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Generals 2

November Patch preview: Command Center First

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# 1-Netput Oct 25 2013, 18:03 PM
EA has brought us a new patch preview, Command center first. A change that is asked for a lot in the community.
What are your thoughts about this change?

Patch Preview #5: Command Center First
In the October Patch to Command & Conquer a shift to your initial starting base will occur. Due to popular demand from our community, when you launch into a game you will now start with both a supply center as well as a Command Center.

With the inclusion of the Command Center as a starting structure, there are some gameplay changes that will take place to accommodate the new base layout.


What's New:
When loading into the game you will begin with your faction’s Command Center, your faction's supply center and the appropriate number of harvesters and workers for your faction.

IPB Image

The Command Center will provide a large amount of vision surrounding it, to give your initial base plenty of awareness of your immediate surroundings. Additionally, the Command Center prevents the casting of aggressive player powers within a predetermined radius which is displayed on your minimap (This is referred to as Baffling). Lastly, the Command Center gives access to your faction’s scouting player power. Be aware thought that the Command Center cannot prevent the casting of scouting powers, so both you and your enemy can scout your base if desired.

While the Command Center does provide vision and baffling at the start please be aware that when you start building structures, they will appear on your enemy’s minimap even if they have no nearby units to scout.

If you wish to keep your base safe from prying eyes, the Command Center can research an upgrade called Secure Communications. Once researched, all structures made from that point forward will not be shown to the enemy unless they can directly see them. If you want to be aggressive, the Command Center also has an upgrade called Command Efficiency. Once researched, the build times of all units will drop drastically. Both of these upgrades are available immediately on the Command Center for you to research if you so choose.

Late game, the Command Center will allow for users to build their faction’s Commando as well as research an upgrade called Pierce Baffle to allow for aggressive player powers to be cast within the radius of a Command Center.


Conclusion:
With the inclusion of the Command Center as a starting part of your base we hope to allow player more flexibility in their strategies and options in how they play. We look forward to hear your feedback on this new feature.
Source: Official Website


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# 2Nostredeus Oct 25 2013, 19:12 PM
So that basically fixes every concern, surrounding the mentioned mechanics, that I can think of.

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# 3smiggy Oct 25 2013, 19:40 PM
could be good but depends on how much the cc upgrades cost and what way will they cc bonus perks will work or are they changing them, and also seems like an early game buff for apa as cc is part of their tech path and its free.........looks like the same starting resources are the same so easy to go depot 1st making games more macro oriented....

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# 4cnc315d34d Oct 25 2013, 19:57 PM
interesting, but wonder how this affects tech tree now

would WF and rax need PP to build? if rax doesnt need PP but WF does, i guess you could start with fast rax or PP->WF

also yes APA gets an advantage... the whole idea that APA is the only faction that uses CC for teching is retarded

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# 5AgmLauncher Oct 25 2013, 19:58 PM
There's one problem I have with this personally, and that you start with supply center AND command center. The whole point of starting with command center first is that you can choose WHERE to build your first supply.

That said, the CC is worth $1000 and you get 2/3rds of it for selling it, so you now have an option to sacrifice your initial player power and infuse yourself with $667 to put towards an oil derrick or an expansion.

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# 6-Netput Oct 25 2013, 20:17 PM
what is the idea behind starting with a CC and a supply depot any way? The lead developer/decision maker must have had his reasons for it?


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# 7cnc315d34d Oct 25 2013, 20:30 PM
selling CC for a measly $667 would seem stupid considering it gives soooo many benefits...
- support powers
- anti-fog hack upgrade
- baffle
- unit build speed upgrade
- power?
- scout drones?
- building dozers for APA/EU?
- teching for APA?


im interested in the last two in particular...
APA teching should be independent of CC imo
and are dozers still buildable from supply centre?

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# 8-Netput Oct 25 2013, 20:59 PM
i dunno. I wouldn't mind an extra fast oil derrick. Remember a oil derrick gives you 300 per minute. So in 3 minutes you already earned your CC back and from there you are making extra money.

The extra's are all upgrades now, which are easier to afford with the extra cash. So I wouldn't be so sure to turn down the CC sell strategy smile.gif


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# 9mcpilz Oct 25 2013, 21:07 PM
I dont like this idea, first of all i think they misunderstood the community. I guess we wanted anti scout CC so our buildings wont appear on the map.

Now with the CC from the beginning theres another free Scan available so scouting is even more "useless" (i know its not useless, to keep naggers shut wink.gif )...

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# 10Mant@tza Oct 25 2013, 21:21 PM
From what i see on the picture there is no more dozer in the cc and it also gives no power.
So it means as APA you cant just skip your powerplant anymore but if they dont chjange the tech you could instantly go gatling tank with apa.
Still dont get why we have cc and depot at the same time and why foghack is still enabled.

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# 11GaldorPunk Oct 25 2013, 21:24 PM
That seems like an improvement, assuming that the upgrade to hide buildings from the opponent is relatively fast and cheap. Personally, I still think it’s probably a sign of a design failing if the initial map hack and starting with the supply center are necessary to scout and counter all-in rushes, since they weren’t necessary in the original Generals.

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# 12Mooff Oct 25 2013, 22:04 PM
QUOTE(AgmLauncher @ Oct 25 2013, 21:58 PM) *

The whole point of starting with command center first is that you can choose WHERE to build your first supply.


I would say another point is to slow down warfac (airfield) based rushes and provide a natural scouting phase. The time it takes to build PP+Depot+Warfac ideally should give one enough time to see what is going on and base/ adjust the own buildorder on that.

If the very first building to build is a warfac that time window is very small, even if we get fast scouts out of the cc.

QUOTE(-Netput @ Oct 25 2013, 22:17 PM) *

what is the idea behind starting with a CC and a supply depot any way? The lead developer/decision maker must have had his reasons for it?


I'm curious about that as well. As for guessing i would say they want to ease current casual players into a different tech tree and are doing that via steps, instead of dropping a bomb on them by going for drastic changes in the tech tree.

This post has been edited by Mooff: Oct 25 2013, 22:10 PM

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# 13bike_rush_ownz Oct 25 2013, 22:24 PM
smile.gif


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# 14Mant@tza Oct 25 2013, 22:30 PM
QUOTE(Mooff @ Oct 25 2013, 22:04 PM) *

I would say another point is to slow down warfac (airfield) based rushes and provide a natural scouting phase. The time it takes to build PP+Depot+Warfac ideally should give one enough time to see what is going on and base/ adjust the own buildorder on that.



this! nothing more to say scouting would be way easier with cc start only.

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# 15AgmLauncher Oct 25 2013, 23:23 PM
QUOTE(-Netput @ Oct 25 2013, 16:17 PM) *

what is the idea behind starting with a CC and a supply depot any way? The lead developer/decision maker must have had his reasons for it?


Lead designer is afraid of players spending all of their starting cash and having nothing left over to build a supply depot.


QUOTE(cnc315d34d @ Oct 25 2013, 16:30 PM) *

selling CC for a measly $667 would seem stupid considering it gives soooo many benefits...
- support powers
- anti-fog hack upgrade
- baffle
- unit build speed upgrade
- power?
- scout drones?
- building dozers for APA/EU?
- teching for APA?


- The only decent early support power that you'd give up is GPS Scrambler. But I'd say that's definitely worth sacrificing for a fast second supply though.
- Anti-fog hack upgrade is $1000, which in no way shape or form justifies the information denial. $1000 investment early on = might as well hand the game to your opponent.
- Baffle only matters if you're letting your opponent into your base early on
- Unit build speed upgrade doesn't matter if you're stuck on one supply. Your income rate is the bottleneck, not the build speeds of things. And again, that's $1000 upgrade, which means you have even less money left over to build units with your new faster build speed.

QUOTE
and are dozers still buildable from supply centre?

No, they're built from supply center only.

QUOTE(Mooff @ Oct 25 2013, 18:04 PM) *

I would say another point is to slow down warfac (airfield) based rushes and provide a natural scouting phase. The time it takes to build PP+Depot+Warfac ideally should give one enough time to see what is going on and base/ adjust the own buildorder on that.

Yes, excellent point.

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# 16-Netput Oct 25 2013, 23:33 PM
QUOTE(AgmLauncher @ Oct 26 2013, 01:23 AM) *

Lead designer is afraid of players spending all of their starting cash and having nothing left over to build a supply depot.

lol... That is something that happens to you only once. Even if a all in rush is too strong, other things can be changed. (cost of wf / defense turrets / unit speed / etc, etc)

Weird decision from him though. It is an alpha ffs. Why doesn't he experiment?

Is the lead designer active on the forums btw? If so, want to share his nickname?


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# 17Mooff Oct 25 2013, 23:59 PM
QUOTE(AgmLauncher @ Oct 26 2013, 01:23 AM) *

Lead designer is afraid of players spending all of their starting cash and having nothing left over to build a supply depot.


Is there internal testing information to confirm that this is
a) a problem which does arise for players who never played an rts before
b) frustrating enough that they do not want to play a second match


It is kinda hard to grasph that this might be an issue. Maybe if too many buildings can be build right at the start. But given the only building choices you have are pwr or pwr and rax and then supply depot (cnc tech tree that is), that reasoning does surprise me.

And even if it is, you could always make an obligatory ingame tutorial for the first x games, where you get speech bubbles telling you what to build and select + flashing buildicons.


Thx for the infos.

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# 18Spectre Oct 26 2013, 07:29 AM
.....

This post has been edited by Spectre: Oct 26 2013, 07:35 AM

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# 19Technique Oct 26 2013, 08:48 AM
QUOTE(AgmLauncher @ Oct 25 2013, 21:58 PM) *

There's one problem I have with this personally, and that you start with supply center AND command center. The whole point of starting with command center first is that you can choose WHERE to build your first supply.

Lol?

Choose where you build your supply?

In this boring gated economy you have no choice where to place your depot...
Unless you mean driving your slow dozer to a expansion outside of your ccs baffle area to place your first supply depot... which would make no sense to do.



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# 20-Netput Oct 26 2013, 09:12 AM
You could choose to build oil derricks first and go for a high pressure early game. The build times for supply depots are huge, so it would make sense to me


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