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CNC Generals

Autumn/Winter 2017/18 Big Comebacks for CCG Revival?

Could you spare a few evenings to play some CCG again?
46.67% (7)
yes
20.00% (3)
yes, but only if CCG is active
33.33% (5)
no
Would you like to have some tourneys
66.67% (10)
yes
0.00% (0)
yes, but only if they are played within one evening/day
33.33% (5)
no
GR member Krew designed new balanced official maps [they are very cool!], would you like to play on them?
40.00% (6)
yes
60.00% (9)
no

Total Votes: 45
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# 1Diamond- Aug 25 2017, 14:05 PM
Hello CCG-veterans and everyone else,

who would be up for some CCG in upcoming autumn and winter? We could make the cnc online ladder active and explore the point system! I am also thinking of some tournaments (both 1v1 and 2v2 with some sort of a new special format to make the tournament more fun and create something new) and if possible even a new edition of a CCG World Series 2017 in December/January?

Maybe we can get some money involved as well and attract some ZH players (and also some new players) to play some CCG (there is still a small prize pool left from last year).

I recently played some nice games with Ammo, Justin, Funge and Trojan which was cool to see so I thought maybe it could be possible to start playing a few games in the evenings/during weekends again. The more that would join, the more fun it would be after such a long time now smile.gif

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# 2BoWZeR Aug 25 2017, 14:30 PM
no hope

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# 3Diamond- Aug 25 2017, 15:48 PM
Who knows? wink.gif

After summer many might be ok with playing some matches during the darker and colder evenings. Let's see!

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# 4Jundiyy Aug 25 2017, 16:01 PM
I don't mind playing CCG, the times that I have tried online though, only few players and not wanting to play much.

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# 5BoWZeR Aug 25 2017, 17:40 PM
You need money

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# 6Ka$$aD Aug 25 2017, 21:14 PM
Nothing against active CCG events, I have participated in some myself in the past but on the long term I think it would be more reasonable if the CCG players join the ZH community and its events.

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# 7Diamond- Aug 25 2017, 22:21 PM
I understand what you mean, Kassad, but the classic Generals has always been more attractive for a specific group of people. If we want enhanced activity and - let's not forget that - fun, then we need our old Gens playerbase with all their experience, otherwise the level of play is too far apart between the different players (mostly). All these old players I think would just come back for CCG and not to play ZH. And I realised that super active months will most likly not happen again, but if anyone would just invest a tiny bit of time, it would already be cool to revive good old days playing exciting matches on high level! ... with close endings, right, Krew? wink.gif

I find ZH interesting though, I have to admit, but since it would take an enormous amount of dedication and time for us CCG players to get competitive in ZH with all these 144 matchups, I can hardly imagine that we - the old players - could invest that time. Seeing that the ZH community is also losing more and more of their top players, I would imagine a lot of guys do not want to learn a game which is also already in a declining stage (sadly though). It is easier for the ZH guys to play/learn CCG than the other way round. You need a lot more time to get used to all these armies. This is why I thought of ZH players occasionally joining CCG to increase the CCG activity a bit smile.gif

I think the best to keep both games alive is trying to create some activity which would bring back the fun of playing, so that one would invest two evenings per week playing some games. As we all get older other things kick in and I bet no one could ever spam as much as he used to, but there is no need to do that in order to create some activity, thankfully

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# 8Fargo Aug 26 2017, 01:49 AM
QUOTE(Ka$$aD @ Aug 25 2017, 22:14 PM) *

Nothing against active CCG events, I have participated in some myself in the past but on the long term I think it would be more reasonable if the CCG players join the ZH community and its events.

Exactly

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# 9Cypher Aug 26 2017, 11:53 AM
ZH is an abomination. There's a good reason why nobody ever had that many factions in a game before (it's a stupid idea) and after ZH (it's a proven stupid idea). Keep CCG in a good memory, cut out that ZH ever existed.

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# 10-HerB- Aug 26 2017, 15:11 PM
QUOTE(Cypher @ Aug 26 2017, 11:53 AM) *

ZH is an abomination. There's a good reason why nobody ever had that many factions in a game before (it's a stupid idea) and after ZH (it's a proven stupid idea). Keep CCG in a good memory, cut out that ZH ever existed.


well, looks like you've never played other RTS than command and conquer? what about age of mythology the titans? zeus, hades, poseidon, thor, odin, loki, kronos, oranos, gaia, isis, ra, set

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# 11Diamond- Aug 26 2017, 17:26 PM
I think the idea of having more armies is cool, just honestly 12 armies are a bit too much. This cannot be balanced. I would say 4-6 armies might be awesome. I respect how ZH works and I find it amazing that several players managed to find strategies in all matchups that might even work somehow despite huge imbalance. Though this takes so much time, dedication and effort and then still, you will lose certain games vs an average player just because of the armies.

I would imagine a CCG with a 4th army and many more different official style maps would be so epic. Could still be very balanced and a large map pool would make everything so much more enjoyable smile.gif

But I will always keep CCG in good memory, it was and still is an epic game. Hope to bring back at least a little bit of life to it wink.gif

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# 12Jundiyy Aug 26 2017, 19:09 PM
I lost all my CCG maps and many ZH maps on my old computer when it suddenly died, although I am still making maps for ZH at the moment (finishing off a few to be honest right now) and did think of making something for CCG last month, would be cool of course.
My maps were from over 10 years ago and even I don't remember them (only made a few), don't think anyone has them anymore though.
What time do most players be on as I hardly ever see anyone on?

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# 13Diamond- Aug 26 2017, 20:12 PM
Hey, this sounds cool! Players are online in the evenings (GMT time), but nearly exclusively on gameranger atm. I am currently pretty busy with work, but in 4 weeks I will have more time for CCG again. Only playing like once per week on average until then. Let's keep in touch and see if we can get some players back for the autumn/winter months. smile.gif

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# 14trve^viking Aug 26 2017, 20:44 PM
QUOTE(Diamond- @ Aug 25 2017, 23:21 PM) *

...us CCG players to get competitive in ZH with all these 144 matchups, I can hardly imagine that we - the old players - could invest that time. Seeing that the ZH community is also losing more and more of their top players, I would imagine a lot of guys do not want to learn a game which is also already in a declining stage....

looks like you speak for yourself tongue.gif cause a lot (old)ccg players switched to zh and learned it fast.ive seen trigger,trojan and funge online just this week + a lot more,like meany for example,in the past years. just start playing and youll get into it in no time. would be easier to convince people to also play games on ccg as well or host ccg or hybrid tourneys etc.

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# 15Diamond- Aug 26 2017, 21:51 PM
QUOTE(trve^viking @ Aug 26 2017, 21:44 PM) *

looks like you speak for yourself tongue.gif cause a lot (old)ccg players switched to zh and learned it fast.ive seen trigger,trojan and funge online just this week + a lot more,like meany for example,in the past years. just start playing and youll get into it in no time. would be easier to convince people to also play games on ccg as well or host ccg or hybrid tourneys etc.


Haha, yea true tongue.gif
But if we are honest, then the CCG players never reached top level in ZH simply because they did not play enough games. No offense to any CCG player having played ZH but the strong ZH players are just quite a lot better, and this is not because they are better in general but because they have played up to 10 times the amount of games compared to the CCG players wink.gif
(Which of course is needed to know the 144 matchups quite well. Imagine you want to play each matchup at least 10-20 times, then you already need 1500 to 3000 games alone for the 1v1s. And as you know, in order to get really good you rather need 100-200 games per matchup, which would be 15k to 30k games - that's an insane amount, and teamgames are not even included there, haha)

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# 16Jundiyy Aug 27 2017, 06:00 AM
Lol, trust me, it isn't that bad at all, all 3 factions still follow similar patterns, you just have to adjust as you go along, for example demo, naturally mass use demo bikes as they are there to be used, rather than using bikes from stealth or toxin, if you are toxin, use toxin rebels in your busses/technicals with RPGs, but don't use them if you are GLA and so on.
Laser, use Laser tanks, very powerful, USA, maybe use Crusaders if you really need to but rather just go loads of Missile Defenders against a lot of tanks.
And so on, it isn't really that hard to get used to it, at most, you could just have a few games vs Easy Army to test the units.

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# 17BoWZeR Aug 27 2017, 15:50 PM
Im a top 3v3 player in ZH but i suck in 2v2 and 1v1 lol

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# 18Cypher Aug 27 2017, 18:02 PM
QUOTE(-HerB- @ Aug 26 2017, 23:11 PM) *

well, looks like you've never played other RTS than command and conquer? what about age of mythology the titans? zeus, hades, poseidon, thor, odin, loki, kronos, oranos, gaia, isis, ra, set


Point taken, however if memory serves right (only played SP), it wasn't a particularly good RTS. AoE2 would have made a better argument, however some factions were downright draft losses and resulted in extremely easy wins. AoE2 as well as AoE3 never really took off as much as BW or WC3 did, for a good reason: shitty balance and mediocre support.

A decent RTS is balanced around maps with slight tweaks to its 2-3 factions, anything above that is nigh impossible to balance*. Just refer to WC3 and its items which added so much RNG that after a certain level a single item drop will turn an even game into a >rage-altf4 >uninstall-wc3 stomp.

* I know we're talking EA here, therefor a moot point, EA couldn't even balance BW if given ownership right now. On the bright side, Blizzard seems to have lost its talent, so all is well.

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# 19trve^viking Aug 27 2017, 20:03 PM
QUOTE(Diamond- @ Aug 26 2017, 22:51 PM) *

Haha, yea true tongue.gif
But if we are honest, then the CCG players never reached top level in ZH simply because they did not play enough games. No offense to any CCG player having played ZH but the strong ZH players are just quite a lot better, and this is not because they are better in general but because they have played up to 10 times the amount of games compared to the CCG players wink.gif
(Which of course is needed to know the 144 matchups quite well. Imagine you want to play each matchup at least 10-20 times, then you already need 1500 to 3000 games alone for the 1v1s. And as you know, in order to get really good you rather need 100-200 games per matchup, which would be 15k to 30k games - that's an insane amount, and teamgames are not even included there, haha)

depends what you count as top level play cause there are a lot zh players that never reached top level either tongue.gif
there are/were ccg players that played "good" at zh.
the basics for a lot matchups are the same and stuff like speed,micro and adaption are more important imo.
you could also make the argument for any game or almost anything that is around longer,why play chess,soccer,tennis etc when there are people that played 10k games more and are better than you?







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# 20Diamond- Aug 27 2017, 20:12 PM
Yea this is true, for me the problem is time. I cannot play as much anymore as I used to some years ago. I can and definitely will play during a few evenings though but until I would get good in ZH, I bet the game would be too dead as well sadly. So best solution atm would be if we could keep both games alive with their respective player base - at least for a little bit. CCG is too good of a game to let it go, I love it too much tongue.gif

If some old players, you included, would come and play a few games here and there, this would be very cool. We need a few to join though so that it's not super hard to arrange games. I miss playing GG's vs a lot of guys. Hope to see some in the upcoming months from September/October on!

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