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BFME2 Hero Countering Guide

By Se˝orEcthelion - 22nd July 2022 - 23:44 PM

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Do pesky heroes get you down? Do you have trouble killing them while they wreak havoc on your forces? If so, this guide will provide some general solutions. The first step to defeating a hero is to understand their weaknesses, which ultimately comes down to their armor types.

This guide has the most up to date values of 1.09 v2.00. However, all the differences with 1.06 patch and previous BT2DC patches will be noted here.

Keep in mind that armor is not the only factor that is in play when fighting a hero; their health, abilities, speed, not to mention any supporting units or powers. In addition, many units have weapons bonuses or penalties, like the Witch-king causing only 10% damage against Eowyn, or object filteres, like Nazguls being immune to poison.

Flying-heroes will be covered in a different guide, to point out their armor/health/scalars particularities.

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Hero Armors of BFME2

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(f) = foot
(m) = mounted
Pierce = Arrow damage from normal archers.
Cavalry_Ranged = Arrow damage from Rohirrims, SpiderRiders, BattleWagon MenOfDales, and VolleyArrow.
Hero_Ranged = Arrow damage from heroes with bows.
Slash = Sword damage of swordmen and soldiers.
Uruk = Sword damage from Uruk-Hai Warriors and Orc Warriors.
Specialist = Pikeman damage.
Cavalry = Damage from cavalry melee, not tramples.

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1. Normal Hero Armor

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Boromir, Theoden (f), Eowyn (f),
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Gandalf (f), Gloin, Glorfindel (f),
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Lurtz, Nazgul (f) and Gorkil (f)

Damage taken from:

Hero_Ranged: 50%
Hero: 50%
Structural 50%
Slash: 40%
Poison: 40%
Uruk: 35% (Was 25% before BT2DC 2.2)
Cavalry: 30%
Flame: 25%
Magic: 20%
Pierce: 18%
Cavalry_Ranged: 18%
Specialist: 15%

Variations of Normal Hero Armor.
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Glorfindel (f)

Since Patch 1.08, the so-hated heroe that literaly applies Siege damage against structures, turns invulnerable, heals, mounts, and wind riders back home suffered a series of armor nerfes consisting on:
Slash: 45% instead of 40%.
Specialist: 25% instead of 15%.
Hero: 60% instead of 50.

Main Counters:

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This are the classic 1k heroes that you are supposed to counter by swords or with your own heroes. A good player trick to deal with these heroes is clump the swords around them, rally call them and murder the hero. However, you will have to wait they finished using their defensive spells (such as Gloin Slam or Gandalf Wizard blast) or you will be blasted. Also, you can only catch them if they are completely exposed. If there are enemy battalions around these heroes, you just cannot kill them via swords until you killed the enemy infantry first. They also take high damage from ranged heroes, but that is not very useful.
Keep in mind this is the strongest armor against pikemen... so pretend to kill a Gloin with a Easterling Pike is just a waste of time, plus you are feeding the hero that is going to torment you after he levels up and Shake-Foundation your level 3 Slaughter-House.

Situational example: Early game Mordor against Gloin:
If you don't know how to deal with a early Gloin near your Mordor base when you have no corsairs is: Make archers and warriors, kill his dwarven escorts with the archers, expose Gloin, clump the orc warriors around him and just keep hitting him. If Gloin fights your orcs, good; you are making time for your own reinforces. If Gloin ignore your orcs and attacks your base buildings, good; you will have his back exposed to cause flanking damage with your warriors. If Gloin tries to escape, horde bonus orcs can outrun him, causing flanking damage again, which basically means double damage. If a Nazgul can join the battle, better. Archers are also not effective against Gloin due his dwarven dodge rate. (See Dodge Rates info later on this post)

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2. Light Hero Armor

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Eomer (f), Faramir (f), Arwen (f),
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Legolas, Wormtongue and Mouth of Sauron (f)

Damage taken from:

Hero: 75%
Magic: 63% (Was 70% before BT2DC 2.3)
Cavalry: 60%
Hero_Ranged: 50%
Structural: 50%
Pierce: 30%
Cavalry_Ranged: 30%
Slash & Uruk: 25%
Poison: 25%
Specialist: 10%
Flame: 10%

Main Counters:

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Heroes, Magic and Cavalry

This is basically an archer type of armor, a low weight type of armor. These characteristics make it excellent at melee combat with armies, but it is the most exposed armor against Arrows and Heroes. So, if you see a Gimli about to touch your Legolas, start running. If you see two farsighted-rally called Mirkwood Archer hordes aiming at your Faramir, start running.
Their magic weakness imply they are extremely sensitive to either Silver Thorn arrows, or spells Evil Eye, Istari Light, Sunflare, Dead Eye, Bombadil, etcetera. Though over the years, 1.09 has been progressively adding damage penalties to avoid 1.06 phenomena such as Evil Eye one-shooting Legolas.
This are the kind of heroes you want to clump your buffed cavalry when they are not targeting you, and when they are alone far from home. For example, two howled Warg Riders or one Rohirrim with Rallying Call can murder Legolas in few seconds if there are no other heroes or pikes nearby.

Possible changes for patch 1.09 v3.00:

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Eowyn (f)

She might join the club of this armor. Which means she will be able to fight against infantry without dying. But she's gonna have to run when a enemy hero arrives. Her battle roles will then be similar to Mouth of Sauron.

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3. Tough Hero Armor

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Aragorn, Gimli, Elrond, Saruman,
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Haldir, Witch King (f) and Shelob

Damage taken from:

Poison: 75%
Hero: 65%
Specialist: 42%
Structural: 40%
Hero_Ranged: 25%
Slash & Uruk: 25%
Cavalry: 25%
Cavalry_Ranged: 20%
Flame & Magic: 17%
Pierce: 15%
Since 1.09 v3.00
-They might end up taking more cavalry damage. We will see.

Variations of Tough Hero Armor.
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Pierce: 10% instead of 15%.
Hero: 55% instead of 65%.
Specialist: 50% instead of 42%.
Cavalry: 37% instead of 25%.

-The arrow improvement was added in BT2DC 2.0 considering Shelob is a easy target for archers, given her 0% dodge rate. (See Dodge Rates explanation)
-The improvement against heroes was added in the patch 1.09 v1.00 as a quick solution to the fact Shelob wasn't able to win 1vs1's against certain weaker and cheaper heroes, like Dain.
-The last two nerfes against Pikes and cavalry were added during the development of 1.09 v2.00, conforming a series of necessary nerfs after Shelob build time, mobility and abilities were improved in previous patches. So, since 1.09 v2.00 it's possible to say that Cavalry is a valid counter against Shelob. But be careful, she is still an anti-cavalry unit capable of destroying your ponies via damage in area.

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Aragorn, Elrond, Gimli.

Pierce: 17% instead of 15%:

-This change was made for patch 1.08. May not be significant but it was meant to help evil faction archers being totally useless vs these heroes. (Pretty much still are, especially for Gimli due his dodge rate)

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Witch King (f)

Cavalry: 29% instead of 25%.
Specialist: 50% instead of 42%.
Flame: 22% instead of 17%.
Hero: 57% instead of 65%.

-The cavalry resistance nerf was added for patch 1.09 v1 to slightly reward the use of horde units against this cavalry destroyer hero.
-All the other changes were made during 1.09 v2 development via the re-design idea of make Witch King weaker against armies, but stronger against enemy spam of heroes.

Main Counters:

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Tough Hero Armor is known by the community as the classic "3k hero armor". All you need to counter this kind of armor is a few pikemen battalions and you are ready to go. Sometimes you don't even need to isolate the hero to kill him with pikes, since pikeman damage is a lot more harmful. I have seen Gimli dying before his Guardians when fighting a large Isengard Pikeman upgraded army with Lurtz leadership.
Heroes are also effective against these heroes, but you need to be careful of your hero. You don't want Gimli hitting your Lurtz directly. A good tip is to never ever battle another hero in aggressive stance. Remember, always be in defensive stance when fighting heroes against heroes.
Poison may be good, but you will need a fair amount of Goblin Warriors to defeat any hero, even when alone. However, poison also includes Stingers or Backstabs, which means you will want to stab Gimli, instead of Dain or Gloin. Witch King in particular is immune to poison, so expend goblins trying to kill Witch King is a unnecessary feeding. Just get more upgraded Half Troll and get your Goblin King/Shelob/Drogoth to join the battle.

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4. Mounted Hero Armor

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Eomer (m), Eowyn (m), Faramir (m), Arwen (m)
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, Glorfindel (m), Nazgul (m) and Gorkil (m)

Damage taken from:

Specialist: 100%
Structural: 100%
Hero: 50%
Magic: 50%
Poison: 50%
Flame: 40%
Hero Ranged: 30%
Cavalry: 25%
Slash: 25%
Cavalry Ranged: 20%
Pierce: 15%

Main Counters:

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Pikemen, Fire & Magic

Heroes with Mounted Armor will die extremely fast to pikes, and most cannot survive running straight through a battalion. They are also weak to structural arrows, so be careful when sending your mounted Arwen to kill a fortress farm. This armor is also the only hero armor that is countered by Fire and Magic. It's typical to see Sunflare or Fire breaths one-hitting mounted heroes, even the ones with many health points, like Eomer. It's also a classic to seee Evil-Eye taking like 70% health bars from targets like mounted Blackriders or Arwens, but the same heroes being almost immune to the same spell when dismounted.
Hero armors on BFME2 may be weird, but that's what we have inherit from 1.06.

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5. Resilient Hero Armor

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Dain (f), Thranduil (f), Gandalf (m), Mouth of Sauron (m),
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Sharku, Dain (m), Thranduil (m)

Origen of this armor
This armor was created during BT2DC to improve 1.06 heroes like Dain (f) and Thranduil (f) having a Mounted Hero Armor.
It was also created to weaken mounted heroes like Gandalf (m), and Mouth of Sauron (m), which were using the Tough Hero Armor.
Since 1.09v1 Sharku also started to use this armor, from having a Normal Hero Armor.
Since 1.09v2 Thranduil mounted on elk and Dain mounted on pig and also started to use this armor, instead of the usual Mounted Hero Armor

Damage taken from:

Poison: 60%
Hero: 60%
Specialist: 55%
Structural: 50%
Hero_Ranged: 33%
Uruk: 33%
Cavalry: 28% (Was 25% before 1.09v1)
Slash: 25%
Cavalry_Ranged: 20%
Flame: 20%
Pierce: 17%
Magic: 17%

Variations of Resilient Hero Armor.
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Dain (f)

Since 1.09 v2.00, Dain was improved against pikemen but weakened against cavalry. The idea was to improve him against Isengard meleeing armies and to make cavalry less useless against dwarven heroes. Here are the changes made to him:
Cavalry: 33% instead of 25%.
Specialist: 40% instead of 55%.
Uruk: 25% instead of 33%.

Main Counters:

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Heroes with Resilient Armor are just a generally pike weaker version of Tough Heroes, with the exception of a tiny improvement against Heroes. Pikes are still your best weapon against them, however, in the case of Mouth of Sauron and Gandalf they are actually mounted, so they are basically twice stronger against pikes than a normal Mounted Hero Armor. Don't be surprised if they trample your pikes without dying. For patch 1.09 v3.00 this will most likely be changed, at least for mounted Gandalf if not all mounted resilient heroes. On the next tittle i will be keeping 1.09v3 updates.

Possible changes for patch 1.09 v3.00:
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Thranduil (f)
Thranduil might start using the armor variation of Dain (f), implying an armor improvement against pikes but a weaken against cavalry. Then the Resilient Hero Armor will only contain mounted heroes.

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Mouth of Sauron (m), Gandalf (m), Dain (m), Thranduil (m), Sharku (m), Eowyn (m)

Eowyn on her pretty pony might join the club of this armor, which will provide her a superior resistance against pikemen and arrows. Her battle roles will then be similar to Mouth of Sauron.
Dain on his amazing pig and Thranduil on his beautiful Elk will do the same, supposing a nerf for their animal armor. But it will make sense to be weaker against pikes when mounted than on foots.
After Thranduil (f) left this group, the Resilient Hero armor will be containing only mounted heroes, which will be the start point for a series of Pike/Fire/Magic nerfs.

Possible values here:
Specialist: 65% instead of 55%. (Average between MountedHeroArmor, ToughHeroArmor and ResilientHeroArmor)
Flame: 25% instead of 20%. (Average between MountedHeroArmor, ToughHeroArmor and ResilientHeroArmor)
Magic: 28% instead of 17%. (Average between MountedHeroArmor, ToughHeroArmor and ResilientHeroArmor)

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Dodge Rates

What is a Dodge Rate?

Dodge rate is the capacity of units to dodge arrows while moving. Arrows from Archers, Cavalry Ranged, Structures, Ranged Heroes and even Structural arrows are likely to fail when the target hero is moving.
But not everyone has the same dodge rate percentage, and some heroes don't even have dodge rates.
There are heroes that never dodged any arrow, like Witch King. This is why even if 1.06 Witch King had a enormously high amount of health points, arrows could still counter him as they never fail.
And there are special units that whose dodge rate is insanely high. Which means they are almost immune to arrows -as long they are moving-. In the moment dwarf heroes stay in one position (to fight), they are vulnerable to arrows.

Let's see the existing dodge rates of this game.

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Basic heroes dodge rate: 50%

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Glorfindel in particular: 65%

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Dwarven Heroes in particular: 80%

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Shelob in particular: 0%

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Witch King in particular: 35% (Was 0% before 1.09 v2.00)

Other types of units:

Basic Flyers dodge rate: 0%
Eagles in particular 20%
Crebain/Crows: 50%, but they used to dodge 0% before 1.09 v2.00.
Berserkers dodge rate 80%

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If you are completely new to BFME2, all you need is identify which heroes die by Cavalry, which heroes die by Swords, and which heroes die by Pikes. That's a perfect start point. And to be honest, high skilled player don't even bother to know any more than that. Players with 15 years playing this game still get surprised when realize cheap heroes can tank a Sunflare, but a expensive one gets one-shoted.
Once you knowing these 3 basic counters, the only things you are left to learn is when to throw yourself to fight heroes and when to retaliate. A hero without infantry support in this game is something you can kill with two hordes of the respective counter, unless this hero has special abilities or huge damage in area, like Gandalf or Witch King. In that case, you will need to bring a bigger army, and if possible, with upgrades, buffs, leadership and your own heroes. 5k heroes are simply not designed to be countered by early game units, so you need to upgrade yourself, if you haven't got your own 5k hero at that point of the game.

Re-written and updated by Ecthelion.

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Another Guides you may be interested in

Leadership System Guide for 1.09 v2.00
Original Guide created in 2010 by MasterOfPhate for BTP 2.05


Gamereplays.org Official Server

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