Generals 2

ying this game)What would you like to see ranking wise?

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# 1Phenomena Mar 5 2012, 20:59 PM
This goes about the ladder (assuming there will be one...otherwise many wont even bother buying the game)

Personally, i think a mix of old and new.

A in game rank like that of ra2 or tiberian sun, where you only see the players rank (ladder rank, not level) for the respective game type- ex 2v2 or 1v1

DO NOT have the career wins/losses visible on the game...it just screams "dodge me"

And obviously, have a sc2 type ranking match system where 1v1's are via automatch, aswell as 2v2.

Maybe just have ranked clan games, allow the players to host a room.


This is what I think really hurt cnc3 and generals...Doesnt matter if you or good or not, if somebody sees you have 800 wins and 200 losses, or even 3 wins and 0 losses, they will dodge you.

Maybe only allow these to be viewed via the players profile on the ladder/games website. But not via in game.

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# 2AgmLauncher Mar 6 2012, 01:27 AM
Well if the ladder doesnt let you quit without handing you a loss, then there wont be doding on the ladder. As far as custom games goes, seeing career wins/losses is helpful because then you can kick noobs.

Besides, if they give custom game hosts the ability to filter wins/losses, then they can enforce who can and cant join their games.

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# 3Phenomena Mar 6 2012, 05:15 AM
Yes but this all comes down to the constant noob bashing/dodging that plagues ccg cnc3 etc, because of seeing stats.

It wont take much time for good players to distinguish who are good and who are bad....people remember names quite easy.

Want a custom game? You join one thats made, to see 3 people on the same team, all have stacked stats, your by yourself, and 2 noobs join the room....obviously the host wont kick them, and obviously you wont stay and play.

Sure you can argue that could happen even without seeing career stats, but at least then its a shot in the dark for both sides...

I dunno, i play 95% ranked matches, ever since tib sun, and have seen the progression of dodging get worse and worse as each cnc game is released

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# 4Murder- Mar 6 2012, 11:13 AM
Only noobs dodge based on stats though.

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# 5AgmLauncher Mar 6 2012, 11:52 AM
QUOTE
Want a custom game? You join one thats made, to see 3 people on the same team, all have stacked stats, your by yourself, and 2 noobs join the room....obviously the host wont kick them, and obviously you wont stay and play.


That's why you host your own and set filters to limit who can join your game.

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# 6Phenomena Mar 6 2012, 15:57 PM
so what are your thoughts on ranked games? automatch like ra3/sc2?
or only customs?

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# 7AgmLauncher Mar 6 2012, 18:58 PM
Automatch for sure. As far as I'm concerned that's the only way you can even have a proper ladder. And it has to be like SC2 whereby if you quit, it's a loss. In ZH, you have a 30s grace period where you can quit and the game doesn't count against you. That allows for so much dodging it's retarded. Of course it means if the game is laggy, you get screwed, but they could take steps against that:

1. Force anyone playing online to run at the maximum possible framerate by forcing lower graphics.

2. If the computer can't handle lower graphics and you still lag online, there could be a lag/framerate detector which DOES grant a grace period if someone wants to quit.

3. Or the engine could be designed in such a way that only the lagger sees frame skipping to keep up with other players with better computers.

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# 8Mooff Mar 7 2012, 01:21 AM
Those issues go all hand in hand.

How do you get stats like 800 - 200? You constantly play versus players which are worse than you are. I assume the majority of players does not want that - correct me if i'm wrong.

As far as i am concerned i very much prefer playing someone of equal skill (or someone better) than walking over some bad player.

Unfortunately the cnc games do lack here. Saying the quickmatch doesn't work like it should be. And for team games you are forced to search through the lobbygames, and without proper selection you end up winning lots and lots of them.


So if the quickmatch starts to work the win/loss statistic makes even less sense, cause all you can see then is the number of games played and a 50% win value.

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# 9Phenomena Mar 7 2012, 23:19 PM
My main account on kw is something like 850-300

And i played maybe 50 unranked games...so alot are 1v1 (lots of good players either dodged me or didnt play on my map) but the majority are 2v2 games...where i always had amazing teams and would win 10 games before i lost 1

Doesn't mean i was the best player or anything, but i didnt newb bash (although if a noob joined me game, i wouldnt give up a free win lol)

The problem is the run around that people are doing because the lack of automatch. automatch for 1v1 at leats should be there

2v2 perhaps the same? depending on the amount of players that have the game...sc2 is no problem, but with less traffic its an advantage to host a custom ranked 2v2 and be able to advertise it in the lobby

Agreeing with agm...they have to do something about the disconnecting/freezing...if westwood could figure this out in 1999 and give the correct players the win/loss, theres no excuse why the largest company in the world cant do this in 2012

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# 10methuselah Mar 8 2012, 01:46 AM
They can do it, they have done it, and the decision not to do it was a conscious one even if it makes no sense. Tiberium Wars a dc = a dc. Kane's Wrath a dc = a loss.

For some unknown reason someone at EA thought it would be bright to measure disconnects. They obviously did not think it through.

For me
  1. 1v1 automatch only ladder with really good filters.
  2. Custom matches do not count on the ladder. Yes I am aware that there are some compelling reasons for custom matches counting but IMHO the benefits are not even close to the negatives.
  3. Enough truly balanced maps that yeild some diversity. Please no more one mapping.

Dodging sucks. A 1v1 automatch only ladder where if you quit you lose avoids all dodging at that level. No it does not address custom match dodging which sucks also but I'm not sure what the solution is here beyond some people growing up.

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# 11Phenomena Mar 8 2012, 18:17 PM
custom game dodging could be helped if they just do not show your career stats on your player...like in lobbys. where you hover your mouse over a name and see their rank, wins/losses...just have the persons name


this way, the only way one could dodge you iss if they remember your name. eventually the good players will know who they are, and good players will get games with good players (kick ppl you havent played with etc)

this is the only way i can see dodging take a huge hit



also- get rid of these level ranks...cnc3 went up to 87 if i remember? there are no needs for this...its just another way to have people dodge you.

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# 12Mooff Mar 8 2012, 18:41 PM
QUOTE(Phenomena @ Mar 8 2012, 01:19 AM) *

And i played maybe 50 unranked games...so alot are 1v1 (lots of good players either dodged me or didnt play on my map) but the majority are 2v2 games...where i always had amazing teams and would win 10 games before i lost 1

That's what i meant. I know the problem. In cnc3 stefros, unwritten in myself loved to play 3on3s - they both were ranked top20 at that moment (afair) which made it pretty damn hard to even get a game going.

Now if you search through the 50 or so lobbies you will take every 3on3 you can get after minutes of not finding anything.

But you have no way of selecting decent players, we got booted numerous times by teams which had 100/10 stats and games named "2on2 pro". Meanwhile >90% of all players suck. So your win/loss statistic skyrockets.

Now given a decent team/party quickmatch system which actually does match you based on strength you won't get these statistics. If a matchmaking system does work, it will match you with equally skilled players, hence you will lose half of those games.




QUOTE(Phenomena @ Mar 8 2012, 20:17 PM) *

custom game dodging could be helped if they just do not show your career stats on your player...like in lobbys. where you hover your mouse over a name and see their rank, wins/losses...just have the persons name
this way, the only way one could dodge you iss if they remember your name. eventually the good players will know who they are, and good players will get games with good players (kick ppl you havent played with etc)

this is the only way i can see dodging take a huge hit
also- get rid of these level ranks...cnc3 went up to 87 if i remember? there are no needs for this...its just another way to have people dodge you.


I strongly disagree. Rank, badges, clantags, elo-values and so on need to be visible in the lobby and they need to be prominent. Credit where credit is due.
My main concern isn't dodgeing, it don't want to waste my time with easy wins anyway (better than not getting any games at all though) and showing decent statistics is basecially the only way that good players can find each others. And 2on2 ffgs with 4 good players (even if you never met them before) where loads of fun in ra2. That is something i want back.


And i think once the matchmaking system is great and all custom games are visible from all lobbies most of those problems disapear anyway.

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# 13Phenomena Mar 9 2012, 16:15 PM
Well maybe some of you guys were not around in the early days of cnc...because im basing this off of tiberian sun which i started playing in 2000

There were thousands of people online, yet we had absolutely no problem knowing who the good players are and who are bad, despite not being able to see any of their stats.

You get a feel for a player...hell even look at nick names people use, most top players have cooler names than those who suck (anyone ever notice this?)

Sure at the start itll be a guessing game, but give it a month or 2 and youll get a feel for who is good and who isnt.

Low cost to pay to keep the dodging to a relative low if you ask me...

On ccg or cnc3/kw id constantly wait 15+ minutes for a game because of my stats, its very frustrating.

The only way you should view their stats is via a ladder button on the main screen (see where they rank etc) or on the website you can view all of their stats, wins/losses/by race/streal/game history etc

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# 14AgmLauncher Mar 9 2012, 18:09 PM
But what's the point of playing a custom game if 29 out of 30 people that join will be noobs? Think about it:

A ladder is where the competitive players play. A ladder SHOULD only be done through automatch, not custom games. This means that anyone playing custom games will be noobs by default. And since noobs significantly outnumber good players anyway, It will be rare that a GOOD player will actually join a custom game.

Therefore, the overwhelming majority of your custom games will be noob bashes against people anyway. Or if you play team games, you could get a noob ally and not even know it.

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# 15methuselah Mar 9 2012, 18:44 PM
I understand where you are coming from Phenomena, TS was where I first cut my teeth multiplayer RTS wise but I just don't think you can strip accomplishments out of a game like this. I am 100% with you I would like to see a solution to dodging, I'm not very good but I'm okay and I generally play a lot so my stats look daunting if that sort of thing bothers you so when I hook up with a regular mate looking for some 2v2 it can get very frustrating.

Hopefully Gens 2 will have arranged team quickmatching in it as well.

On a side note most good players don't care about stats. I've had so many top players duck out of matches to avoid the statistical victory it is not even funny so this is only an issue for people looking for easy wins and not competition.

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