Kanes Wrath

firstly, id like to say i havent played this game seriously in quite a while (tired and bored of broken balance and bugs)....
but occasionally boot up my kw to watch replays and such

some time ago i was thinking and realised that despite the time we've spent with 1.02... from playing various kinds of matches and watching reps....
i had a chat with voddy quite recently and heard the same from him

theres not ONE game i can remember, in kw1.02, that id classify as 'epic' or REALLY memorable.

i can remember 'epic' games from tw1.04 (<33 gmerc, his games were what got me hooked on cnc3)
i can remember 'epic' games from 1.04-1.08 (voddys nod etc)

hell, i can even fucking remember 'epic' games from crappy 1.09... despite that patch being my LEAST favourite patch in the entire history of c&c (srsly, i wouldnt bother trying to create a balance mod or w/e if i didnt hate it this much).

kw1.02 is however my favourite patch.... i love the amount of overall variety it offers, with somewhat greater emphasis (generally) on using real tactics and smart outplaying as opposed to ecoboom or 1unit spam which dominated previous patches.


but recently i dusted off my 1.09 (btw no-dvd version ftw lulz)
just to watch this much touted 'aoenian vs greasy' game

it was what youd expect in any typical 1.09 gdi mirror - mindlessly spamming preds/rockets
but tbh it had this feeling of epicness and a fuckload of back n forth action, and not at all one-sided.

why has kw lost this feel?
please please watch this replay... and help me understand.
(if youre a current top kw player too - its worth a watch)

btw if anyone has any decent 1.02 reps which they thought were 'epic', feel free to post them here.

This post has been edited by cnc315d34d: Nov 21 2009, 05:48 AM

There was a Voddy versus Modii match on TRift somewhat recently that was really quite good, MoK vs GDI IIRC. No epic units, just a lot of back-and-forth shooting. I thought it was one of the best games I'd watched in awhile.

yea ive watched that one...was alright imo, but found it a tad one sided (favourered modii)

anyways theres a vod of the 1.09 game i was referring to

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it again. cgf has finally some to his senses!

Of course he has some sense since he stole my opinion.

Well thats what I meant.... of course.

This post has been edited by I.AM.OP: Nov 21 2009, 12:27 PM

epic games are like games themselves....they are all about each individuals opinion. I've been very lucky and have been able to watch some really awesome matches up close and personal that certainly felt epic to me as they were happening.

you know that I am a fan of yours Crazy but what I don't get here is your point. I understand the contention and I disagree with it but is there some logic behind what you say? In other words is there some closet reason why you think no epic games are being produced?

He wants us all to play CNC4, that's pretty much it.

what r u talking about


epic units must equate to epic games.

Come on people.

Ever since the eco-nerf in 1.01 there hasn't been any "epic games". KW isn't like TW, where you can make mistakes but still come out on top. No: if you lose an engi going for a spike capture, or a harvester, you're screwed. that's it. there's no coming back

there's also a lack of spammable, high hp units. in tw, its just preds and rockets. in kw, its an entirely different playstyle w/ pitbulls, rockets, orcas, firehawks, marvs, and juggernauts

This post has been edited by MLG Pro: Nov 21 2009, 16:37 PM

Since eco nerf and balance issues the main ways to win is spam or use cheap lame tactics... Now without eco nerf at least the spams were epic in proportion and the non spam tactics were often much more memorable. Things like 1 click support powers did huge damage compared to now but with larger eco you could rebuild and it added to the fun.

Im gonna have to agree somewhat, TW i had some really awesome games, that were epic, but, i've also had many epic games in KW. They are both different games, therefore i think, there are different feels to epicness in both games. I recently started up TW again over KW, and got bored of it after 10 games. No variety what so ever, and the game is over flowing with dodgers, more so than KW.

I'll have to disagree on that. KW still has potential for epic stuff. In fact, it has even more potential to TW, because - let's put it bluntly here - most TW games are pure tank spam, which is - brace for a shock - boring. KW has much more potential, however what kills it is lack of the really good players (not denying the existence of good ones here), caused mostly by pretty fail early support.

I´m totally with Perfi´s on this topic.

TW is tankspam with support
and KW is everything in less numbers (smaller eco)

KW promotes Micro more than TW.
Often its not funny to see how Scrin Hexa+Mastermind/Prodigy or other lame taktics like flamereckonner or Gunwalker+Cultists lame the better one of the two players down...

But if there´s no Bugusing or laming KW Replays are by far more entertaining!

Broken games have broken matches. Seems simple to me. I can probably count the amount of moves within a KW game in vids or however I've seen them where I raised my eye brow or muttered "wow" from a player move. It can't be more then 3 times and this game tried to be an e-sport.

I suggest the communities stop pushing for 1.03 and start pushing for SDK. It's the only way you'll be able to get what you want. Otherwise your only real RTS options in the foreseeable future is C&C 4 or Starcraft 2.

i agree tw should have 1 more patch just to fix some balance and bug issues, that is all. And i would also liek to see kw1.03 but non of these pactehs are coming...

I had enuff epic games in training for ls3 tbh...

And i think i had some nice games in ls3 itself aswell with superweapon vs ukraine and sell mcv + remake mcv vs voddy on deci. And then you had some epic games of dackel versus xeon... + in ls2 there where some epic games aswell.

Imo the problem is just the quality/attitude of players in kw most high ranked players wont play vs good/known players keeping all the good players out... im sure more good players would still play some here and there if it wasnt for this all around dodgers attitude on kw.

Tho a patch would make things fresh again on kw which is really needed just look at how bad the kw ladder is doing compared to tw/ra3 ladder... which sucks cause kw is my favorite game and imo the game that takes most skill of the 3.

This post has been edited by Technique: Nov 22 2009, 11:24 AM

Uhm, lol, dude, you call that epic? I don't want to be cocky, but honestly, I played like shit. I was lazy and unserious.

Also, GDI vs MoK on rift is one of the most imba matchups in all of KW. Even more imba than GDI vs vNod on rift.

This post has been edited by vOddy: Nov 22 2009, 16:09 PM

It was epic to watch you guys battling it out w/out abusing the imba crap in this game like T4, epics, whatever. Regardless of how well you played, if it keeps me entertained throughout the game with both players showing a lot of skill, then I'm happy.

We all know that you're much better on any given day.

On an unrelated note, I apparently suck because I hate playing versus Nod on Rift as GDI. But we knew that already.