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Dawn of War 3

DoW3 Salt?

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# 1Estalibar Apr 19 2017, 09:51 AM
So I've been looking around at youtube videos and etc. on DoW3 and I've been seen a lot of people hate on the new approach to the Multiplayer game mode. Someone help me understand why there is so much hate for it, because I personally like the new direction they are going with it. What are the gamereplays thoughts on it?

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Game: Dawn of War 3


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# 2-Netput Apr 19 2017, 11:18 AM
I think the intention of the shield/turret/core mechanic is to stop rushes from being there. Even if you lose a important first battle, the game isn't over yet. Especially if you consider the Escalation Phases, it makes sense that a squad loss early game isn't the end of the entire game. So on paper, that is all great.

Playing the game isn't theory however. During actual play sessions it often results in players waiting outside a base until they reach a critical mass of units to attack. Player A has the entire map, player B can't get out because player A is set up in the right position. So it is a waiting game where player B can do jack shit, player A gets stronger and stronger until they can break the turret. So in the end a game lasts at least 10 minutes longer then it should be because of a darn turret.

So yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing a huge nerf to the turret. It should be as strong that it provides help during early game. It shouldn't be so strong that it fully stops a full early game/early mid game army.


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# 3Paranoid Kamikaze Apr 19 2017, 18:01 PM
The new mode is meant to delay super early pushes by giving you a safe fallback position and not make the game an instant stomp after a mistake.

People who haven't been able to play the game don't like it because they don't know what it's for and think it makes the game a MOBA. People who have played the game and don't like it is because they never realized that turrets are heavy armour and they're using regular units to hit it laugh.gif A few Lascannons or other anti-vehicle squads can take it down extremely quickly. You can also completely avoid the turrets damage by having a single unit grab the turrets attention while the rest of your army moves in. The problem is that players who are winning and don't know that or don't care just spend a lot of time amassing a large army which prolongs the game. The concede button is meant to be used in situations like that where your opponent is toying with you.

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Game: Dawn of War 2


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# 4Gorb Apr 19 2017, 20:11 PM
The turrets do go down exceptionally quickly, but I do wonder (along Netput's line of thought) if they made the turrets start weaker, but scale with Escalation Level? Thematic (power grids warming up or whatever people want to justify it by) and more of an end-game helpful than being sniped by four squads of Shadow Spectres!

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Game: Dawn of War 2


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# 5Bolivar687 Apr 19 2017, 23:29 PM
I don't want to downplay the community management but I feel very large swaths of fans for this game have been excluded by Relic throughout its development, so it's bred a lot of resentment for the game, some justifiably so. LKHero mentioned early on that this seems like they did not consult with competitive players at all. The Warhammer community hasn't been engaged and they feel a lot of the lore choices (Gabriel leaping in Terminator armor) goes against what Warhammer 40k is all about. The Relic pros who have been very active in DoW and CoH games in the past were completely overlooked for the closed betas. And the closed beta testers who provided a lot of feedback weren't invited to the closed influencer beta two weeks ago. All the while, the people on the official forums actively talking about the game haven't had a spot either. And there's been little engagement from the design team on the forums, only a couple replies here and there from the community manager.

In short, just about every group who could have been instrumental in evangelizing about the game has a reason to feel left out.

QUOTE(Gorb @ Apr 19 2017, 20:11 PM) *

The turrets do go down exceptionally quickly, but I do wonder (along Netput's line of thought) if they made the turrets start weaker, but scale with Escalation Level? Thematic (power grids warming up or whatever people want to justify it by) and more of an end-game helpful than being sniped by four squads of Shadow Spectres!


Objective structures (shield generators, turrets, power core) and listening posts all gain extra HP with each escalation phase. I've read other plays saying that the turret range and power also gets stronger.

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# 6Paranoid Kamikaze Apr 19 2017, 23:48 PM
The last beta was a new group of people who had signed up from the same signup the last group did. Influencers just got guaranteed slots.

Turret gains more health and firepower with escalation. It doesn't increase in range. I guess the damage is only listed on the turret tooltip and not on the escalation tooltip.

QUOTE
Turret
Team Structure/Detector
Turrets defend your Power Core and gain more health and firepower as the escalation level increases. They are made invulnerable by the corresponding Shield Generator and when it is destroyed the Turret can be destroyed. When all of your Turrets are functioning the Power Core is invulnerable. When one Turret is destroyed the Power Core is vulnerable to attack.

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Game: Dawn of War 2


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# 7Dullahan Apr 20 2017, 03:27 AM
QUOTE(Paranoid Kamikaze @ Apr 19 2017, 11:01 AM) *

The new mode is meant to delay super early pushes by giving you a safe fallback position and not make the game an instant stomp after a mistake.

People who haven't been able to play the game don't like it because they don't know what it's for and think it makes the game a MOBA. People who have played the game and don't like it is because they never realized that turrets are heavy armour and they're using regular units to hit it laugh.gif A few Lascannons or other anti-vehicle squads can take it down extremely quickly. You can also completely avoid the turrets damage by having a single unit grab the turrets attention while the rest of your army moves in. The problem is that players who are winning and don't know that or don't care just spend a lot of time amassing a large army which prolongs the game. The concede button is meant to be used in situations like that where your opponent is toying with you.


I just wish there was a point to attacking the base other than trying to kill the power core.

Killing the HQ does nothing and it even seems to respawn on its own. And most people are building their production buildings in the field anyway.

The only potential for harassment I can see is killing builders. But then builders are dirt cheap to build so it's not even really worth it unless they're in the middle of building something when you kill them.




Posts: 15,317

Game: Dawn of War 2


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# 8Dullahan Apr 20 2017, 03:39 AM
QUOTE(Bolivar687 @ Apr 19 2017, 16:29 PM) *

The Relic pros who have been very active in DoW and CoH games in the past were completely overlooked for the closed betas.



imo both DoW2 and CoH2 underwent a lot of negative changes once Relic's real game designers moved onto other projects and the community became effectively in charge of balancing. CoH2 has been completely ruined by the community and Elite mod has devolved considerably over the years from its heyday in 2012.

They clearly have a unique vision for DoW3 and it's something these sorts of people would have a whole lot to say about despite a very limited understanding of why things were done the way they were done. Quite frankly, I think no one can provide any sort of valuable game design feedback to Relic right now. Just kneejerk reactions and comparisons to other games.

Posts: 15,317

Game: Dawn of War 2


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# 9ForexKid Apr 20 2017, 07:58 AM
QUOTE(-Netput @ Apr 19 2017, 03:18 AM) *

I think the intention of the shield/turret/core mechanic is to stop rushes from being there. Even if you lose a important first battle, the game isn't over yet. Especially if you consider the Escalation Phases, it makes sense that a squad loss early game isn't the end of the entire game. So on paper, that is all great.

Playing the game isn't theory however. During actual play sessions it often results in players waiting outside a base until they reach a critical mass of units to attack. Player A has the entire map, player B can't get out because player A is set up in the right position. So it is a waiting game where player B can do jack shit, player A gets stronger and stronger until they can break the turret. So in the end a game lasts at least 10 minutes longer then it should be because of a darn turret.

So yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing a huge nerf to the turret. It should be as strong that it provides help during early game. It shouldn't be so strong that it fully stops a full early game/early mid game army.


ya i agree, in my games if i killed squads early, it didn't mean i won the game right away but i can almost guarantee the win by map control and closing them in, so ya you don't necessarily lose if your early squads die but eventually you will lose anyways if the player knows how to take advantage. Even if the turrets weren't nerfed i see can see at high level play losing even 1 squad early to be devastating still.

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# 10ThorstenTA Apr 20 2017, 14:59 PM
Hey guys!

I hope you can help me! I'm just a freakn poor student and wanna play this game so hardly!!!!
Looking for a good alternativ and found these keyshops. Do you know this one? I really wanna buy my Dawn of War 3 Key.
Heeeeeelp

Posts: 1


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# 11-Netput Apr 20 2017, 17:03 PM
I don't know that keyshop. G2A and kinguin are known sites, although they work in the grey market. So I won't advise you to buy there.

In roughly a hour however there is a livestream: https://www.twitch.tv/relicentertainment
You can win a key there! biggrin.gif


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# 12Spell Apr 21 2017, 09:43 AM
So basically the game is mostly about camping till you have a army powerful enough to kill the enemy power reactor? that doesn't sound very rewarding.

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Game: Dawn of War 3


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# 13Estalibar Apr 21 2017, 11:22 AM
QUOTE(Spell @ Apr 21 2017, 03:43 AM) *

So basically the game is mostly about camping till you have a army powerful enough to kill the enemy power reactor? that doesn't sound very rewarding.


More like a tug of war for Resource points. Not really like SC2 where you can just Macro up. It still retains the playstyle from CoH/DoW1. Just with more elements thrown in, and no cover system really. I think the way the game paces and plays is great imo.

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Game: Dawn of War 3


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# 14-Netput Apr 21 2017, 15:39 PM
QUOTE(Spell @ Apr 21 2017, 11:43 AM) *

So basically the game is mostly about camping till you have a army powerful enough to kill the enemy power reactor? that doesn't sound very rewarding.

Isn't hiding in your Scrin corner is the typical way of how you play? It was how you won vs me in Rotterdam! ph34r.gif


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# 15Gorb Apr 21 2017, 15:55 PM
Obligatory: Stormriders are the worst unit ever.

. . . I have bad memories of the Scrin back when I used to play CnC3, okay?

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Game: Dawn of War 2


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# 16Spell Apr 21 2017, 18:21 PM
QUOTE(-Netput @ Apr 21 2017, 17:39 PM) *

Isn't hiding in your Scrin corner is the typical way of how you play? It was how you won vs me in Rotterdam! ph34r.gif


I actually remember building a mothership that game since I thought it was over anyway.
Still won the game after that, guess the skill cap mattered.... tongue.gif.

got into the open beta, when can we fight our epic battle?
Just won my first orc game, both of us were obviously clueless biggrin.gif

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# 17-Netput Apr 21 2017, 18:25 PM
Playing right now!

Add me: -removed-


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# 18Spell Apr 21 2017, 18:26 PM
added, I'll be back later <3

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Game: Dawn of War 3


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# 19Zane. Apr 22 2017, 09:35 AM
I'm growing more fond of it the more games I play. It's much closer to DoW vanilla than anticipated.

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Game: Dawn of War 3


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# 20Benoslav Apr 22 2017, 10:25 AM
I'm liking the game aswell. It might be bias, cause Ive won all my games so far biggrin.gif, still, it's a sign that experience with the previous games does help a lot.

On a side note, I have noticed that many players do actually think that the game is about sitting in the corner and waiting for the end game elites to do some plays. I however found that you can easily push the shield gens and/or the 'natural' resource points (the ones right under the enemy base) as soon as you get any kind of AT unit - Ironmaw for the win in this scenario. Constant agression and harassment is the way to go imo. To bad we only got one map to play with, but so far so good, Im just a bit annoyed about the persistent leveling of elites.

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