Starting positions: [EGC]FinalTier - Isengard - West PoW|Strategy - Elves - East
Overview:
An exciting and exceptionally highly skilled game between two of the best players around. Isengard took an unusual powerpoint route which paid dividends later when the watcher was used to take out fully upgraded units. The unit mixing was superb throughout which made it very difficult for infantry harassment forces to play a huge role in the game. Nevertheless, cavalry soon replaced infantry for harassment and although Fabled seemed to be playing infallibly, Strategy got the upper hand through Arwen and Lancer harassment. Silverthorn arrows followed which almost spelt doom for Isengard immediately, for they decimated counter and unit alike. Although both teams had few resource building’s due to the other’s fantastic harassment. Fabled quit in the end because it was clear that strategy was on top because Fabled could hardly keep a Resource Building up for more than 30 seconds.
[EGC]FinalTier - Isengard
You played really, really well throughout this, especially in the early game. Your start, a ‘drop-drop’ start as I call it, was spot on, with your pit being built very quickly and your initial furnace on 97%. I liked the way you checked the creeps and stole the cash of Strategy, speeding up your warg production and inhibiting his first lancer production. It was also good the way you retreated your unit because you knew you couldn’t win. The micro of the early wargs was superb, using them to kill the archers and then retreating them to allow them to heal. However, the first unit were a waste because they ran straight into pikes. I liked your use of porcupine formation on your uruks to give them more armour so they lasted longer against the lorrien warriors. I liked the way you led Arwen back with wargs through your pikes, meaning she took a lot of damage. Your unit mixing at the beginning was pro, as was the micro meaning Strategy found it difficult to kill your units and harassing forces. However, you crept the top troll lair, and then forgot to collect 2 of the money chests, so you only got half the cash! Throughout the game, your cripple shot and carnage with Lurtz made it difficult for Strategy to use heroes effectively, which was good work! Warg micro throughout this game was terrific, they barely ran into pikes and were devastating when combined with Saruman and devastation, heroes were used very well. Which brings me onto your powerpoint usage, you chose ‘Crebain – Devastation – Watcher – Industry – Dragon Strike’ which was not the normal lumber mill spam I was expecting. However, you used every single one of the powers you acquired very effectively with the exception of Dragon Strike. You attempted to use it on Strategy’s troops, but he moved them all and it ended up killing some of your troops and indirectly lost you a building because you couldn’t get to his ent summon. Watcher usage was incredible, good job! The only major criticism I could find was that there were periods where you could have expanded better, and there were cashfloats occasionally, but both were sorted out quickly. Harassment was brilliant!
Wargs - Lost many wargs unnesicarily to mithlonds - probably due to lag but w/e
Some bad decisions with your pikes and uruks when harassing, stood there and took ST arrow damage - lost 3 batts as a result.
Dragon Strike – You effectively wasted this and this is an important power to get right because it cost 25 pp.
Cashfloat – You could have used this to get upgrades, but you sorted it out with Fort upgrades instead
PoW|Strategy - Elves
You also played with great skill during this game, by cycling your units from attack to healing, allowing you to keep the veteran ones alive, which have better stats. You had tight micro throughout, making it difficult for Fabled to use his wargs to trample your archers. You mixed your units throughout the game effectively, making it extremely difficult for Fabled to counter your army, and normally winning engagements and retreating units to heal. I liked the way you used Arwen’s flood, even though she was pinned by cripple shot, just to give her a hope of survival. You used Arwen to harass solo really well, and her flood power on Fabled’s troops effectively. Your lancer harassment was also very good, preventing him from expanding, which led to him having difficulty later on. You also used your power point powers very well, never wasting them and always using them at the optimal moment. I liked the way you unconventionally tried to get Silverthorn arrows really quickly, but I’m inclined to agree that they are a bit Over powered because they simply blew anything Fabled could muster away. Your harassment was good throughout, and your expansion was good considering it was limited by Fabled’s harassment. I understand it helps the build time and health of the building, but could you explain why you upgrade your Production Buildings in the mid game rather than using up your cash float later on? The only improvement I can think of would be to look after the creeps better, as Fabled stole yours and then got most of the other creep cash.
Creeps – Get the money and creep quickly and efficiently, and protect the creep to prevent him from gaining the money from your effort!
Dont clump ents, this is the 2nd time uve clumped ents that ive seen(one vs blinki). You knew saruman was aboutand he killed them with one simple FB which should have been expected by you
Overall Rating:7 Silver Replay ROTW Contender
This post has been edited by makeshift52: May 22 2007, 14:08 PM
fuck i qwas gonna take this, but tbh makeshift this is unfair to the older reps, this was posted today and sum have bin posted on the plus side of 2 weeks ago
I wanted to post this with the question. I'm dead serious, I need advice. In what way can you counter FU mirks? Because now with EVERY single faction, I am unable to counter them, except Goblins (sometimes). I find that once Elves can achieve FU mirkwoods, they are virtually unkillable. I thought they were supposed to be the archers that had ownage range and relatively high dmg but had low hp, but apparently they have really high hp as well.
And I'm talking about when they have ST. I simply don't know IF it's possible to counter them, whether it's playing as MOTW, Dwarves, or Isengard, and it's a huge pain for Mordor as well. I understand that they are SUPPOSED to be powerful, but have you seen how they compare to rangers? They don't even COME CLOSE...
If no one else thinks it's significant (except for Noviyo), I probably won't complain too much about it, as I know Elves are supposed to have ownage archers... but my question is, are they TOO ownage? Because Isengard doesn't have anything they can do vs them! What unit counters Mirks?? Wargs are farrrrr too pierce vulnerable to even try, and they are so slow they continuously get PWNED by FU lancers. I thought I played really well in this MU too, and the overall score (the ratings) showed me far ahead of him all game (his line was consistently below mine).
The only way I found to counter him was the Watcher, literally, I tried to hold him back until I could use it again. And it's not just as Isengard, I'm seriously have problems beating Elves (and only Elves, I can beat every other faction...).
And before Noviyo comes in and tells me that it's Strategy's brilliant play (which I'm not saying it isn't all the time Strat), I went something like 14-2 when I just started playing Elves, 4-0 vs Strategy (as non-elves), 4-0 vs Blinky, 2-1 vs Ch1ld, 2-0 vs NG, and 2-1 vs Unr3al|System (goblin player, which I think is fine).
To dissuade me though, I simply need someone to consistently beat my Elves with another faction, something I think Strategy said he's up for the task.
Overall, if you compare Rangers to Mirkwoods, Mirkwoods are FAR more cost effective, only costing 200 more but utterly raping where Rangers are just simply good; and I mean OVER THE TOP, in all aspects, Dmg, Dmg when upgraded, HP, range....
This post has been edited by FabledIntegral: May 20 2007, 05:37 AM
Mirkwoods are highly needed in late game for Elves. Just check the replay you posted with Elves vs Men that was so long. Your late game wtfpwned me. It's the ame with Mordors late game and Goblin late game is just simply OMG in this MU.
and how can you talk about statistic? I had better income and everything. You kilelded some more troops then me but that's it. Also watcher is insanely strong.
I hate that I can't play vs good players without an imba discussion. If there existed someone that was as good as me with any other faction I'm sure that they would be nerfed as well. drop it.
I just watched that replay and have to agree. Those Mirkwoods were silly powerful, countering their counter. There was one point in the game where fabled was retreating 2 decimated warg bats (about 6 wargs in total) via the top right where the Elf player had some mirkwoods.
I didn't concentrate on it anymore 'cos I naturally assumed that 6 wargs would make short work of the mirk's. Next second I look the elf players mirk's - ALL OF THEM - are happily trotting back to the base having finished the wargs. Now that was a pure mirks vs wargs (both FU) where wargs SHOULD have won.
Other than that, great play by Strategy and fantastic replay Dude, you just don't let stuff die
Fell free to post your ideas about whos 15pp that did the most damage to the other
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Review by: Makeshift52
Starting positions:
[EGC]FinalTier - Isengard - West
PoW|Strategy - Elves - East
Overview:
An exciting and exceptionally highly skilled game between two of the best players around. Isengard took an unusual powerpoint route which paid dividends later when the watcher was used to take out fully upgraded units. The unit mixing was superb throughout which made it very difficult for infantry harassment forces to play a huge role in the game. Nevertheless, cavalry soon replaced infantry for harassment and although Fabled seemed to be playing infallibly, Strategy got the upper hand through Arwen and Lancer harassment. Silverthorn arrows followed which almost spelt doom for Isengard immediately, for they decimated counter and unit alike. Although both teams had few resource building’s due to the other’s fantastic harassment. Fabled quit in the end because it was clear that strategy was on top because Fabled could hardly keep a Resource Building up for more than 30 seconds.
[EGC]FinalTier - Isengard
You played really, really well throughout this, especially in the early game. Your start, a ‘drop-drop’ start as I call it, was spot on, with your pit being built very quickly and your initial furnace on 97%. I liked the way you checked the creeps and stole the cash of Strategy, speeding up your warg production and inhibiting his first lancer production. It was also good the way you retreated your unit because you knew you couldn’t win. The micro of the early wargs was superb, using them to kill the archers and then retreating them to allow them to heal. However, the first unit were a waste because they ran straight into pikes. I liked your use of porcupine formation on your uruks to give them more armour so they lasted longer against the lorrien warriors. I liked the way you led Arwen back with wargs through your pikes, meaning she took a lot of damage. Your unit mixing at the beginning was pro, as was the micro meaning Strategy found it difficult to kill your units and harassing forces. However, you crept the top troll lair, and then forgot to collect 2 of the money chests, so you only got half the cash! Throughout the game, your cripple shot and carnage with Lurtz made it difficult for Strategy to use heroes effectively, which was good work! Warg micro throughout this game was terrific, they barely ran into pikes and were devastating when combined with Saruman and devastation, heroes were used very well. Which brings me onto your powerpoint usage, you chose ‘Crebain – Devastation – Watcher – Industry – Dragon Strike’ which was not the normal lumber mill spam I was expecting. However, you used every single one of the powers you acquired very effectively with the exception of Dragon Strike. You attempted to use it on Strategy’s troops, but he moved them all and it ended up killing some of your troops and indirectly lost you a building because you couldn’t get to his ent summon. Watcher usage was incredible, good job! The only major criticism I could find was that there were periods where you could have expanded better, and there were cashfloats occasionally, but both were sorted out quickly. Harassment was brilliant!
- Wargs - Lost many wargs unnesicarily to mithlonds - probably due to lag but w/e
- Some bad decisions with your pikes and uruks when harassing, stood there and took ST arrow damage - lost 3 batts as a result.
- Dragon Strike – You effectively wasted this and this is an important power to get right because it cost 25 pp.
- Cashfloat – You could have used this to get upgrades, but you sorted it out with Fort upgrades instead
PoW|Strategy - ElvesYou also played with great skill during this game, by cycling your units from attack to healing, allowing you to keep the veteran ones alive, which have better stats. You had tight micro throughout, making it difficult for Fabled to use his wargs to trample your archers. You mixed your units throughout the game effectively, making it extremely difficult for Fabled to counter your army, and normally winning engagements and retreating units to heal. I liked the way you used Arwen’s flood, even though she was pinned by cripple shot, just to give her a hope of survival. You used Arwen to harass solo really well, and her flood power on Fabled’s troops effectively. Your lancer harassment was also very good, preventing him from expanding, which led to him having difficulty later on. You also used your power point powers very well, never wasting them and always using them at the optimal moment. I liked the way you unconventionally tried to get Silverthorn arrows really quickly, but I’m inclined to agree that they are a bit Over powered because they simply blew anything Fabled could muster away. Your harassment was good throughout, and your expansion was good considering it was limited by Fabled’s harassment. I understand it helps the build time and health of the building, but could you explain why you upgrade your Production Buildings in the mid game rather than using up your cash float later on? The only improvement I can think of would be to look after the creeps better, as Fabled stole yours and then got most of the other creep cash.
- Creeps – Get the money and creep quickly and efficiently, and protect the creep to prevent him from gaining the money from your effort!
- Dont clump ents, this is the 2nd time uve clumped ents that ive seen(one vs blinki). You knew saruman was aboutand he killed them with one simple FB which should have been expected by you
Overall Rating: 7Silver Replay
ROTW Contender