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Bozic Destruction v4 - Dominator attempts map editing!

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# 1-DoMiNaToR- Nov 25 2020, 17:19 PM
yo, so i thought about trying to improve some maps myself rather than always asking others to do it. Thought i'd try on one of the least played maps which is Bozic Destruction. I made some changes from v3 and named the new one v4. Is this a relax map btw? do you mind me editing it like this to see if we can get it played more?

Changes I made for v4 are as follows:

- 2nd supp added in your base (5 crates near side entrance)
- Added 2 extra safe oils to make those towns actually of some use
- Moved location of right side oil to more safe spot and moved the little hut to protect it (like left oil has)
- Widened ramp on top right side to make it more like bottom left entrance
- Reduced number of crates in middle to compensate for the extra money and oil already added
- Moved crates in middle closer to your base (3 safer crates for each player to take and protect)
- Fixed height under existing oil and refinery on top left as it had a big gap under these buildings before
- Adjusted building locations a bit in bottom right to make room for new oil
- Removed a few fences from bottom right for balance reasons (allow GLA worker to go in the town)


What do you think? any other changes to make? have I named the map correctly or does it need changing somewhere else inside worldbuilder too?

this didn't take long to do at all so if it's a success i might work on some others.

Attached File _RANK__Bozic_Destruction_ZH_v4.rar
Size: 145.57k
Number of downloads: 1004


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# 2FiRe^ArM Nov 25 2020, 18:27 PM
I saw some imbalance in the maps.
-Second and Third Supply are closer for Player 2 (not much Approx 100ft) but Player 1 cc faces other side + 100ft far is bit too much.
- Oils for Player 2 are too far (Approx 1200 and 1400 ft from CC for Player 2 and Approx 1100 for Player 1. Its bit too much).

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# 3-DoMiNaToR- Nov 25 2020, 19:12 PM
QUOTE(FiRe^ArM @ Nov 25 2020, 19:27 PM) *

I saw some imbalance in the maps.
-Second and Third Supply are closer for Player 2 (not much Approx 100ft) but Player 1 cc faces other side + 100ft far is bit too much.
- Oils for Player 2 are too far (Approx 1200 and 1400 ft from CC for Player 2 and Approx 1100 for Player 1. Its bit too much).


Map is not symmetrical so need to also take into account the top player can defend his oil easier as smaller choke point.

So need to weigh up pros and cons of both spots

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# 4Specovik Nov 25 2020, 19:38 PM
lol, Domi just read my mind laugh.gif

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# 5-Prokilla' Nov 25 2020, 19:44 PM
@Dominator ..Now you're into map making ?.. Where do you find the time an energy dude 🤔
I would love to see a map you've made. I bet it's gonna be killer & if you added that techno music to it. 🤘✌

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# 6Moliere Nov 25 2020, 19:45 PM
Much better than the original version.

Wouldn't pick it, but wouldn't hate my opponent picking it at least.

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# 7Logica Nov 26 2020, 03:45 AM
oils on the bottom are closer to the bottom spot compared to the top spot. If the oils are balaned, i think this could be a very nice map.

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# 8ROLL Nov 26 2020, 06:57 AM
i dont like this map at all but this version has something diffrent , tbh i liked it too much thanks for the great job Domi but there is one thing that must be changed and the map will be 100% completed ,
just one of the tow bottom oils rise it up a little bit (for his same old place in version 3).

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# 9StaZzzz Nov 26 2020, 09:55 AM
I absolutely don't like this version. Why are you trying to make another TD map? Trying to fit two supplys everywhere? The main feature of this map is the presence of only one resource dock on the base, so many strategies change.

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# 10StaZzzz Nov 26 2020, 10:06 AM
btw Domi, didn't you write earlier that need to stop adding boxes instead of a second resource dock? Another buff for USA and nerf for China...

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# 11Specovik Nov 26 2020, 10:09 AM
QUOTE(StaZzzz @ Nov 26 2020, 12:55 PM) *

The main feature of this map is the presence of only one resource dock on the base, so many strategies change.

no - this is the main disadvantage of this map. only 1 dock on the main and only 1 dock in the center of the (small) map.

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# 12-DoMiNaToR- Nov 26 2020, 10:52 AM
QUOTE(StaZzzz @ Nov 26 2020, 11:06 AM) *

btw Domi, didn't you write earlier that need to stop adding boxes instead of a second resource dock? Another buff for USA and nerf for China...



True that. Only reason I added crates was because they were already in the middle and I didnít want to add a 30k dock in the base, it would change it too much.

With regard to changing it to like TD. I agree we need variety but this is considered by many as one of the worst maps and as such never really played. Generally whoever gets the middle supply usually wins especially if they deny one oil cap too. No fun in that for me. I prefer 2 safe supps. Nobody likes a forced no eco.

@logica thanks! I will fix bottom right oils

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# 13StaZzzz Nov 26 2020, 11:44 AM
is it really impossible to make a good map with a single resource dock?

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# 14-ExiLe` Nov 26 2020, 12:25 PM
Haven’t checked your version yet, but here another approach in fixing the balance while keeping 1 base supply:

It’s quite simple really, put 2 oils on each side. Why? Because 2 oils is the same as 1 supply and a good opponent doesn’t let get 2 sides that easy. So if you only get 1 oil you’re at disadvantage vs the opponent who goes for the supply (depends on matchup ofcourse) and you can’t stop it because getting control over 3 keypoints at the same time is completely out of the question. Another solution would be adding 1 base oil instead.

Maybe another interesting thing would be to add 1 slightly damaged garrison on each side of the middle supply. It would give gla some sort of chance of going for mid aswell (shouldn’t be too easy, hence damaged). Currently it’s entirely impossible vs truck and dozer rushes. Just provides some strategic variety.

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# 15-DoMiNaToR- Nov 26 2020, 13:46 PM
QUOTE(StaZzzz @ Nov 26 2020, 12:44 PM) *

is it really impossible to make a good map with a single resource dock?


i dont know man, if we all really knew the exact formula to make a perfect map then every map would be perfect.

What I can tell you though is that the most popular maps are TD, Lagoon, Snowy Drought (historically anyway). And they all have the following:

1. Two safe supps
2. 1 oil each
3. Middle expansion available.

And what i can tell you about shit maps (never really played):

1. Bozic Destruction
2. Dust Devil
3. Desert Fury
4. Flash Fire
5. Winter Wolf original

And guess what they all have in common? One safe supply only!

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# 16-DoMiNaToR- Nov 26 2020, 13:51 PM
QUOTE(Logica @ Nov 26 2020, 04:45 AM) *

oils on the bottom are closer to the bottom spot compared to the top spot. If the oils are balaned, i think this could be a very nice map.



thanks for the feedback!

i just spent 40min in worldbuilder trying to come up with solution, removing the water bottom right, adding new buildings etc and ended up wrecking the map.

I decided that the top left oils look like they are easier to defend, the top left choke point is very narrow compared to bottom right, and also with more buildings i think they can be bunkered very easy. I suspect bottom right oils might die more easy which i think balances it slightly that they are closer to the base.

I did try simply moving the oils further away from bottom spot as much as possible and also moving top left oil closer to other guys base but i keep thinking the top left will just become so hard to break. I also would have to make v4 or v5 again and i see 110 people already downloaded it so if i made another v4 it risks a MM with people that dont update to the new one....

long story short i think we can try and see some games on this map and see how it plays out. With random reverse in almost every rule set nowadays it should be perfectly balanced anyway!

if anyone wants to keep amending it and make v5 feel free. I got bored in world builder on this map now. My goal was to make it like +50% better which i think is more or less done.

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# 17Logica Nov 26 2020, 14:29 PM
QUOTE(-DoMiNaToR- @ Nov 26 2020, 14:51 PM) *

thanks for the feedback!

i just spent 40min in worldbuilder trying to come up with solution, removing the water bottom right, adding new buildings etc and ended up wrecking the map.

I decided that the top left oils look like they are easier to defend, the top left choke point is very narrow compared to bottom right, and also with more buildings i think they can be bunkered very easy. I suspect bottom right oils might die more easy which i think balances it slightly that they are closer to the base.

I did try simply moving the oils further away from bottom spot as much as possible and also moving top left oil closer to other guys base but i keep thinking the top left will just become so hard to break. I also would have to make v4 or v5 again and i see 110 people already downloaded it so if i made another v4 it risks a MM with people that dont update to the new one....

long story short i think we can try and see some games on this map and see how it plays out. With random reverse in almost every rule set nowadays it should be perfectly balanced anyway!

if anyone wants to keep amending it and make v5 feel free. I got bored in world builder on this map now. My goal was to make it like +50% better which i think is more or less done.


Gla puts 2 tunnels at that house just in front of the oils in bottom, u ain't breaking that. Usa could take the bunker n drop a fire base nothing much u can do. The path way is narrow and effectively only one way in. At the top oils there is 3 ways in and the distance from the top spot is longer, will take longer for the top spot to hold it or bunker it.

I think if you only have 2 oils maybe put them in the middle you could have different way of playing that map.

I like this map overall but probably wont play it due to the oils being unfair atm.

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# 18Jundiyy Nov 26 2020, 14:46 PM
Good attempt, some feedback has already been given.
I noticed the middle supplies are a bit closer to the top player.
Oils pos have already been mentioned.
I like the placement for the 2nd supp, blocking the entrance, quite nice. Although maybe slightly more back for both players, since the bottom player can get shot at quite easily (compared to the top player) by a Gatt/Quad if he's a USA and the Vees would need to go quite far back to deny them.
Bottom oils are quite easy to defend now compared to the top. So might need to do something there.

I think the map needs some editing as well (not your fault of course), not just adding and removing things. Otherwise it will be quite hard to balance it as you are experiencing.

Too late now but just as an extra, you said you might do more maps. I would advise on 2 things.
1) Not adding [RANK] just now otherwise players will have a map which they think is ranked but isn't (needs Xezon + ToxicShock to get it ranked, can't just name them). We currently have some already which are not ranked such as
-[RANK] [NMC] Snowy Drought
-[RANK] Stonehenge ZH TEST v2
-[RANK] Forest Lagoon - LEANSIFER EDIT
2) And if you don't want the version to go up just yet, do what many of us do, which is to do add vX/Draft/Test at the end till you come up with the final one. Then as you mentioned above, you don't need to worry about players having transfer problems.

QUOTE
i just spent 40min in worldbuilder trying to come up with solution, removing the water bottom right, adding new buildings etc and ended up wrecking the map.


Welcome smile.gif we've all been through it. Especially when you're happy with the job and want to do something extra...then mess up.
If you really want a headache, try Wasteland Warlords or Killing Fields lol.

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# 19FiRe^ArM Nov 26 2020, 14:53 PM
QUOTE(FiRe^ArM @ Nov 25 2020, 23:57 PM) *

I saw some imbalance in the maps.
-Second and Third Supply are closer for Player 2 (not much Approx 100ft) but Player 1 cc faces other side + 100ft far is bit too much.
- Oils for Player 2 are too far (Approx 1200 and 1400 ft from CC for Player 2 and Approx 1100 for Player 1. Its bit too much).



QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Nov 26 2020, 20:16 PM) *

I noticed the middle supplies are a bit closer to the top player.
Oils pos have already been mentioned.

Is my post invisible to all?

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# 20StaZzzz Nov 26 2020, 14:57 PM
QUOTE(-DoMiNaToR- @ Nov 26 2020, 16:46 PM) *

i dont know man, if we all really knew the exact formula to make a perfect map then every map would be perfect.

What I can tell you though is that the most popular maps are TD, Lagoon, Snowy Drought (historically anyway). And they all have the following:

1. Two safe supps
2. 1 oil each
3. Middle expansion available.

And what i can tell you about shit maps (never really played):

1. Bozic Destruction
2. Dust Devil
3. Desert Fury
4. Flash Fire
5. Winter Wolf original

And guess what they all have in common? One safe supply only!


Almost all the maps you have listed are standard and almost no one plays on them. I agree that 2 supply is better and more balanced, but:

1) The number of [RANK] maps with one supply is very small, and since most do not like Bozic, they will be happy to play after it on other normal cards again. Yes, and they take it at tournaments very rarely. So we're just taking away a little bit of original gameplay

2) One of the cards that can be played through one supply is the Sand Scorpion (I mean the [RANK] version). Moreover, there is also variability. You can build a second one at any time. Of course, GLA on it feel better than other factions, but I think this can be balanced by removing some neutral buildings, as well as lowering their health (so that the workers could not go there).

I understand that in a game that hasn't been updated in 17 years, it's hard to come up with something new, because of this, the players here are quite conservative. But we have a great and big community, and we also have a lot of cool and hard-working map makers who come up with more and more interesting maps every year. And it's hard for me to imagine that it's impossible can't make a map with a single resource dock on the base and that everyone would like it. Although, as they say - everything is in your hands.

P.S. I love how Jundiyy tries to bring something new to the game (SDZ for example). Maybe the cards with them are not very popular, but they add the same freshness to the game, new ideas, etc.

This post has been edited by StaZzzz: Nov 26 2020, 15:14 PM

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