Dawn of War 2

List broken matchup

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# 41Phoenixlight Mar 18 2012, 22:20 PM
QUOTE(Wurgl @ Mar 17 2012, 16:26 PM) *

lg > wse

T1 can be a bit tough but from T2 onwards it seems fine, the WSE has a lot of abusable wargear.

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# 42Ice_JT Mar 18 2012, 22:59 PM
Chaos vs IG was broken with the catachan buff, my win rate went from ~95% to 0 against them since the last patch in 1v1.

Call me crazy but I actually feel the game is getting close to balanced outside catachans and that most people are just whining.

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# 43Wurgl Mar 18 2012, 23:27 PM
QUOTE(Ice_JT @ Mar 18 2012, 22:59 PM) *
Chaos vs IG was broken with the catachan buff, my win rate went from ~95% to 0 against them since the last patch in 1v1.

Call me crazy but I actually feel the game is getting close to balanced outside catachans and that most people are just whining.

so chaos vs ig was broken with the patch and when you had 95% winrate it wasnt broken?

k
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# 44Nuclear Arbitor Mar 18 2012, 23:51 PM
it went from broken one direction to broken in another. bC says hi like usual.

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# 45Cyridius Mar 19 2012, 00:36 AM
IG v Chaos is still ridiculously Chaos favoured. IG just has a clutch unit Chaos has some minor difficulties handling now. All 3 heroes have lethal methods of dealing with them, on their person or in their globals. Not to mention Chaos have very cost efficient counters(I.e. NM + Havok counters entire IG t1, Chans or no).
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# 46Ice_JT Mar 19 2012, 00:51 AM
QUOTE(Wurgl @ Mar 18 2012, 23:27 PM) *

so chaos vs ig was broken with the patch and when you had 95% winrate it wasnt broken?

k


What?

Firstly I never said it wasn't broken before, secondly Ig is just one of my comfortable match ups as opposed to say eldar where I have a much lower winrate against equal skilled players.

Basing my winrate against IG is stupid because I'm an outlier.

@bixxie: No, with catachans it has completely changed, I mean chaos had trouble against catachans BEFORE they were first nerfed and had EVEN LESS ranged damage.

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# 47Locklear Mar 19 2012, 07:30 AM
QUOTE(Acra @ Mar 16 2012, 10:00 AM) *

funny that hammer won the wintercup easily vs 2 LA as tm. problem is most sm players are just bad which gives nids (a simpler race) an easy victory. if the sm can pull some combos off or just throw nades then it gets pretty even.


I watched all of those games.

Let's not forget not only did Hammer lose in at least one match but you guys didn't play perfect against him either to say that SM is better or equal to Tyranids in 1v1.
Balancing a matchup around "oh well he got some sick grenades off" isn't really.. the right way to go...

Respectfully, yourself and Wurgl are both players I consider in the league of the best but at the same time it's not fair to say "well all SM are bad."

If SM players are just sooo bad, I'd like to see all the xeno race pr0s switch over and rock the ladder with them vs some Hammer Nids or something fairly difficult to face.

I'll reiterate in saying "oh he got some nades off so it's even now" is not only something that's completely stupid to balance the game around but it's also a mechanic that is sometimes complete chance.. e.g. pathing, lag spikes, failure to time properly that just shouldn't be a "defining moment" for the SM player to win the game.

This post has been edited by Locklear: Mar 19 2012, 07:37 AM
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# 48Soom Mar 19 2012, 10:48 AM
QUOTE(Ice_JT @ Mar 19 2012, 00:51 AM) *

What?

Firstly I never said it wasn't broken before, secondly Ig is just one of my comfortable match ups as opposed to say eldar where I have a much lower winrate against equal skilled players.

Basing my winrate against IG is stupid because I'm an outlier.

@bixxie: No, with catachans it has completely changed, I mean chaos had trouble against catachans BEFORE they were first nerfed and had EVEN LESS ranged damage.

Funny that such a small buff which only effects a late t1 squad can break a matchup which was chaos-favored before.
When you go down from 95% winrate to 0, then this mu was totally unbalanced in your skillarea before. And now you have to deal with a more balanced game, so deal with it.Nonetheless Chaos is still favored, maybe you should try some games against IG as Eldar or Tyranid. Much more difficult and even as Tyranid or Eldar you have pretty good chances to win.

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# 49Naaium Mar 19 2012, 11:41 AM
People, I think all you have misunderstood the motive for this thread....

QUOTE
I can't fathom this bullshit - Tournament

I have always found the so-called broken match-ups the most interesting ones to view thus this one will emphasize alot on that. In order to play this one out we will list what the community feels are the top 10 most broken match-ups and then players will play these.

The idea here will be that player A will be playing the "good commander" and player B will be playing the "bad one". If the player with the favored commander wins then players will switch commanders and the game be played again but this time with the commanders switch. Now in the second game player B has to win within the amount of time that player A won his game, if he does then 1 point will go to him if not, then points goes to his opponent.

If the unfavored commander wins then then next turn the other player has to win within the timeframe set by the other player. First player to reach 3 points wins the match-up.


Anyway, I got a train to catch in 2 hours and then I'm gone, once I get back thou folks I want a list of your top 10 worst possible matchups with

*motives for your selection that goes beyond "QQ I can't win nerf 1010101"
* Some details on how the matchup develops the early metagame and if there is only 1 or several viable openings for the unfavored commander in the matchup you list
* And your thought if it's a highly unfavored matchup or just slightly....

Brainstorm away, cya in a week....

Final note: No, this is not gonna be the first tourny played so have no worries, I'm just using the material gained for when we will play that one...

Cheers
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# 50Rokco Mar 19 2012, 12:15 PM
I worked it out as soon as the tournament thread went up wink.gif

I'm just not sure there many "broken" matchups in the game anymore.
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# 51GuruSkippy Mar 19 2012, 12:36 PM
@naium
then you have knob vs chaos.
I'd say knob vs sorcerer is the worst of the 3 chaos heroes.

as soon as sorcerer has tele armor and flame sword, there is close to nothing a knob can do. sluggas die to melee special, shootas die, lootas die, stormboyz are always a bad idea with knob (and what would they do without UYC/AB anyway).
then you have dark flames to troll orks on retreat even more.
And in T2, fast crusher or dread with mass teleport and/or invisibility is a pain for an ork commander without AV in T2.
or even only plague marines can win a game vs orks..

and this matchup is highly unfavoured for knob (imo), CL and PC are a little bit easier compared to sorcerer. (but still very hard)
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# 52Ragerancher Mar 20 2012, 14:19 PM
I've always felt IG vs chaos to be a bad matchup for IG. The PC heretic heal can essentially nullify any damage IG can do tier 1 without power investment. It seems chaos can get through all of T1 without spending any power on their army whilst IG need to spend 40 on catachans at least.

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# 53ChopperMcChop Mar 20 2012, 15:07 PM
how about shooting the heretics with your double sent and double GM tongue.gif.Or double GM 1 sent.Overall its a silly MU but that isnt a good example really lol.
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# 54Carnevour Mar 20 2012, 16:00 PM
QUOTE(Ragerancher @ Mar 20 2012, 14:19 PM) *

I've always felt IG vs chaos to be a bad matchup for IG. The PC heretic heal can essentially nullify any damage IG can do tier 1 without power investment. It seems chaos can get through all of T1 without spending any power on their army whilst IG need to spend 40 on catachans at least.

i would like to seebhow chaos can go only req build and survive a geb bash and having no map control what so ever. Chaos and Ig mu isnt that chaos favored if you know how to play it right. IG has a insane T1 and a rly good T2 and chaos has the opposite. You can do so much with just a chim and 2 plasma gms that it just amazing. same with chaos if you manage to get 2 pms the ig is pretty much screwed.
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# 55use your chiii Mar 20 2012, 16:27 PM
QUOTE(Wurgl @ Mar 18 2012, 23:27 PM) *

so chaos vs ig was broken with the patch and when you had 95% winrate it wasnt broken?

k

Good catch

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# 56Ragerancher Mar 20 2012, 22:51 PM
QUOTE(ChopperMcChop @ Mar 20 2012, 16:07 PM) *

how about shooting the heretics with your double sent and double GM tongue.gif.Or double GM 1 sent.Overall its a silly MU but that isnt a good example really lol.


Do chaos tend to stick their heretics right at the front or a bit behind their army when worshipping, kind of out of range of your guns? To get to them requires going through Chaos units first.

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# 57texaneous Mar 21 2012, 00:47 AM
QUOTE(GuruSkippy @ Mar 19 2012, 06:36 AM) *

@naium
then you have knob vs chaos.
I'd say knob vs sorcerer is the worst of the 3 chaos heroes.

as soon as sorcerer has tele armor and flame sword, there is close to nothing a knob can do. sluggas die to melee special, shootas die, lootas die, stormboyz are always a bad idea with knob (and what would they do without UYC/AB anyway).
then you have dark flames to troll orks on retreat even more.
And in T2, fast crusher or dread with mass teleport and/or invisibility is a pain for an ork commander without AV in T2.
or even only plague marines can win a game vs orks..

and this matchup is highly unfavoured for knob (imo), CL and PC are a little bit easier compared to sorcerer. (but still very hard)

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# 58Nuclear Arbitor Mar 21 2012, 04:51 AM
when chaos is using worship and you have units that only deal damage to weak units like heretics you ignore the other guys and move forward to fire on the heretics. unless of course they have suppression or NM. then you can't do much.

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# 59ChopperMcChop Mar 21 2012, 12:18 PM
QUOTE(Ragerancher @ Mar 21 2012, 01:51 AM) *

Do chaos tend to stick their heretics right at the front or a bit behind their army when worshipping, kind of out of range of your guns? To get to them requires going through Chaos units first.

As a matter of fact yes some people actually do that(it makes my eyes bleed).And either way its not like your sentinels cant take it,and if there are havocs just flank,if NM's well i dunno.Was just meaning that wasnt a good example that shows Chaos>>>>>>>>>>>IG.
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# 60Cyridius Mar 21 2012, 19:22 PM
A smartly played PC utterly destroys IG in all tiers.
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