Explore GameReplays...

Dawn of War 3

Balance Feedback: July 27, 2017

Reply to this topic Start new topic
# 1Jelly Jul 28 2017, 04:15 AM
Relic are releasing their notes in advance again to gather feedback before the patch is deployed.

Notable changes include much more expensive power generators, reduced escalation 1 power income, and numerous nerfs to Orks.

See the notes here.

This post has been edited by Jelly: Jul 28 2017, 06:58 AM


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Attached highlight
Attached Image

Posts: 269

Game: Dawn of War 3


+
# 2HARRYY Jul 28 2017, 09:05 AM
I dont see the reason to tweak the overall power income to lengthen T1. Higher REQ cost is something they can try ofc.

the arguement with NOB might just been an example, but isnt it bbetter to tweak NOBZ ? (or other units)

Posts: 6,138

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 3Jelly Jul 28 2017, 09:43 AM
The more I think about it the more this spells doom for Orks. As Guru said on the official forums the waaagh tower cost + power income changes are fine on their own but not together. WAAAGH towers will become absolutely unexpendable and building forward towers will not be worth the risk. Compound that with the speed nerf and WAAAGHS will influence far less of the map than they did.

We'll lose map control, we'll develop tech slower than other factions (375/255 for t2, 625/425 t3), and with no squigs/long range rokkits to crutch us our pitifully weak lategame will come forward. Big Trakks and Deff Dreds have always been inferior units, but the stormboyz/nobz openings were allowing them to come out much earlier than their equivalents.

I've been advocating for small Ork nerfs for a long time now but this is too much.

This post has been edited by Jelly: Jul 28 2017, 09:55 AM

Posts: 269

Game: Dawn of War 3


+
# 4-Netput Jul 28 2017, 13:15 PM
RIP Orks sad.gif :'(


Posts: 23,856

Clan: Prisoners Of War

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 5HARRYY Jul 28 2017, 15:21 PM
yep, serious doublr/tripple nerfs to ork inc.

T1 doctrines will be more common as well (esp 1v1)

Posts: 6,138

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 6Dullahan Jul 28 2017, 17:50 PM
I don't understand why they would increase the cost of Ork tech significantly while also nerfing power aquisition rate. They've reduced power income by 25% and then increased Waaagh tower cost by 13% (power). That's before we talk about the extra req burden for gens and waaagh towers, which will absolutely make a difference.

I like how they moved some of the bonuses from Waaagh to longa waaagh and made it more expensive. As it was before it was a complete no brainer upgrade. Overall the Ork changes are okay by themselves.

The power changes are just bad. It actually gives Eldar a massive advantage because it allows them to be the only race that can realistically win the game by building a massive T1 army. (Thanks to reapers/spectres) Orks or SM are reliant on stuff like power swords, lascannons and Tankbusta's to take on the turret which are now behind a super delayed T2.

Calling it now, Eldar dominant metagame focused on spamming out upgraded infantry (dark reapers + spectres maybe) and going for early turret kills.

The other problem with increasing the amount of generators you effectively need to tech is that it will make the game snowball even harder as one side gains more map control.




Also shit like this
QUOTE
Vehicle Shield upgrade bonus to Vehicles increased from 25 to 50%
Note: Wraithguard and Wraithblade will continue to get 25%


Is just going to add confusion to what upgrades do.

Same deal with base structures being affected by vehicle armour but not specific buildings.

Get this stupid arbitrary bullshit out of here Relic before you bog down your clean game with the same shit that mired DoW2 and CoH2.


The buffs ro Ronahn are awesome though.

This post has been edited by Dullahan: Jul 28 2017, 18:00 PM

Posts: 15,365

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 7HARRYY Jul 28 2017, 18:34 PM
TBH I think this Needs an extra Topic in General Discussions. People might not come here, they're more used to check the General Discussion Forum instead.

I reckon there are more People that are interested in the discussion







btw. Dullahan, Eldar is stronger than People believe RIGHT NOW and eldar playing Long&strong T1 is so hard to Counter already. With the tweaks theyre the most fearsome.

As always: Eldar is hard to Balance, either UP or OP. and esp. OP in Hands of experts.




QUOTE(Dullahan @ Jul 28 2017, 17:50 PM) *



Also shit like this


Is just going to add confusion to what upgrades do.

Same deal with base structures being affected by vehicle armour but not specific buildings.

Get this stupid arbitrary bullshit out of here Relic before you bog down your clean game with the same shit that mired DoW2 and CoH2.
yeah, completely agree. nothing to add here.







This post has been edited by HARRYY: Jul 28 2017, 18:38 PM

Posts: 6,138

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 8Dullahan Jul 28 2017, 18:51 PM
QUOTE(Jelly @ Jul 28 2017, 02:43 AM) *

we'll develop tech slower than other factions (375/255 for t2, 625/425 t3


Waaagh towers can be built from scrap though, which is a strategy I suspect people will more consciously employ.

Of course you can't do this until you have a Mek shop, but it does make reaching Waaagh level 4 and 5 a breeze. The only reason to not build 4 and 5 from scrap is if you need specific positioning or you're planning on skipping mek shop entirely for a fast Roks/t3 infantry upgrades. Especially if you reach Phase 3 beforehand and can build them easily in your base.

Posts: 15,365

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 9Jelly Jul 28 2017, 19:04 PM
QUOTE(Dullahan @ Jul 28 2017, 13:51 PM) *

Waaagh towers can be built from scrap though, which is a strategy I suspect people will more consciously employ.

Of course you can't do this until you have a Mek shop, but it does make reaching Waaagh level 4 and 5 a breeze. The only reason to not build 4 and 5 from scrap is if you need specific positioning or you're planning on skipping mek shop entirely for a fast Roks/t3 infantry upgrades. Especially if you reach Phase 3 beforehand and can build them easily in your base.


True but the patch deals massive damage to our early game. Our map presence will suffer tremendously and I don't have much faith in our late-game without the squig/rokkit gimmicks. In essence we can either play extremely risky with a forward base and lose early, or turtle and lose late. Pick your poison.

Posts: 269

Game: Dawn of War 3


+
# 10Bigamo Jul 28 2017, 20:40 PM
Power income FROM GENERATORS was reduced by 20% (not 25%)

Its the way the game is designed, the escalation phases are supposed to be closer to the tier upogrades... 6 minutes t2 and 13 or 14 minutes t3 wasn't doing so, game seems way more interesting with those changes.

Posts: 2,377

Game: Soulstorm


+
# 11Bigamo Jul 28 2017, 20:59 PM
QUOTE(Jelly @ Jul 28 2017, 16:04 PM) *

True but the patch deals massive damage to our early game. Our map presence will suffer tremendously and I don't have much faith in our late-game without the squig/rokkit gimmicks. In essence we can either play extremely risky with a forward base and lose early, or turtle and lose late. Pick your poison.


Ork Late game is EXTREMELLY powerfull, orks are kind of like sm, with 3-3 upgrades ork infantry fares GREAT, and the ork artilhary is a pain in the ass, other than that orks skill have by far the best 9 point elites.

Posts: 2,377

Game: Soulstorm


+
# 12Dullahan Jul 28 2017, 21:51 PM
QUOTE(Bigamo @ Jul 28 2017, 13:59 PM) *

Ork Late game is EXTREMELLY powerfull, orks are kind of like sm, with 3-3 upgrades ork infantry fares GREAT, and the ork artilhary is a pain in the ass, other than that orks skill have by far the best 9 point elites.



Everyone is extremely powerful in the late game. It's just people don't use the mechanics to their advantage.

Orks have scrap to build units half price, in the field from the wrecks of their enemies. Eldar has invincible wraith units with soul recall and webway networks, SM has drop pods to place heavy units right into the fight.


SM's late game strengths are just obviously intuitive. Ork and Eldar require more utilization of specific faction mechanics.

Posts: 15,365

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 13VindicareX Jul 28 2017, 22:58 PM
Ya maybe Bhuric will finally lose a tournament game as Orkz.

But really - the whole point of WAAAGH tower nerfs is to make Orkz actually invest/work for map control rather than controlling half the map - this is a very different form of teching than Eldar/SM.

IDK when the last time you faced 3 chain WAAAGH charges (all before the 6 min mark), but that shit is so freakin hard to fight that I end up turtling next to my turret just to have a chance (and even then I sometimes lose if my guys are even slightly out of position). You think I want to build sniper scouts and have them sit behind my shield gen for 10 minutes? Against SM/Eldar, I have no problems being pro-active on the map, but even slightly pushing out vs Orkz is death... The difference between fighting SM/Eldar and fighting Orkz is night and day.

I learned after many, many trials of trying to be aggressive vs. Ork early game that it's almost suicide - so when smart and very good players like Bhuric play Orkz, the game becomes really hard really fast.

Orkz can #Adapt - just like Eldar (who are far from being "useless" or underpowered - despite common belief).

This post has been edited by VindicareX: Jul 29 2017, 04:27 AM

Posts: 1,925

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 14GuruSkippy Jul 29 2017, 06:49 AM
I'm fine with the waaagh tower new power cost.
The new req cost is insane though.

Especially in combination with the new power generators costing waaaaay more req, and new power lower income.

125/85 is an overnerf. 85/85 would have been ok



For everyone information, at 75 power, you can start building your first waaagh tower at 24 seconds in game.
After patch, it will be at 48 seconds. With 30 seconds of build time.
That's an other huge nerf : it delays the loota build, it delays the first scrap wich is sooo important early, and last but not least, it make the first waaagh tower buildable when you meet your opponent's army.

Remember when TSMs with tireless came into ork forward base, then a 2d TSM just came from drop pod before we built the waaagh tower ?
First drop pod with TSM in can be ready at 40sec... before the first waaagh tower even starts to be build in new patch...

yeah yeah, #adapt, place your first tower carefully, etc etc
But I'm not the one saying orks need a forward base with defenses, because they bleed more than others, Relic did.
And it's obvious that the 60 power at the start of the game was made for orks, so they could build a waaagh tower as soon as first gretchin reach a forward position.

This post has been edited by GuruSkippy: Jul 29 2017, 06:57 AM

Posts: 2,055

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 15Dullahan Jul 29 2017, 12:59 PM
QUOTE(VindicareX @ Jul 28 2017, 15:58 PM) *

Ya maybe Bhuric will finally lose a tournament game as Orkz.

But really - the whole point of WAAAGH tower nerfs is to make Orkz actually invest/work for map control rather than controlling half the map - this is a very different form of teching than Eldar/SM.

IDK when the last time you faced 3 chain WAAAGH charges (all before the 6 min mark), but that shit is so freakin hard to fight that I end up turtling next to my turret just to have a chance (and even then I sometimes lose if my guys are even slightly out of position). You think I want to build sniper scouts and have them sit behind my shield gen for 10 minutes? Against SM/Eldar, I have no problems being pro-active on the map, but even slightly pushing out vs Orkz is death... The difference between fighting SM/Eldar and fighting Orkz is night and day.

I learned after many, many trials of trying to be aggressive vs. Ork early game that it's almost suicide - so when smart and very good players like Bhuric play Orkz, the game becomes really hard really fast.

Orkz can #Adapt - just like Eldar (who are far from being "useless" or underpowered - despite common belief).


The ork changes don't bother me, it's the economy changes I dislike. (Which affects everyone) The ork changes are fine, although I think Ork early game is going to suffer more than anything else with the delayed first tower. Just means I think we're going to see that starting power go to generators first before a waaagh tower and pumping out Boyz and Shootas.

That said, of course fighting Orks is very different. Orks is about setting the tempo of the fighting with waaagh. Catch an Ork off-step (like mid waaagh channel) and it's very easy to pop the tower and throw off his rhythm. Likewise, baiting a defensive waaagh and then retreating can force him to use an ability with a 5 minute cooldown unnecessarily.

Posts: 15,365

Game: Dawn of War 2


+
# 16Paranoid Kamikaze Jul 30 2017, 18:24 PM
I like the Scout changes. I use them for their stun grenades and gen harass. Not having to build 3 to take down a gen quick enough would be nice. Don't want to waste a Doctrine slot for it.

Posts: 8,697

Game: Dawn of War 2


+

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)