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CNC Tiberian Dawn Remastered

How to beat GDI 2 WF allin on small/choky maps as Nod?

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# 1Incia Oct 17 2020, 20:09 PM
On big maps without chokes I think bikes are the best option to snipe key structures. Have won a few. However, on choky maps or small maps where GDI also MOVES their MCV into the middle or very close to the opponent. Guards with grenadiers, and just waits for 6+ medium tanks to steamroll. I yet to find anything that works versus this. Any ideas?

If I get too many flamers out to counter the grenadiers I'm dead, grenadiers are more cost-effective and flamers do nothing versus the medium tanks.
Early airstrip might get sniped by the grenadiers he is originally using for defense. If GDI notice I spend nothing on flamers -> allin grens.

I'm trying to find a solution that counters both gren allins and eventual medium steamroll. I'm out of ideas.

If I go for early MCV snipe they just sell it.
I can sometimes snipe a MCV and one WF, but the dual WF is the problem.

Have anyone tried mass minigunner push versus this? hmm

On bigger maps I have seen a great mass of light tanks/arty seems to work.

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# 2JulzzZ Oct 18 2020, 02:15 AM
You want to build apaches to counter grenadiers, not flame troops. You can build a few flamers to defend then go 2 ref helipad. Once you take care of the infantry, recons absolutely smash meds. You can literally snipe both WF's as they attack and still come back in time to save your base. Build a turret or two for support.


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# 3Incia Oct 18 2020, 10:21 AM
Haven't really experimented much with the helipads. Always just think 1500/3000 is a heavy investment into anti-inf. Well then again 7 flamethrowers are already 1400. So maybe it's alright. I'll keep this in mind, thanks.

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# 4Danku Oct 18 2020, 12:04 PM
Yeah 2 ref apache is the go to for this, apache take a lot of micro though so just be aware - so long as you kill enough infantry with your apache to justify the cost its all good.

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# 5Incia Oct 19 2020, 11:06 AM
Is there a solid Replay out there that demonstrates a Nod win (or GDI win for that matter) versus this dual WF GDI play?
Last stream kinda demonstrated GDI BROKEN, didn't see a single game where Nod beat this. tongue.gif
Just watched AOD Gaming doing this same GDI build and he beat Lunak, even when Lunak did an early apache and even teched to flametanks supported with bikes, so all the right choices, still lost.
Would be nice to see a Replay where Nod actually beats a solid GDI player using this GDI build.

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# 6Danku Oct 19 2020, 16:53 PM
None stick out to me off hand, id have a look at any games of peasy -v- gdi though, I know strelok and twizzy are particularly fond of the build might be some games of them trying it against him

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# 7Danku Oct 20 2020, 15:48 PM
Just uploaded a replay that shows WonnaPlay holding off a 3Ref 2 WF play that might be of interest - https://www.gamereplays.org/cnctiberiandawn...s&id=348453

This post has been edited by Danku: Oct 20 2020, 16:02 PM

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# 8DMraider Oct 20 2020, 21:33 PM
Hey Incia, get enough flamers and apache indeed.

When your WF is up, try to snipe a building with 4/5 bikes and try to fight of the medium tanks. Use good micro with the bikes.

Try to hold off the medium tanks for a while by harassing the GDI and while doing that get more bikes (apache killing infantry meanwhile), then your chances increase of surviving it smile.gif

I mean if the GDI player has 8 medium tanks, it means you can have like 13 bikes. Ok with the apache slightly less, but then you have to fight for survival, get a tank turret up etc.

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# 9Incia Oct 21 2020, 22:38 PM
Rambo has now beat this strategy non-stop on ladder right now, 100% winrate, it's kinda funny. People find a pretty solid GDI build and use it all the time, Rambo casually jumps on ladder once a week and then non-stop farms them.
Air seems to be the key here indeed and sneak attacks.
GDI = orca to snipe tanks, gren micro to beat gren.
Nod = apache to beat grens, bike micro to beat tanks.

smile.gif

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# 10DMraider Oct 22 2020, 17:27 PM
Even without apache, its pretty doable to stop it.

Blacky stopped me twice doing it.

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# 11Incia Oct 22 2020, 19:43 PM
I tried it today and failed. I won once when I did fast buggies to snipe the WF and CY. When I over do helipads they steamroll with the tanks, they did good job on the grenadiers though. hard to learn it when I get top players, I need some noobs to learn the basic micro and then slowly get upwards. When I die the first 5 seconds it isn't really teaching me much. tongue.gif
But I had a fun stream.

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# 12JulzzZ Oct 23 2020, 00:36 AM
Dual WF all-ins are bad and will probably lose 100% of the time to a good player unless they get a building sniped pre-WF.


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