well. So good on both ends really.

Now I am aware that there is a model needed to fire off the nade launcher ability, so id suggest that the model that replaces the Sargent keeps the nade launcher, but also is allowed to fire it normally so IG have a proper counter to buildings and HWT's which they are currently lacking. The nade launcher shouldnt do too much damage, something akin to one nade from the LG's nade launcher volley. Really just enough to harass instead of immediatly force a squad to reposition. That is ofc if they keep the nade launcher ability. If they don't, by all means make the damage higher.


Ideally, what I'd like to see would be a gear swapping mechanic on catachans, which would be free to use, but it would take 15 seconds or so to swap the weapons. You'd have two options.
1. All five models all having shotguns like they ones 4 of them currently have and the good melee DPs.
2. Up to 4 of them would swap their shotguns for nade launchers a-la heretics to counter buildings and setup teams. At the same time the models that have the nade launchers would loose their high melee damage and would only do very very moderate amounts (think along the lines of nade tic level DPs in melee). And also, the 5th model that doesn't have the nade launcher keeps the shottie and high melee DPs. This way they would counter buildings and setups but would be venerable to being melee'd.

I'd propose this as an ability they have when you buy them first. It has no cooldown and the weapons switch takes 15 seconds to prevent being jumped and then instantly changing to a melee load out.

It'd be a nice addition methinks.

This post has been edited by Cursed: Feb 21 2012, 00:18 AM

Thanks for yet Explaining it again Saiser, I got pretty much tired of it

And inq has invis for them, commy has improved inspire courage, etc etc.
There are more things that make catas even more amazing than just gogogo.

Ive seen a catachan squad kill a banshee squad in melee not my shees lol without use of explosive shot
catachans had sergeant def not sure if they had demo man
and the banshee squad had aspect and exarch both squads had practically full hp.They wiped the banshees.
Sounds balanced.