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The Counter Strategy Topic for the US Aimstrong strat

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# 1HelpingHans Nov 5 2012, 10:03 AM
Right well lads it appears that in recent times an old strategy has been brought back to deal with PE. It was devised and created my Aimstrong and he himself claims it to be 'bulletproof'. However the time has now come to shatter that belief.

What does this strategy involve?

Early game

3 Engs(flamers) + 4 Rifles
Triage + Stickies

Mid Game to Late Game

Fast Tank Depot with multiple m10's or m18 Hellcats.

Why is this strategy so effective vs PE?

1.Because it is designed to quickly overwhelm your small number of pgs with mass blobbing of flamers and rifles.

2.The early triage negates the ac damage and makes it much harder to kill rifles at full health.

3. It covers all areas. By this I mean you don't have to really change up your build order as US in order to react to a strategy the PE player is doing. For example you may get earlier stickies if you see Infantry Halftracks rather than ACs.

So how do we counter such a strategy?

Well this is why this thread was created. To discuss the ins and outs of this very strategy and try to find weaknesses if there are any and exploit them. I will post my own thoughts on how to counter this soon but I've got to go right now. Cheers Guys.

This post has been edited by HelpingHans: Nov 5 2012, 13:21 PM

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# 2madner Nov 5 2012, 11:04 AM
Possible solution: as there is no armor on the field, there is no need to push for ATHT.
So Defensive OPS +ISS + group zeal and marders to counter TD.

The issue is, can you identify the build and be sure the M8 won't come out while you have only MP44?

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# 3HelpingHans Nov 5 2012, 11:38 AM
QUOTE(madner @ Nov 5 2012, 11:04 AM) *

Possible solution: as there is no armor on the field, there is no need to push for ATHT.
So Defensive OPS +ISS + group zeal and marders to counter TD.

The issue is, can you identify the build and be sure the M8 won't come out while you have only MP44?


Best to check the base with a ketten to make sure what his tech is. Also I would probably get more G43s rather than mp44 as you want to be fighting him at range plus you can suppress those flamers if needed. Defensive Ops I believe is a must because you dont want to be giving him vet. However its alot of fuel so you must be sure to hold and secure a high fuel from the start if you also want acs and marders before he has t4 up.

The american player seems to blob quite a bit so I wonder if we can use this to our advantage by trying to disperse the blob with mines, booby-traps and maybe even goliaths. Goliaths however are not really feasible early game because that's a lot of manpower spent into t1, and then the vamp ht which could be another 2 pgs roughly or another ac.

What doctrine do you think is best suited against this? I've been trying SE for awhile now having success vs Tommy952 in the first round of the Semis however it didn't really do that much. I might try going TD for mines and seeing if that works better.

Keep the ideas coming.

This post has been edited by HelpingHans: Nov 5 2012, 11:42 AM

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# 4S73v0 Nov 5 2012, 12:14 PM
I don't think more PGs at the start are the solution. Those flamers do some nasty crits no matter how many PGs you have. Probably stick to around 3-4 PGs to reduce manpower bleed. I think ACs are the best solution and maybe go luft for more infantry. Then stall for wirblewinds. I'm not sure on the timing and how fast wirbles can come before tank depot.

Another idea is using the luftwaffle squads to build some flaks to help defend your territory.

Another way is going Tank Destroyers straight to hetzers. Maybe plant a teller mine with AT nades and when he runs into it Boom! tongue.gif Hetzers are not bad anti-inf as well and will help you against Tank depot.

I think whoever wins the early game wins the game, it is hard to comeback with aimstrong's strat if US screws up early game. Not sure if US can go motorpool with this strat.

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# 5madner Nov 5 2012, 13:45 PM
Defensive ops == triange
You are investing 50 fuel in building, and 65 in upgrades.

If you stay on 4 pg, he will run you off from the field and the AC won't be able to bring you back.

MP44 I like for killing whole squads, including flamers.

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# 6bopokippo Nov 5 2012, 13:56 PM
IMO t1 start--->T3 is the best for this.


You'll want a decent number of PGs+ISS and maybe 2 G43s total (including the starting one you will put on your first squad). Then, def ops ofc and muni HT to lay mines and to reset G43 suppressive fire.


Then I think it's all about concentrating your force so that isolated PG squads don't get overwhelmed. With ISS+def ops+G43 suppress on engies and maybe ketten push for some luck, I've been able to somewhat defeat the early game comp.

After your last PG, get a muni HT and those mines will NOT be expected and he will not have any minesweepers and in addition he can't exploit a timing window where you won't have G43 suppress.

Then, t3--->Mp44s on all your remaining squads. At this point, depending on your fuel and his fuel, go AC-->Marder or just straight marder if you're confident. Mines+Marders=dead M10 and if you're feeling insecure get AT nades.

As for the doctrine, I feel that TD is useful for the later game TD play

SE is good on industrial or "tight" maps like semois where tank traps can really hurt m10/m18 play. (and hummels!)

Luft is kinda iffy against this


In the end, i think U.S. has just been able to exploit some fundamental flaws in PE design tongue.gif

This post has been edited by bopokippo: Nov 5 2012, 17:15 PM

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# 7madner Nov 5 2012, 14:00 PM
Luftwaffe for mines or Wirbelwinds, but I think it would be to late to make an impact. Hetzer on the other hand means you don't need to invest in AT versus the TD.

And unlike Marders, they actually have an use vs rifles.

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# 8piwawsky Nov 5 2012, 14:14 PM
M10 just laughs at marder (except if he drives onto a mine) and circle strafes it to death...if there isno T4 for ATHT I would say hetzers or panthers but they are late game so I guess that leaves us with hetzers.
What consideres earyl game, I would say if he blobs, you blob...just secure your own fuel(s). G43s on all PGs with off vet, supress flamers and focus fire rifles. Engage from range and use cover. Go TD doctrine, plant some tellers in "obvious" points and get a hetzer or two. Late game call panthers and upgrade PGs with what you can afford (ISS, zeal, vet sergeant, inc. nades,...)

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# 9madner Nov 5 2012, 14:31 PM
Imho upgrade PGs first and foremost. The US player will bring the heat to you, so earlier upgrades = less xp for him, more xp for you.

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# 10HelpingHans Nov 5 2012, 18:37 PM
You guys suggest a lot of things which is dependent on having a number of high munitions points. So I guess one would try and go for munitions before fuel in this case. However having one high fuel is vital in order to deal with the m10s/Hellcats.

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# 11C4nn0nb411 Nov 7 2012, 16:59 PM
How about concentrating only on denying fuel to the US player from the start? Also, since it involves heavy infantry play by the US player early game, I think SE would be the best doctrine to choose; booby traps on all fuels, incendiary mines on crucial cover and booby trapped buildings. Fast AC or PIV should work too imo.

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# 12Jaigen Nov 8 2012, 00:15 AM
To be honest not possible to defeat in the economical sense . unless he fucks up. best bet is g43 spam and ac or p4 rush. thx to am fanboy whining the inf halftrack can no longer supress engineers which is bs. you cannot attack am territory because the am caps faster allowing easy harass on his side. And thx to relics "genius" software skills the HT are not usuable

This post has been edited by Jaigen: Nov 8 2012, 00:18 AM

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# 13jBrereton Nov 8 2012, 03:30 AM
SE incendiary traps into mass Hotchkiss is the obvious prostrat.

That or a genuinely early AC. Because you can pop them out at the 4:10ish mark still nowadays (I did some not incredibly scientific or pr0 testing), and they will stomp enough squaddies to make Americans go all sad.gif

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# 14bercerus Nov 11 2012, 09:51 AM
QUOTE(piwawsky @ Nov 5 2012, 14:14 PM) *

M10 just laughs at marder (except if he drives onto a mine) and circle strafes it to death...if there isno T4 for ATHT I would say hetzers or panthers but they are late game so I guess that leaves us with hetzers.
What consideres earyl game, I would say if he blobs, you blob...just secure your own fuel(s). G43s on all PGs with off vet, supress flamers and focus fire rifles. Engage from range and use cover. Go TD doctrine, plant some tellers in "obvious" points and get a hetzer or two. Late game call panthers and upgrade PGs with what you can afford (ISS, zeal, vet sergeant, inc. nades,...)



jeez man. that sound very hard & strick play with heavy micro intensive, just one small mistake will lead to ruin. while US - select all unit & straight charge.

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# 15C4nn0nb411 Nov 11 2012, 15:50 PM
Hetzer Spam and Fast Panthers seem a valid counter unsure.gif

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# 16bercerus Nov 11 2012, 17:08 PM
QUOTE(C4nn0nb411 @ Nov 11 2012, 15:50 PM) *

Hetzer Spam and Fast Panthers seem a valid counter unsure.gif


US will easily flex his tech after see 2nd hetzer, just spam AT or goes AB.

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# 17Catmandu Nov 12 2012, 03:45 AM
QUOTE(jBrereton @ Nov 7 2012, 21:30 PM) *

SE incendiary traps into mass Hotchkiss is the obvious prostrat.

I actually agree, amis have very little wiggle room for anti PE strats, either a fast M8 then ATG, or BARS to AB to TD. I have been using the Hotch, since PE already has AI counters galore, a win using P4 seems well kinda cheap.. As well as losing to a player who is expecting it, IE; anyone over level 8 with amis. Not to say winning isn't the idea here, just that Hotchkiss wins give me the satisfaction of winning while using a handicap. P4 into hetzer, or even better Panther battle group is like kicking the Ami player in the face while he is on the ground.. Good times! Just google "Kicked in face while on ground", for an average US vs PE match.
(edit) as far as M10, or M18 "laughing at Marder 3" I would suggest that they only laugh, because laughing is better than crying, for 40 fuel vs 50 fuel, PE can field a mobile ATG with extreme range, accuracy, and mobility, not to mention, resistance to small arms, vs any T4 unit amis can field, especially those of comparable fuel costs, Ie; M18, or M10.
(edit #3) yea I aint no Amis fanboy, I play all 3 real faction, brits excluded for obvious reasons, and have 2 levels higher PE stats than Amis.. For above listed reasons.


This post has been edited by Catmandu: Nov 12 2012, 03:56 AM

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# 18JMarsh38 Nov 12 2012, 19:51 PM
Lets see, where have I seen a strategy that involves blobbing short range units and investing in upgrades and healing for them... That sounds almost like piospam! The key to countering piospam was going for his cutoff, forcing him to fight on your terms, then spread out and kite away till you get M8/bars. In that sense, Its kind of a toss up between fast 2 ac's or iss+def ops IMO, both will help counter. You may also need to have a different mentality during engagements, as cover is not as important as distance with that many flamers. Definitely get g43 over mp44, as you will not have the advantage that close up anyways. Also, not sure how effective g43's are on the move at long distance vs riflemen. If anyone can find a comparison on coh-stats or something that would be awesome!

Marders and hetzers probably the way to go late game, 88's may be too vulnerable. I almost always get 2 marders or marder+hetzer, as anything can circle strafe and beat one, but it takes much more to beat 2. Late game shouldn't be much different than typical vs tank depot though, I'm more worried about the early/mid game.

*Just my thoughts, need to play against it more.

This post has been edited by JMarsh38: Nov 12 2012, 23:07 PM

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# 19bopokippo Nov 17 2012, 16:17 PM
Lol Jmarsh.....

The point of the aimstrong strat is the "bulletproof" blob of rifles+flamers going for YOUR cutoff.......

You're thinking of the complete opposite and I can't even see how piospam is remotely related.

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# 20JMarsh38 Nov 18 2012, 07:58 AM
The point I was making was that in combat you need to keep distance vs all the flamers, similar to how you handle piospam, and thus the ideas from countering piospam are related. Pg's are better at range, rifles and flamers are better up close: that is just common knowledge. You need to spread your units and kite to prevent getting rushed at one point. Also, you will be outcapped vs the 3 engineer start typically (like you would be vs piospam), but in my experience, you do have a window for going for their cutoff.

The only real choice I see is either inf upgrades+def ops to fight inf with inf, or fast ac.

Remember, americans are based around attacking, not defending. The only way for them to hold that cutoff would be with another rifle-engie counter-assault. Much better for ami to spread out and cap the map with its seven capping units, wait for the pe to show up, then plan another assault. Also, ketten capping with 3 engineers+rifles running around is a nightmare; you need him to devote all his units to pushing you off of his cutoff to give your ketten breathing room.

This post has been edited by JMarsh38: Nov 18 2012, 08:11 AM

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