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# 1SN0WBL4CK Mar 8 2018, 02:14 AM
So i have a couple of questions about the game math (idk what better term to use for it). I decided to make a new topic because i was asking those questions under replays etc.

1. Is there a difference between crebain and bats?

2. If u use crebain on a unit with rc. does it undo the rc completely and make the unit have original dmg(no RC) but less armor or does it go below original dmg(no RC -...%dmg)? Also what does it do to units on land? It cancels land completely or goes even beyond that?

3. How much does crebain debuff units percentage wise? lets assume that a unit with no bonuses(rc,leadership , land) has 0% dmg and 0% armor. How much does crebain actually take away? 25% in both? making it -25% dmg and -25% armor? More? less?

4. Does it (crebain) affect heroes?

5. Do warchant and RC stack? (asking because warchant is +40% dmg and RC +50%) Lets say its a 2v2 one is isengard and other is men(on the same team) men uses rc on his units first(getting 50% dmg bonus) isengard player uses warchant on the same unit. Will that unit have 75% dmg and 10% extra speed? will the unit keep the RC and warchant does nothing or will the unit take the best from both? keep 50% dmg and gain 10% speed?

6. How will warchant work on a unit who is near a hero whos leadership gives 50% dmg bonus?(boro for example)

7. How much difference do stance make percentage wise? lets say neutral is 0% what would agressive stance do ? Like +10% dmg and -10% armor? Also is the loss of armor as high as the gain in dmg(in case of agressive stance) and vice versa(in case of defensive)?

8. Do stance give/take the same amount of armor/dmg for all units? (speed decrease for archers and heroes excluded).

9. In hold ground stance(defensive stance) heroes and archers are clearly slower. But i have a feeling defensive stance also give a slight decrease in speed to swordsmen,pikes and cav units. Am i imagining things? i feel like i am always getting caught by the same units in agressive stance when running away on defensive.

10. Does cavelry on agressive stance do more dmg than on defensive/neutral? Obviously gobs and archers should be trampled on defensive but what about units who dont die in one go?

11. Does warg howl do more trample dmg? Or doest it only do more dmg when attacking?

12. How much does nazgul reduce armor and dmg with his lvl2 power (dread visage)? Same as crebain or more?

13. What is ''simple'' leadership? And what kind of other types of leadership are there? Description on nazgul lvl 2 power (dread visage) says: Enemy units lose their ''simple leadership''. What does it mean? leadership gained from heroes? or RC, land type of thing?

14. I noticed that destroying a lvl 3 farm vs an easy cpu, gives just as much pp as destroying a level 1 farm. How does the pp system work? What gives more points? killing units or buildings? Or is it different vs a player compared to cpu?

That was it for now, if some1 decides to answer a couple of these i would appreciate it. Just put the number of the question before the answer so i and the rest will know what question is being answered. Also if anyone else has similar questions don's hesitate to ask them here.


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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06


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# 2SeñorEcthelion Mar 8 2018, 06:55 AM
QUOTE(D3ATH^G0D @ Mar 7 2018, 23:14 PM) *

1.no, bats is just a reskin of crebain.

2. crebain completly kills any kind of simple leaderships while bats is there(both land or warchant, or gorkil arwen elf men statue etc) AND also reduces dmg and armor. So a simple bat/crebain, whose cooldown is shorter on val patches can work as a -75% debuffer (by killing 50 leadership and debuffin 25). Althought there's some gay glitch where rallyingcall effect is gone forever, even if bats are killed; this happens if you cast rally over your already-debuffed units.

3. it's known that it's -25 armor -25dmg. ITS KNOWN.

4.it's known it doesnt. only debuff thing that affect heroes is MoS Doubt, wormtongue, and now on 1.09 elf enshoruding mist.

5. only on 1.00. They used to be the same values in 1.6-1.8, but since warchant is not popular we made it better by adding a +10% speed bonus, that was pretty op so we reduced the dmg a bit, (now its 40% indeed). But RC and WC dont stack, only one of the two will remain. Just asume that warchant is same as rally, just different values.
6. one of the two will remain, i don't know which one. probabbly boromir cuz it replenish constantly. (thats how aura leadership works, giving each 2 seconds a bonus of 3 seconds)

7. Numbers are around 25%, Aint giving you the stats now.

8. It's different for swordmen, pikemen, cavalry, heros, archers & machines(machine dont really suffer changes, just lose vision).

9. No speed decrease for swords pikes and cav., just retardness increase. Units might not attack as you wish, sometimes normal stance is better.

10. You mean crushing, according the game files and the very design of 1.5(EA) cavalry crush dmg should be constant, not increasable by leadership, levels. Ofc defensive stance does reduce the crush dmg.

11. (continues from 10.) BUT, god knows why (i will check before next patch) why ACTUALLY warg howl is INDEED affecting wargs. It's ok to happen on 1.06, wargs were the exception to the rule of cav not increasing crush dmg, but bt2dc had hypotetically fixed it...

12. all debuff on this game has always been - 25 -25. only rotwk altered these numbers, here on bt2dc freezing rain is the only special debuff because it also kills High Level leaderships, (aragorn, dain, bombadil, elrond, saruman)

13. I invented that "simple" category for tooltips to refer to all leadership that can be debuffable and are not the High Level leadership mentioned above. I consider simple to taint land, wood, theoden boromir faramir eomer haldir arwen statues (this ones were mentioned already above). BTW, warchant or damage type of things are LEADERSHIP, land or armor type of things are BUFF, the high level leadership is SPELL (this is for .ini categories. buff and leadership are Simple for me, and i call spell High Level)

14. PP system no idea how it exactly works, but i can tell you gain more pp killing stuff with the respective counter. Cav trampling gob archers for example gives you a lot of PP, even if you don't even one-hit them. Swords raping farms gives nic pp, pikes raping farms gives less pp. I think that makes the light star / ring palpitate like ur sister pssy, and if you kill during the palpitation you gain pp super fast. No idea about against CPUs.


I might have confused you a bit with leadership stuff, but it's simple. 1.09 is a bit complex than 1.6 cuz it has few different numbers, like warchant and a lot of exceptions for undebuffable leaderships, like Mighty Rage. But it's the same. Btw, howl doesn't stack with warchant. My tooltip says alwys stack, its wrong.


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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


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# 3DeeZ Daryl Mar 9 2018, 09:13 AM
I like this, cuz i also have no clue about all this.

Also, if crebains/bats are on a unit, lets say it reduces its armor and dmg to -25% each. If u then RC that unit, will it become like standard again, as if nothing was used on the unit? Or will RC completely do nothing?

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# 4Val` Mar 9 2018, 10:30 AM
it wont do anything.


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# 5Fitton Mar 9 2018, 12:58 PM
This sort of stuff needs to be clear and easily accessible. Also easily understandable.

I don't remember half the things I knew about 1.06 and also have probably forgot a lot about 1.09. tongue.gif

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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


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# 6SN0WBL4CK Mar 10 2018, 22:47 PM
QUOTE(Fitton @ Mar 9 2018, 13:58 PM) *

This sort of stuff needs to be clear and easily accessible. Also easily understandable.

I don't remember half the things I knew about 1.06 and also have probably forgot a lot about 1.09. tongue.gif



Yeah it is a pain because i actually never even considered that some of the things dont stack. Like faramir+land, theoden+rc, Boromir+Rc and much much more. If bunito didnt tell me that 75% bonus(armor or dmg) is the maximum, i would never have known. I mean where can some1 read this?

I agree that it should be easily accesable. I would have made the guide myself if i had another computer to run the tests. It is a pain to run the tests vs cpu so maybe in the near future.

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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06


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# 7SeñorEcthelion Mar 11 2018, 09:29 AM
I could make a testing map easily, thats how i tested armor system and felt dissapponted about 75 max (and worst, stances inside that 75 )


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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


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# 8Fitton Mar 11 2018, 09:40 AM
There are many things already known by you and others. This stuff should be posted and stickied in an easily readable format.

The map would be a good back up if people don’t believe and to also test new things.

This post has been edited by Fitton: Mar 11 2018, 10:03 AM

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# 9Val` Mar 11 2018, 12:06 PM
I will start a guide when I have time


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# 10SN0WBL4CK Mar 11 2018, 18:21 PM
QUOTE(SeñorEcthelion @ Mar 11 2018, 10:29 AM) *

I could make a testing map easily, thats how i tested armor system and felt dissapponted about 75 max (and worst, stances inside that 75 )

What do you mean a testing map? What will it allow me to do?

I want to test units vs certain buildings (with all kinds of bonuses and debuffs)
I want to test units vs units (bonuses and debuffs)
Heroes vs units
Heroes vs heroes
Heroes vs buildings

Do you only require a custom map to test it? Or does it require you to have something else? I have no idea how Val tests all those powers but if its something like that sure plz make a map or tell me what software do i need to make my own.

Posts: 563

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06


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# 11SeñorEcthelion Mar 11 2018, 22:56 PM
Val is also pretty nub to test stuff.
Worldbuilder and map.ini allow u to test anything

I had made a archer with 100 dmg and tested vs units with 100 health. Placed the same in 4 different places and gave em differemt leadership armor.
Alone, dain, gimli dain, men statue, etc. Just a matter to use imagination and do whatever u want to have in a map while game is open biggrin.gif


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# 12RanDoM'L0L Mar 12 2018, 16:16 PM
I am about 80 percent sure on 80 percent of the asked questions by Sibel, it would be amazing if someone(Bunito) who has time to google cow picks and jerk off over them(Ecthelion) answered those questions wub.gif xD


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# 13SN0WBL4CK Mar 12 2018, 18:54 PM
QUOTE(RanDoM'L0L @ Mar 12 2018, 17:16 PM) *

I am about 80 percent sure on 80 percent of the asked questions by Sibel, it would be amazing if someone(Bunito) who has time to google cow picks and jerk off over them(Ecthelion) answered those questions wub.gif xD

He answered them. The very first reply on this post. It looks like a quote but its actually the answers.

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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06


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# 14RanDoM'L0L Mar 12 2018, 19:19 PM
I am a blind boy sir, thanks.

Thanks bunito wub.gif ...ur still a jerk-off-to-cow-picks-in-his-free-time boy tho xD


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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06


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# 15SN0WBL4CK Mar 13 2018, 12:21 PM
Got some more questions related to darkness, freezing rain and cloudbreak.


1. What happens if 2 players on opposite teams use darkness power? Will they both gain the effect? or only the one who used it last?

2. What will happen if 2 players on the same team use darkness? will it stack?

3. What will happen if in a 2v2 first one player uses darkness and then his ally uses cloudbreak? Will it cancel out the darkness power of his allly?

4. What if you are playing vs some1 and he uses cloudbreak. What if i use darkness power while his cloudbreak is active. What will happen? will it still cancel my darkness? or will my darkness cancel his cloudbreak because i used it after him?

5. Can darkness and freezing rain be acitve at the same time if 2 players used it on opposite teams?

6. Can darkness and freezing rain be active at the same time if 2 players use it on the same team?

7. How long does darkness and freezing rain last?

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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06


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# 16Val` Mar 13 2018, 12:56 PM
QUOTE(D3ATH^G0D @ Mar 13 2018, 20:21 PM) *

Got some more questions related to darkness, freezing rain and cloudbreak.
1. What happens if 2 players on opposite teams use darkness power? Will they both gain the effect? or only the one who used it last?

Doesnt stack, plus, the most recent cast always undoes the prior weather power before it, so only one can be active at a time.

2. What will happen if 2 players on the same team use darkness? will it stack?

As Above

3. What will happen if in a 2v2 first one player uses darkness and then his ally uses cloudbreak? Will it cancel out the darkness power of his allly?

Yep, cancels his allies darkness.

4. What if you are playing vs some1 and he uses cloudbreak. What if i use darkness power while his cloudbreak is active. What will happen? will it still cancel my darkness? or will my darkness cancel his cloudbreak because i used it after him?

Darkness will overwrite the cloudbreak I believe, regardless of cloudbreaks duration, as all weather powers kill the others. But I havent tested this in so long I forget.

5. Can darkness and freezing rain be acitve at the same time if 2 players used it on opposite teams?

Nope


6. Can darkness and freezing rain be active at the same time if 2 players use it on the same team?

Nope

7. How long does darkness and freezing rain last?


Darkness recharge is 360s

Rain recharge is 450s

Duration of Darkness is 180s

Duration of Rain is 150s

Thats the way I coded it so that Darkness can still have a certain amount of time between weather gaps to be active, otherwise Rain and Cloud just gunna cancel it instantly, dumb. Pretty sure 106 is ultra shit in that regard, ech can confirm timers there.




Having said all that I plan to rework weather so that cancellations dont exist, but its a huge change that we didnt have time for in 109. It will happen eventually tho. I hate weather cancelling weather, its only there because BFME1 was so focused on leadership and EA was too lazy to make a better system for BFME2.

This post has been edited by Val`: Mar 13 2018, 13:41 PM


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# 17Fitton Mar 13 2018, 15:46 PM
Just the other day, a player used Cloudbreak and I instantly used Darkness, my trolls stayed stone for what seemed like the Cloudbreak duration.

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# 18Val` Mar 13 2018, 15:51 PM
I better leave that to Ech, cant take his glory answering all these or he will get mad smilie_naughty.gif smilie_naughty.gif


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# 19RanDoM'L0L Mar 13 2018, 19:04 PM
QUOTE(Val` @ Mar 13 2018, 15:51 PM) *

I better leave that to Ech, cant take his glory answering all these or he will get mad smilie_naughty.gif smilie_naughty.gif

I like your way of saying idk wtf xD


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# 20ArCh4Ng3L Mar 13 2018, 20:15 PM
nubilion.gr


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