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CNC Zero Hour

[R] Down to 2 Units - Insane Stealth vs SWG

#11Leikeze  Jan 30 2020, 17:59 PM -
Oh my, I love this map, wonderfully green, easy on the eyes, and it's a good map on top of that. Would love to see more games on these top-down maps.

Comments on Phoenix_ IPB Image
  • Ha, I didn't know you numbered your dozers at the start, nice.
  • Hmm, the old faithful no-WF defensive start, it can be a good one if it works out, a bit dangerous on some maps, but this one it can be pulled off nicely; Though, perhaps you could have placed the right-EMP up a bit, like on the path next to it, so it could more easily guard the whole side from a tech/Quad coming that way.
  • Getting your MD to walk left-of his middle tunnel to garrison the house on the other side of the hospital. That guy took down the other house before being accidentally called back to base, walking into the tunnel network. sad.gif
  • The first success of the EMP start looked to be immediately paying off, stopping his first harassing RPG tech, but then he hit it with the TT while you weren't paying attention to it, targetting it with the EMP would have saved you some time and money there, if it were at all possible (I can't see what you were looking at at the moment); Could have allowed you to go for the other side quickly because you wouldn't have to pay much attention to the left.

    The bit of micro saving your Vee was done just in time, can't afford to waste anything early on against Stealth. It could be more beneficial to rebuild it slightly further out, like it originally was, just so it works in conjunction with the bunker, not a big deal or anything.
  • The lack of an ambulance early on can be harmful, but more so is not knowing where tunnels are. To get around this, try waypoint scouting any place that you see a worker not building something, as this is a clear indication that a tunnel should be nearby. Once you can't place the rally point, beacon it for later. Going in blind is never a good thing until you've got something like 4/5 full Vees with S&D.
  • Snatching the initial capture on the left-middle oil just before he did was a little boost, protecting that thing can become a life-line for USAs, so it;s best that you don't let him capture it, if you can.
  • The defense against his first tech push on the left side was a bit hairy. The EMP initially stopped the techs entirely, until his TT came in (that one was unavoidable), then it came to engaging the Techs directly, which should have gone swell, considering you both emptied, and you had a good position to defend from. However, there were too few Laser Locks going on to make the situation seem like a small thing, and sending all of the Vees back isn't necessary in such a case, just micro the low-heath ones back, continue on attack move with the strong ones. It's the height of USA micro in ZH to do engagements like that, dropping, Laser Locking multiple techs, and moving Vees around. It worked out for you in the end of course, losing a very little, while he lost everything.
  • And then there was this, which I know you can figure out for yourself. eyebrow.gif
    IPB Image
  • The attack on his tunnels/stinger on the right was a bit hasty, could have waited for S&D & got drones, so you wouldn't lose anything, but, again, it was a successful attack, destroying much more than you lost. But it's what you did next - Eek! don't destroy oils that you've just secured! They are very important for the late game economy.
  • Stopping his TTs coming up the right was nice, don't want to deal with that stuff any longer, having an Aurora to bring behind your army should have made a buggy counter instead of being used elsewhere, and again, this time with the left-middle oil, no need to destroy what can be yours.
  • Missing the bus with your Aurora could have been a big problem, thankfully it wasn't capitalized on. You got slightly over-aggressive for a moment after that, attacking down the right side instead of focusing your army on the middle, still had good trading. But an important note of advice, you should immediately begin collecting the middle money with your Chinooks (if you don't have extra, make one, or two in your case). This will allow you to maintain production of units as the game moves forward (would have helped so much in this game).
  • Using the Spectre on his Palace, alongside your Particle, was not necessary. The particle cannon is strong enough to destroy his Palace, supply, and WF on the left, while the Spectre could destroy his oil on the right. Such a hit would be hard on him and would have saved you from the idea to attack the right side, as you could have continued focus on the middle, and worked into his base (Aurora for support against his pops works better than A-10 for timing). If his Buggies went down during your push into the middle, he wouldn't have a chance without a Palace to rebuild them.
  • Losing both Auroras in the middle to his Quads because they were on guard mode. - It was just one of those things you know. post-13661-1143531603.gif A very big loss at a critical point. He decided to go straight up to your base after that, doing some good damage to you by destroying so many Vees, you being out of money while he had lots coming in, however, you were fully promoted, and did a perfect preemptive A-10 strike on his units at the middle supplies, followed by a very risky move with your Vee, nearly losing all the MD's inside.
  • The ensuing Particle Cannons and other powers were beating him to a pulp, but he still got that cheeky GPS scrambled TT into your base to shut off your power, then again with his Ambush, then his random Quad up the left, really stifling your advantage.
  • Keeping the Vee around the back of his CC so long was a risky move, and it proved too risky when he ended up tox bombing it, but you still had two Vees.
Comments for -ViRuS^ IPB Image
  • Going for the typical Stealth BO, it works. You can't afford to waste much early on, as SW creams you in the late game, so after your first attack up the left was stopped by an EMP, and you could see there was an EMP on the right as well, you should have assumed the strategy he'd gone for, and adapted to it. He was essentially allowing you to take and bunker the whole map, whilst doing some TTs or whatever in the meantime, popping and picking off some offensive Vees he sends, and getting yourself into a position to steamroll his base.
  • Your technical attack on the right side was not well planned, you should have TT'd the EMP first, then came in with the rest of the techs behind the WF, send a Tech or two (with RPG's in it) around to the left side of his base to further harass, and when he sent his army back, you just send what techs you've got on the right, back into your tunnels.

    The obvious follow up to such a thing would be doing it on the other side as well, allowing you to harass both sides without the threat of an EMP there. Working on his Chinooks, picking off a few Vees, keeping his attention on defending his base, and not attacking your map control. During all this time, you should not be floating any money, just continuing to secure the map.
  • You cannot afford to allow a USA opponent the liberty of destroying all of your map control with his Vees. Just use your Buggies to try picking some off. If you micro is done well, it will pay off big time.
  • One thing you did in this game came as a surprise. The bus up the right side into his base while he was attacking. Here is a pro tip, something that Boycah and others use. Put a worker into your bus, then do what you did. Had you dropped a worker in the back of his base as soon as the bus was in, you could have had a tunnel up, allowing you to do a lot more damage.

    Also, after dodging the Aurora bomb, you had the opportunity to do more damage, but you only destroyed the Aurora, then drove back to destroy a diminished supply center. You could have destroyed the Airfield, took him out of power, stole a Dozer, or just done considerably more with the situation.
  • You invested into late game economy when you desperately needed buggies and map control tunnels so you could continue attacking his base. Something to keep in mind is, he is definitely going to run out of money before you do, you're GLA, you can take the middle money with ease, and have an oil.

    All you've got to do is make him waste what units he has, crack his defenses, not do a bad pop or blown up by Auroras, and you've got a simple game of attrition.
  • Shooting down his two Auroras in the middle was fabulous.
  • With your GPS scrambled attack, in the middle of his base, where he had defense, S&D uncloaking your units, and clear shots for Generals Powers, you still could have pulled it off by using your Buggies when he came to engage your army, holding the Quads back until he was close enough to fire on, this way you don't waste them before he wastes his.

    Attacking from the right side, where you knew no EMP was, would have been better to begin with. Your initial move would be using your Ambush on his Strategy Center, making his army move over there, so you could engage the right side without that threat for a few more seconds, allowing you to destroy the WF, or his Particle Cannon (it would help you get promoted toward 5 stars), then worked on challenging his army, which, if he didn't attack from beneath the WF (if you didn't destroy it), he would be engaging with 1 Vee at a time, the ideal situation for melting them with your Quads.
  • Overall, you made this a harder game for yourself at times, especially not going for Cash Bounty x3 over Ambush. It saves you in the late game to have that extra cash coming in.
It was definitely a close game between the players, who looked to be around the same level, which is always nice.

Both sides made mistakes here and there that helped their opponent out, extending the length of the game, but providing more intensity for one another. I'm sure it was a fun one to play, SW vs GLA in the late game usually is, when it's even.

2.8/10 for my entertainment because -ViRuS^ didn't see about using his Ambush vs the two remaining Vees.
#12Phoenix-  Jan 30 2020, 18:33 PM -

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USA vs GLA is by far the most entertaining late game but never ever should stealth play until late game against usa. It's such a horrendous imba match up.
I agree with the points you have mentioned. Playing with people at the same skill is so much better than getting destroyed for years like some semis here.
#13Leikeze  Jan 30 2020, 18:42 PM -
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True, true, people should only play what's fun for them, and being GLA in the late game vs SW is just about the most depressing situation they can get.
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