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R2G1 WOHIEisenvolk vs aramonkg (OMFG)

#1aramonkg  Sep 12 2009, 20:51 PM -
Replays: 25 Game:
Tournament XII R1G1
#2Blechdose  Sep 12 2009, 21:39 PM -
Replays: 6 Game:
Funny game!

Hmmm, not sure going straight to T4 is the wisest thing to do for Wehr, without having any auxiliary AT like Grens or Pak against cheap M10s. Maybe at least put up a med bunker since it could give some Grens. Knights Cross are also not that great without at least vet2, imho. Anyway, gg.
#3Eisenvolk  Sep 12 2009, 22:40 PM -
Replays: 29 Game:
crazy lovely
#4Marph  Sep 12 2009, 23:29 PM -
Replays: 8 Game:
what an intensiv game, long time not see
u both got my wub
#5TommyGunz22  Sep 13 2009, 13:58 PM -
Replays: 19
One of the most frustrating games I've ever watched on GR. The Wher player, who I'm sure is a top player, had some of the worst tank micro I've ever seen in a replay.

Early game was very solid, Got to t4 at the 8 minute mark which was remarkable. Had an ostwind out at the 11 minute mark against an m8........ That's when everything went downhill in this game... should have lasted 20 minutes at most. Multiple times Rifles ran at volks with the Ostwind sitting just out of range not moving or firing, just sitting there. What was the purpose of going straight T4 for shock tactics, then play a defensive game as if was T2. That's how the entire game went. Was very frustrating watching the wher player waste countless inf vs inf squads while the tanks sat back just out of range... and throughout the game their was hardly any anti tank weapons. By the time the Wher player actually did attack, the element of surprise passed and there were 3 At guns. Thats when the wher player decides to attack, roughly after sitting on a panther, panzer4 and ostwind for about 10 minutes barely even probing. Then finally attacks after letting the Amer player build up all those at guns and promply loses all three tanks while the infantry support stayed in the base....including knights cross holders.

There was nothing else besides those at guns. With Terror, could have simply sent the infantry forward, sent any guarding inf back with propaganda, wiped out the at guns and sent the tanks in. Game over at the 25 minute mark instead of of 50 minutes later. Then allowing the calliopes to just sit back and fire all game without sending out one of the panthers, panzer 4's etc to get them. Continually building ostwinds sitting on over 400 fuel when it was clear that the Wher player already had overwhelming tank vs Tank power, and would have been much better off using knights cross to simply wipe out the At guns, instead of sending a ostwind at the at gun's. The wher player didn't need anti infantry. If anything with all that fuel would have been better off with at least with a Panzer 4 instead of continuing to build ostwinds for both anti-inf and anti tank (since near the end a few m10s showed up).

I think there were about 5-6 ostwinds killed, 3 panthers, and 2-3 panzer 4s (and there was no reason for it)... And all that was stopping the force was usually just 2 at guns and/or one M10..with very very late persh(Amer player went right side Armor first). At one point, I counted a panther a p4 an ost and a KING TIGER, and watching the Vp count the wher player was just sitting on the VP point with only 30 VP left... and all that was facing him was TWO at guns ....

Then there numerous instances when prop war was used against something like a single flame engie squad coming up against the KT, ost, panther and panzer4s, or 160 firestorm was dropped on mobile troops that simply moved out of the way, while those munis could have been used for mp40s, mines, or backteching to T2 for a SINGLE STUKA. At the end of the game prop war was used about 3 times, while having a V1 unlocked. I have never seen one player have such and overwhelming advantage and just camp. Hard to watch this replay. Then constantly buying numerous pios to repair tanks just close enough to the frontlines to be seen and callioped to death time and time again, one time with the sniper right beside the pios and getting killed in the storm. When you have a KT, A panther, a P4, an ostwind, vet two volks and knights cross holders vs. 2 at guns 2 Calliopes and 3 rifle squads, that engagement should last 2 minutes at most.

That first ostwind should have ended the game a few minutes in. This isn't from a level 7 player (i don't think) that's why it was so frustrating to watch, especially when it hit the hour mark (had it on tx's 8 speed)

And the WORST part, is that this wasn't on some large map with numerous tank ambush points spread out like Lowlands.....this was on LANGRES.
This post has been edited by TommyGunz22: Sep 13 2009, 14:26 PM
#6steektits  Sep 13 2009, 17:45 PM -
Replays: 45 Game:
Awards:
Wubbed and casted smile.gif See tip for the link.
This post has been edited by steektits: Sep 13 2009, 19:57 PM
#7steektits  Sep 13 2009, 19:57 PM -
#8BiggunsRevenge  Sep 14 2009, 04:04 AM -
Replays: 0
..
This post has been edited by BiggunsRevenge: Sep 14 2009, 04:11 AM
#9TommyGunz22  Sep 14 2009, 04:12 AM -
Replays: 19
Great Shoutcast. One of the most teeth gnashing replays I've ever watched. If it wasn't a tournament game I'd just think it was two level 7's playing each other, big deal. I found myself literally yelling at the screen "MOVE THE OSTWIND UP!!!" Probably just not one of your better games... and on edit i just read on your tips reply that you were afraid of mines and being cautious. Sorry for the rant, ....but in the future, even if you lose it, if you shock the Amer player with an ostwind you have to clean up quick and catch the at gun on its way out of the motor pool and take 2/3's of the riflemen out on the way. If not, all you basically lost was 40 fuel and the equivalent of 1 ranger squad. The hardest part was the quick tech. & backteching is always a good option with an entrenched player on a small map. A pak and a stuka would have pretty much made it impossible for the amer player to counterattack with your heavy tank advantage and would have ended the match close to about 45-50 minutes early.

Like the shoutcaster said, it wasn't really much you could say to the Amer player besides always getting bars first. When i'm Amer and get caught with an unexpected ostwind (and the AMer player went Armor = no rangers or airborn) then it's really not much you can do besides run the engies back mine base, get stickes and try to get two at guns out. But in the span of all that, you as the wher player should take complete map control because the US player will have had to basically immediately retreat all forces in the field. Sorry if I was too abrasive with my earlier critique.
This post has been edited by TommyGunz22: Sep 14 2009, 04:57 AM
#10aramonkg  Sep 14 2009, 18:51 PM -
Replays: 25 Game:
Hmm, well, as I said in the SC thread, I don't think not being overly aggressive with the Ostwind was a big mistake. What would you say if I had lost it? OMG, what a noob, he lost his Ostwind. A second one, well given that had I lost the first one, would mean no counter to a next M8 (he was armor, he would get is quick), more map control for US, more mines, better positions on the field for my opponent.

As for the KCH, I wanted a squad that would quickly deal with suppressed infantry in the West, should US attack my MG42 there, something that didn't happen but how would I know?

What I consider my biggest mistakes was that I had terrible micro with my first sniper, something that discouraged me from making any more till late in the game, that I did not back tech for indirect fire supports (mortars or nebels or stukas) units against the multiple ATGs and that I messed up some of my tank attacks. During which, I wasn't lacking infantry support btw, it just that one of the ATGs was in the US base, 2 more at the outskirts (FoF reaching the middle VP), and the rest of the US infantry there, nearby a medic tent. After that tank flank failed, sticky bombs helping to achieve that to great effect, I became even more cautious...

And I am not level 7 -.- Level 7s don't get T4 up by the 11 minute against level 14 opponents smile.gif
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