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Command and Conquer 3

An alternative ranked map pool

Initial impressions: Most interesting map?
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Cross Town UK
0.00% (0)
High Rise
50.00% (2)
Labyrinth
25.00% (1)
Tournament Lake
0.00% (0)
Tournament Meadow
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Tournament Pit
25.00% (1)
Tournament Ridge
0.00% (0)
Urban Roulette

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# 1shocktapus Nov 21 2017, 22:13 PM
Hello,

I am excited to announce a project to create an alternative map pool for Tiberium Wars, one that focuses on what makes Tiberium Wars unique and accentuating the aspects of gameplay that make it both skillful and fun to play.

I have designed and drafted in WorldBuilder (very roughly drafted) 8 new maps, and with the help of Luvaskot, (and anyone else who would like to volunteer) we want to get them in a polished condition to help inject a new sense of novelty into playing ranked games again.

The goal of these maps is to keep them simple and as gimmick free as possible, but having unique twists to them that make playing on them a different strategical experience to playing on the standard set of maps that we have been playing on for the last 10 years.

Below is a summary of the maps and the inspiration behind them:

Crosstown UK
Attached Image

Inspiration: Tournament Rift/Dustbowl
Design comments:
This map is designed to play like two of the most popular maps in Tiberium Wars: Rift and Dustbowl. Something that plagues both Rift and Dustbowl is the contested spikes, so in this map there is only one spike, which is exposed but easily defensible in the early game. I wanted the 1st expansion field to be closer to your opponent so that early expands are more easily punishable with the 2nd expansion field further away, but a long distance away from the main. This means that even though it will be a longer distance to attack this field for the opponent, the action is forced by having to traverse this large distance to hold 3 bases, making map control/vision important and sneaky distraction manoeuvres more potent.

As is common in a lot of the new KW maps, two small blue fields were added for leeching, one for each player. One key difference is a small green field in the centre of the map, designed for leeching, which may be make or break as the action extends into a gruelling late-game struggle.

Buildings are placed to provide vision around the map and provide tactical defence (or offence!) of the 1st expansion field.

High Rise
Attached Image

Inspiration:Tournament Tower
Design comments:
Tournament Tower is one of my favourite maps, and one of the things I love about Tower is the close-quarters combat and the importance of the middle platform in restricting army movement to make flanks along the sides more powerful. I also like the fact that it is great for basecrawl - an element of the game that is sadly underused in the conventional ranked map designs for TW.

The idea with High Rise is to have an inverted version of the middle platform, where players start more towards the middle of the map with two platforms providing starting locations that cut the bases off from each other. This means that to go to your opponents base from your starting location you have to initially go in the opposite direction. The map is designed so you can basecrawl from the initial platform to your second field, however this choice comes at a cost - your warfactory or other building used to crawl down from the starting platform is exposed and units that travel from this have to go a longer way around than what is normal to protect your main, something that gives a clear risk/reward that is otherwise absent from other maps where basecrawl is common.

Towards the lategame, the middle platform provides an obstruction between the 1st and 2nd expansions making scouting and tactical army movement important to be able to cover all ground. As late game arrives, the starting bases become very vulnerable so important decisions about where to place tech buildings and which bases to hold become key.

Labyrinth
Attached Image

Inspiration: Rift/Coastline/Barstow
Design comments:
This map is the one I am least confident in after initial playtesting and will probably need significant changes. I wanted a map where getting to the middle and the opponent's base is a bit of a pain - opening up the option for air-focused play and also making infantry as a defence in response to unscouted attacks weaker due to the distance/time it would take to counter-attack after defending.

Small blue fields are at the choke points in the Maze, partly so that an MCV moving across it to expand cannot deploy and leaving it vulnerable to sniping from enemy units, and partly because I thought it would be cool. Both corner expansions can be taken from the main or you can try to claim the middle of the map, but you have to navigate your army/MCV through the labyrinth! Will it be worth the journey?

Tournament Lake
Attached Image

Inspiration:Tournament Arena
Design comments:
The map is designed to play like Tournament Arena, but without the blue tiberium, and with a huge lake in the middle of the map. The idea is for the lake to provide an obstruction to prevent multi-mcv attacks and limit the impact of basecrawl + defences and also to provide two distinct alleys of attack. All bases can be crawled to with basecrawl, or maybe you want to take a risky expansion on your opponent's side of the map?!

Tournament Meadow
Attached Image

Inspiration:Tournament Dustbowl/Arena
Design comments:
This is a map where I wanted to focus on choices - you have two possible fields to expand to as your second field - one that is more aggressive but more exposed, also giving you easy access to the blue Tiberium, and one that is much more defensive but providing less of an immediate advantage. Two small ridges and a building were placed near the more forward field to give it slightly more cover, but also provide chokes for opponents armies to exploit and a building that can be used aggressively to harass.

The spikes are designed to be captured uncontested but very exposed to assault if you intend on camping in your base. In general the map is large and open allowing for sneak attacks, and with expansions that are towards the opponent to provide an incentive for action.

Tournament Pit
Attached Image

Inspiration:Barstow Badlands
Design comments:
I wanted a map that had close-quarters fighting but without the balance problems Barstow has with the contested spike and narrow choke points. Expand to the middle and see who can hold it best - can anyone come up with any special tactics to take advantage of this premise?

Tournament Ridge
Attached Image

Inspiration:Tournament Coastline/Tournament Rift/Pipeline Problems
Design comments:
This is a map where the 1st or 2nd expansion (dependant on choice) is almost completely walled off by a massive ridge. Hopefully this can provide some interesting tactical holds and comebacks with the rest of the map providing more than enough Tiberium to compete with a player trying to hold on a single base. Spikes are exposed but initially safe to capture and the higher yield riskier forward expansion can be used as a springboard to claim your opponent's forward expansion whilst they retreat to the safety of the ridge!

Urban Roulette
Attached Image

Inspiration:Small Town USA
Design comments:
It is called Roulette because of the circular nature of how you expand and also because of the element of chance - where you place your first refinery can have a huge impact on how the game pans out. If you place your refinery with eyes to expand to the field where your opponent is also heading for, prepare to battle for your expansion! If you start to crawl in the opposite direction, the game will play out very differently. This is a map for multi-mcv players and also players who like close-quarters combat.

The buildings provide chokes and the 2 spikes per player (which are safe) provide additional income on a small map but are exposed so that capture/destruction is possible if you attempt to focus your forces too much in a single location giving your opponent a marginal advantage that could see them through to victory!





I'd like to get these maps out there in the community in their early stages of development so they can be played on and designs can be reworked to incorporate suggestions of the players who will be playing on them so they can be the best they can be.

They can be got by downloading the zip file provided. Please hop online and get trying them out and let me know of any comments.


Attached File(s)
Attached File Maps.zip
Size: 395.24k
Number of downloads: 21
Player Name Side Team


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Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 2PoKeMoM Nov 21 2017, 23:02 PM
i'm not afraid of you shocktreatment.

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Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 3shocktapus Nov 22 2017, 10:19 AM
I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean?


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Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 4Claymore92 Nov 22 2017, 12:26 PM
Will give them a try.

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# 5Technique Nov 22 2017, 13:07 PM
Cool initiative.

That High Rise map might be problematic.
In kw I've tried several of those start close together but with an obstacle in between layouts (ra2 had some cool maps with this principle). But Shadow team and orca/bloodhound rush simply ruin those maps in kw. In tw it's a bit less volatile, but still.

Tournament Ridge look most interesting to me at first glance. (based on the pictures, didn't try the actual maps ingame)



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# 6Claymore92 Nov 22 2017, 16:59 PM
Took a quick look at Labyrinth, Pit, High Rise and Crosstown.

High Rise is pretty good, my favorite out of those 4. You can place buildings to get build radius to the north and to the south. Provides the opportunity for many build orders I think. I think you used too many different textures in the map. In my opinon 3-4 different ones would be fine.

Pit... I like the idea of the map as explained in your first post.

Crosstown. Idea is fine, but the two used textures don't fit together in my opinion. Needs new textures I would say. The few buildings placed seem like out of place. Some additional objects and/or roads around them would be fine and make them blend in more natural.

Labyrinth. I agree, needs revision. The way it is, I think it would lead to boring low eco & mcv move games.

Overall, the project has potential. You did not use the edge out tool on many occasions to blend out sharp edges. Aside from that, my suggestion would be adding some objects to fill space in the maps and adding an additional texture or two to one-texture maps to make them more appealing to the eye. Hope I was not too harsh, as I appreciate your work.

I can't say more as I just took a quick look at the maps - not played them with someone. After doing some games I'll be able to write more.

I made minimaps for the 4 maps I checked out as I would hate playing without the minimap. I can spare you the work of having to do them yourself by posting them here if you want.

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# 7Claymore92 Nov 22 2017, 17:16 PM
Don't know what your future plans are, but I suggest finishing the maps one by one instead of dividing your efforts into completing all of them at the same time. I would prefer two-three good looking, well balanced maps that encourage different gameplay instead of 8 ugly, plain simple and boring maps (e.g. Labyrinth). I am aware that labyrinth is still in its early stages of development, but I hope you know what I mean. Better to finish them one by one.

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# 8shocktapus Nov 22 2017, 17:16 PM
QUOTE(Claymore92 @ Nov 22 2017, 17:59 PM) *

Took a quick look at Labyrinth, Pit, High Rise and Crosstown.

High Rise is pretty good, my favorite out of those 4. You can place buildings to get build radius to the north and to the south. Provides the opportunity for many build orders I think. I think you used too many different textures in the map. In my opinon 3-4 different ones would be fine.

Pit... I like the idea of the map as explained in your first post.

Crosstown. Idea is fine, but the two used textures don't fit together in my opinion. Needs new textures I would say. The few buildings placed seem like out of place. Some additional objects and/or roads around them would be fine and make them blend in more natural.

Labyrinth. I agree, needs revision. The way it is, I think it would lead to boring low eco & mcv move games.

Overall, the project has potential. You did not use the edge out tool on many occasions to blend out sharp edges. Aside from that, my suggestion would be adding some objects to fill space in the maps and adding an additional texture or two to one-texture maps to make them more appealing to the eye. Hope I was not too harsh, as I appreciate your work.

I can't say more as I just took a quick look at the maps - not played them with someone. After doing some games I'll be able to write more.

I made minimaps for the 4 maps I checked out as I would hate playing without the minimap. I can spare you the work of having to do them yourself by posting them here if you want.


Thanks Claymore - Luvaskot has been doing texture work for High Rise and I think it looks good as a draft, obviously it is still being worked on.

In terms of the other maps, none of the textures are supposed to look good yet - they are only there to provide a very basic baseline so you can get a feel as to how the map is played.

The feedback needed is mainly for the strategical aspects of the maps: field locations, impassable terrain, spikes etc. and how these force you to play the game. Once the tactical elements of the maps are finalised then sprucing up the textures and adding objects as decoration and to fill out empty space will come.

And yes, posting the minimaps here would be very helpful - thank you!

This post has been edited by shocktapus: Nov 22 2017, 17:27 PM


Posts: 4,203

Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 9shocktapus Nov 22 2017, 17:25 PM
QUOTE(Technique @ Nov 22 2017, 14:07 PM) *

Cool initiative.

That High Rise map might be problematic.
In kw I've tried several of those start close together but with an obstacle in between layouts (ra2 had some cool maps with this principle). But Shadow team and orca/bloodhound rush simply ruin those maps in kw. In tw it's a bit less volatile, but still.

Tournament Ridge look most interesting to me at first glance. (based on the pictures, didn't try the actual maps ingame)


It would be nice to play a few games vs you on some of the maps as you have both great experience as a player, and at this point as a mapmaker. I really like the concept of High Rise, but I agree about your reservations.


QUOTE(Claymore92 @ Nov 22 2017, 18:16 PM) *

Don't know what your future plans are, but I suggest finishing the maps one by one instead of dividing your efforts into completing all of them at the same time. I would prefer two-three good looking, well balanced maps that encourage different gameplay instead of 8 ugly, plain simple and boring maps (e.g. Labyrinth). I am aware that labyrinth is still in its early stages of development, but I hope you know what I mean. Better to finish them one by one.


The plan is to get to a point where we have 8 maps ready - the idea of releasing the designs and the very early untextured versions is to see which maps the players think have the most potential and which ones need changing. This allows the ones that the players want to see worked on to be developed while the others can take a back seat while this is happening.

From my perspective, I do not care too much for the texturing/objects as I feel it is how the map plays that is important, so I would prefer to have basic maps that are playable released first. I do understand that players do like nice looking maps so the ones that are popular can then be made to look nicer once we know which ones those are. For example, I don't want to spend hours trying to make Labyrinth look really nice and have no-one play it because ultimately it is a flawed map - this is the purpose of releasing maps in their current draft format.


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Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 10Claymore92 Nov 22 2017, 17:35 PM
Then I suggest putting all effort into High Rise first. It looks pretty good. One could say it is semi complete. I 'll be busy today and tomorrow, but I'll be free to check it out with you and/or Luvaskot on the weekend. Here the minimaps for the 4 maps. I can do the other 4 later too, on the weekend.

Attached File New_WinRAR_archive.rar
Size: 423.08k
Number of downloads: 13

Posts: 724


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# 11shocktapus Nov 22 2017, 17:48 PM
QUOTE(Claymore92 @ Nov 22 2017, 18:35 PM) *

Then I suggest putting all effort into High Rise first. It looks pretty good. One could say it is semi complete. I 'll be busy today and tomorrow, but I'll be free to check it out with you and/or Luvaskot on the weekend. Here the minimaps for the 4 maps. I can do the other 4 later too, on the weekend.

Attached File New_WinRAR_archive.rar
Size: 423.08k
Number of downloads: 13



That would be much appreciated - I am not going to be here this weekend but next week for sure. The reason we started working on High Rise first is it is the one that the most people have enjoyed who I have shown it to so far. I agree, in it's current state it is semi-complete. The field positions need tweaking slightly and a few decorative objects adding along with smoothing out the textures.


Posts: 4,203

Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 12Claymore92 Nov 25 2017, 16:16 PM
On second thought, I think this project is a waste of time. Server activity has never been as low as in the past few days. Only redzone one mappers online. We may call TW officially dead now. It has never been harder to get games going.

This post has been edited by Claymore92: Nov 25 2017, 16:27 PM

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# 13phantom9399 Nov 26 2017, 06:47 AM
QUOTE(Technique @ Nov 22 2017, 21:07 PM) *

That High Rise map might be problematic.
In kw I've tried several of those start close together but with an obstacle in between layouts (ra2 had some cool maps with this principle). But Shadow team and orca/bloodhound rush simply ruin those maps in kw. In tw it's a bit less volatile, but still.


If you make the map wide enough you could potentially make bloodhound/shadow team less effective due to high travel time. The only problem would be orca rush.

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# 14Claymore92 Dec 9 2017, 11:35 AM
Shock you stopped playing or what? We have a playable version of Roulette that needs testing.

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# 15shocktapus Dec 9 2017, 13:19 PM
I'm still about - can come on later today


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# 16Claymore92 Dec 27 2017, 15:15 PM
A look at final version of Pit. Thanks Shocktreatment and Luvaskot for help on this project.
Attached Image

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# 17Claymore92 Feb 10 2018, 16:30 PM
Shock would be good if you could take a look at this draft and give your thoughts on whether it's (visually) ready for publishing, since gameplay-wise we already finished testing. I would have preferred to send it to you via private message but I cannot attach this file to the message.

This post has been edited by Claymore92: Feb 11 2018, 21:57 PM

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# 18shocktapus Feb 11 2018, 11:37 AM
I'll come online this evening and we can play a few games and I'll take a look.


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# 19Claymore92 Feb 11 2018, 17:43 PM
Come now if you can.

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# 20Claymore92 Feb 12 2018, 14:08 PM
Shock wanna do the games we could not do yesterday tonight? I'll be free around 19 o'clock GMT +1.

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