Explore GameReplays...

Battle for Middle Earth 2

Isengard Unleashed

Reply to this topic Start new topic
# 1Darc Reaver May 8 2017, 00:43 AM
IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image


first rework version is live now. As most people have noticed Isengard suffers from a weak core design and thus is a dull faction to play against and with, especially compared to its uniqueness in BFME 1. It fell prey to what I call "faction streamlining" in BFME 2 and the 1.06 patch didn't adress these flaws like it should have done in the first place.

The idea behind this is to make Isengards army scale more (just like the other armies do) while maintaining the theme of their overall gameplay. Which is:

- strong units that get stronger with effective upgrades
- industrial mass production (only "basic" archer, infantry, pikemen, cavalry)
- effective Economy that allows massing units in comparably short periods of time
- powerful abilities that help Uruk Hai against other units by giving damage, speed and armor
- strong heroes that help Isengard armies in the lategame to compete against heroes, Elite units and monsters that other factions field lategame

Aim is to shift Isengard it away from being reskinned Elven Faction with better rushing but worse lategame. The one-click powerpoints and OP hero abilities were reworked and distributed differently, delayed into later game stages or removed altogether.

Isengard in this version has to field a powerful economy to maintain unit production, but also has the ability to protect and get this kind of economy going.

NOTE: This is not meant as a "drastic alteration mod" or something like that. It's meant as an addition to 1.09. I'll support this based off the feedback received and continue working on it.

In case you don't know me - I am Darc Reaver, main gameplay developer from Company of Heroes: Eastern Front mod. I got lead designer after the first Ostheer release and I'm NOT responsible for the OP soviet 1.0 faction. I fixed the techtrees, unit arrangements, faction designs for Ostheer, Soviets and Panzerelite (and hopefully British forces until release).

I've got years of experience in gameplay development and modding games. So I sort of "know stuff" to put it short.

The main differences from vanilla 1.09:

- unit battalion sizes are up to 20 warriors (Wargs 12), units are ~10% slower than before
- Lurtz and Saruman are overall more powerful but arrive later (check the changelog for details)
- Armory and upgrades are more accessible, but upgrades themselves are more expensive without burning forges
- War Chant grants immunity to fear effects and 25% dmg/armour high LD instead of +50% damage/experience and 10% speed bonus
- Siege is overall more accessible
- Wildmen can be trained in the Siege Works (their Flaming Torches require to tech banner carriers). Pillage amount of resources was reduced by 50%
- A couple of PP were switched (see picture below)

NOTE: The tooltips/descriptions are not updated right now, so they still show the default 1.09 game options. Reason is simple: this makes "installation" and switching between vanilla 1.09 and Isengard Unleashed more complicated with little benefit.

I'll provide updated descriptions if the feedback is sufficient for that.

Changes to Powerpoints:

IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image



General Changes
Note: Changes labeled as "italic" mean that those are up to discussion and overall playtesting.

- lumbermills cost decreased to 250 (from 370) to make them pay off in 148s instead of 222s (experimental)
- siege weapon armourtype changed: more vulnerable to slash/crush/cavalry damage and other siege weapons
- non-flyer faction siege weapon health reduced by 33%


Warchant: changed to provide +25% damage/25% armour and 100% resistance to fear/terror, always stacks
Industry: Increased radius to 380 (from 100) to affect 3 Furns with <96% efficiency, lowered bonus to 125% from 300%



- cost to 1100 (from 1800)
- health to 1600 (from 2400)
- resistance to knockback removed
- damage scalar vs. heroes 200%
- Backstab moved to level 4 (from 6)
- Corroded Allegiance moved to level 7 (from 10)

Reasoning: doesn't make any sense to have him at 1800 and not knockbackable. It's not a fighter hero. I'll continue to tweak and adjust venomous words and his other abilities to make him more worthwhile. Right now he's most useful against factions with fragile heroes like Elves or MotW.


- cost to 1100
- health to 2300 (from 2400)
- resistance to knockback removed
- changed armor to mounted hero
- intimidates nearby cavalry
- Maneater moved to level 5 (from 8)
- great hunt adds +25% armour, 10% bonus speed, -50% slowdown, +50% experience

Reason: Pretty simple: a hero that is only ever useful when combined with Warg Riders shouldn't cost 1500 resources. On a faction that needs every spare resource to counter spam and rebuild paper furnaces.
He's simply unattractive from a design point. Every other Cavalry hero from other factions gets something that benefits the faction as a whole: MotW gets global damage leadership/Eomer gives pillage, armour and a weapon against trolls. Arwen has flood. Nazguls have trample + dread visage. The changes make him excel at scaling Isengard cavalry against elite infantry, providing damage, armour and a debuff against other leadership.


- cost to 2000 (from 1100)
- health to 2900 (from 2200)
- resistant to knock back now
- Leadership moved to level 2 (from 5), provides +25% armour, +15% speed, +25% experience
- Carnage moved to level 4, increased duration but lowered damage bonus. Adds 20% armor from 10%
- Pillage moved tro level 5
- Cripple moved to level 7

Reason: Less one trick pony action, more combat performance. Lurtz deals lots of damage, can take quite a beating now. But to compensate he cannot rely on cripple + carnage anymore to get cheap kills or take out some heroes in a matter of seconds.. Overall beneficial to the game, cripple is a stupid ability concept for a level 3-4 ability, just like Carnage.


(rebalanced ability cooldowns/damage to be inbetween Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White)
- cost to 5000 (from 3000)
- health to 3600 (from 2400 - value not set in stone yet. still less than Gandalf though)
- damage 380 (from 250. 50% more than before but still 25% less than Gandalf)
- basic attack knockback range is increased by 5 and the attack deals damage in a 15 area
- switched Fireball and Wizard Blast
- Wizard Blast cooldown 35s (from 45s), requires level 3
- Wizard Blast damage to 650 (from 500)
- Fireball range to 350 (from 320), cooldown 50s (from 66)
- Fireball Area reset to 1.06 values
- bounty value to 1250 (from 1000)

Reason: Lategame powerhouse hero for a faction that does not get elite units. Saruman takes over the role of supporting the army with leadership, anti air, anti siege and area of effect spells. similar to how he did before, but more expensive to avoid the typical "use Devastation -> get saruman at minute 7" gamestyle present in 1.09. This should also help dwarves because the typical "3 musketeers" - Saru,Lurtz,Wormtongue - hero combo takes significantly more resources to get. Allowing Gimli, Gloin and Dain to get more levels without being crippled and killed all the time.


- burning forges upgrade cost to 1600 (from 500), upgrade discount 25/30/35/40/45%
- Excavations building cost reduction to 10/20/30/35/40%

*Uruk Pit
- cost to 300 (from 350) buildtime 25s (from 35s)
- upgrade level 2/3 cost to 150/850, upgradetime to 25s/45s
- level 1 units: Uruk Fighters and Crossbows, level 2 Uruk Pikemen, level 3 Berserkers

- cost to 600 (from 500)
- upgrade level 2/3 cost to 250/250, level 3 gives free banner carriers to Wargs

*Siege Works
- cost to 300 (from 500)
- upgrade level 2/3 cost to 800/500
- level 1 units: Wildmen, level 2: Mines and Siege Ram, level 3: Ballista

- multiple lumbermills grant reduced building costs: 2 mills 10%, 3-4 mills 15%, 5+ mills 20%

- cost reduced to 500, upgrade cost level 2/3 to 500/500 (from 500/1000)

Reason: Cost adjustments to fit the reworked design. Earlier upgrades, better eco expansion, more game starting options.


*Uruk Fighters
- cost to 400 (from 300)
- buildtime to 25s (from 33s)
- Battalion size to 20 warriors (from 15)
- uruk damage to 65 (from 80)
- speed to 53 (from 58)
- tweaked armourtype: SLASH/PIERCE resistance 100/135%(from 100/140%) - upgraded 50/40%, poison resistance -10% (80->90%)
- block formation effects:
- reduces received damage from charging cavalry by 25% and cavalry damage in general
- reduces damage from arrows by 25%

*Uruk Crossbows
- cost to 450
- building speed to 25s (From 35s)
- battalion size to 20 warriors (from 15)
- range to 400 (from 325)
- damage lowered to 55 (overall +20% firepower per barrage)
- lowered rate of fire to 2800ms (from 2000 - rougly 28% less)
- speed to 53 (from 58)

*Uruk Pikemen
- cost to 500
- battalion size to 20 warriors (from 15)
- health to 320 (from 350)
- damage to 35 (from 45)
- UrukPikemen Armourtype - SLASH/PIERCE resistance 240/135% (default pikes 240/115%) (upgraded 96%/90%)

Reason: 20 warriors = 25% more firepower with upgrades. Even if the individual unit damage/damage/armour has been reduced the upgraded units will still receive a major damage boost from the upgrades. Also, larger battalions spread the firepower on more units, helping against single target enemies *coughFlyersCough*.

*Uruk Berserkers
- cost to 500 (from 300)
- health to 750 (from 950)
- damage taken from heroes 50% (from 100%) and ranged hero 25% from 100%
- armourtype tweaked: SLASH/PIERCE resistance 35/65% (from 50/90%) , HERO(ranged) resistance 50%(25%) (from 200%(200)), SPECIALIST to 60% (from 90%) CRUSH from 100% (from 150%), STRUCTURAL damage 40% (from 25%)
- damage to 200 (from 300)
- removed scalar against heroes and cavalry
- Berserkers are affected by War Chant

Reason: Berserkers are meant as Isengard's replacement for heroes and monsters. The buffs in bt2dc went into the wrong direction. Lategame armies mainly consist of pikes and archers. Berserkers in 1.09 are weak to pikes and archers. So even if Berserkers have a high damage output they're too easily countered by the units that they're intended to be used against, even if they have 950 health. To avoid them being OP against Fortresses they do not even scale with abilities like tainted or Warchant. Overall it's just a weird unit concept. Compare a Berserker to a troll. Or 2 Berserkers to a troll or a battalion of Halftrolls or 5 Berserkers to a Mumakil and you'll get what I mean.

In Isengard Unleashed they're actual quite costly power units that can be used in various areas where Isengard lacks the "elite punch" that they need when the enemy starts rolling out monsters or elite units.

- pillage amount reduced by 50%
- burning Torches upgrade requires Banner Carriers upgrade
- reduced health to 340 (from 370), reduced buildtime to 28s (from 32s), cost 200

Reason: Stats tweaks to make them more on par with Soldiers of Gondor..

*Warg Riders
- battalion size to 12 (from 10)
- lowered damage unupgraded/upgraded to 55/105 (from 63/110)
- lowered health to 350 (from 400)
- howl no longer grants bonus damage, instead provides +25% armour and 10% bonus speed

Reason: Wargs are already very strong offensive wise. And 1 hitting mallorn trees/barracks near the forts is lame. Instead they need better maneuverability and better performance against archers. Especially later in the game when they're focus fired by multiple archer units at the same time. The buffs direct them in that way. They're still very good tramplers, and combined with Sharku's leadership (and his cavalry debuff against enemy cavalry) they scale well into the lategame.

- cost to 500 (from 300)
- damage reduced to 3500 (from 5500)
- buildtime 15s (from 22s)
- speed to 47 (from 42)
- mines are more vulnerable to attack damage types of all sorts

[i]Reason: well, never seen mines in a competitive game. Follows the same pattern as other fixes: less one trick pony style. You need to plan ahead and make multiple mines, place them well and use abilities, heroes or units to light the mines up. Seems like a fair trade to me.

- teching cost for Forged Blades: 800 (level 2 Armory)
- teching cost for heavy armour: 1000 (level 2 Armory)
- teching cost for Fire arrows: 800 (level 3 Armory)
- Equipment cost for Blades/armor: 600
- Equipment cost for Fire Arrows: 800
- Equipment cost for Banners: 250
- Burning Forges Fortress upgrade lowers cost by 25% (600-> 480, 800 -> 600, 50 -> 160)

Reason: Costs are not set in stone but I think there should be more of a upfront tradeoff cost for those upgrade techs. Makes burning forges are more drastic choice. Either invest alot of resources upfront to benefit in the long run or pay significantly more for a couple of upgraded units that can be used for a rush.

(changes below are based on the Industry rework and the fact that Fire Stones are just inaccessible in a "normal" match)

*Dwarven Riches
- affects multiple mines (increased area to 380 from 100). Resource bonus to 125% from 300%. Increased duration to 400s from 300s

- Fire Stones are available with Forge level 2 (from level 3)

IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image

Installation instructions:

Update May 12th: I created a rudimentary Switcher for the mod that enables/disables Isengard Unleashed:

Step 1

Download BOTH the files below:

1) Gamedata file from google drive
Download Isengard Unleashed gamedata (400mb)

2) Mod Switcher file:
Attached File Isengard_Unleashed_Start.zip
Size: 444bytes
Number of downloads: 36
Player Name Side Team

Step 2

- Unpack the "Isengard_Unleashed_Start.zip" in your BFME 2 game folder ("C:Program Files(x86)/EA GAMES/Battle for Middle Earth 2"! NOT The "my battle for middle earth 2 files"!)
- Put the __BT2DC-1.09wIsen2c.big in your BFME 2 game folder aswell

Note: Keep all the files in your game folder! Do not move them away in different folders or try splitting them! The switcher only works if all 3 files are in your game folder! Also, do NOT rename the files! Else it will not work.

Step 3

- make sure 1.09 patch is active. Isengard Unleashed will only work with 1.09.
- To activate Isengard Unleashed use the file "__1Activate_Isenmod.bat" -then start BFME 2 and it will be active
- to play normal 1.09 use the file "__1De-Activate_Isenmod.bat"

Note: When you first put in the mod files, use the "__1Activate_Isenmod.bat" to activate the switching process. If you don't do that the game will start with normal 1.09 patch.

Nothing more is required.

Version Support:

Support is given via discord. Message me over there.

Please provide some feedback and have fun testing.

Edit 5/8/17: added some additional comments in the "Changelog" spoiler section to underline why which change was made.

Darc Reaver

Watch list:

This is a list with units/abilities/aspects/strategies that requires stats tweaking for further versions. Based on feedback this list will be adjusted and updated.

Update: May 8th 2017

- Wildmen performance against Orcs/Mordor production buildings with Warchant
- connected to Wildmen: Siegeworks buildtime
- Xbow performance against (Mordor) Trolls (even though trolls already received a damage scalar to prevent xbows from murdering them. Might need more)
- Uruk Warrior performance against Mordor Orcs. Might require some readjusting.
- Uruk Crossbow/Warrior level up experience requirements (exp needed to gain a rank)
- Uruk Crossbow training time (might be too low at the moment, considering the level up for Uruk pit gives + 20/40% speed for level 2/3)
- Armory buildcost
- general War Rider performance (especially in cavalry vs cavalry fights)

This post has been edited by Darc Reaver: May 26 2017, 15:29 PM

Posts: 1,445

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 2Darc Reaver May 26 2017, 13:57 PM
Bump for justice.

Posts: 1,445

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 3RanDoM'L0L May 26 2017, 14:24 PM
I have intentions to try this and tell you how badly you balanced this(jk sir)

Posts: 5,910

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06

# 4Darc Reaver May 26 2017, 15:26 PM
QUOTE(RanDoM'L0L @ May 26 2017, 16:24 PM) *

I have intentions to try this and tell you how badly you balanced this(jk sir)

tongue.gif But itz P-P-PUUURFECT BRAH! Just liek 1.05 on release it was perfectly BALENCE LEL

Without playtesting I can only setup the stats and hope they work out tbh. But feel free to play and giev feedback.

Posts: 1,445

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 5RanDoM'L0L May 26 2017, 16:07 PM
Yh i feel u man, will have more free time in a month basically as im quitting my job smile.gif

Posts: 5,910

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06

# 6Maru May 27 2017, 00:07 AM
QUOTE(RanDoM'L0L @ May 26 2017, 17:07 PM) *
Yh i feel u man, will have more free time in a month basically as im quitting my job smile.gif

Mate, your love for men's penis's is not a job.

Posts: 16,332

Clan: New Generation

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 7RanDoM'L0L May 27 2017, 05:33 AM
Why would u say that

Posts: 5,910

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06

# 8Maru May 27 2017, 09:56 AM
Sorry for telling everyone cry.gif

Posts: 16,332

Clan: New Generation

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 9RanDoM'L0L May 27 2017, 10:35 AM

Posts: 5,910

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06

# 10Darc Reaver Jun 2 2017, 17:32 PM
Lol... I was like "nice, 4 new replies, finally some progress". And now you derail my thread by talking about dongers. Dafuq.

Posts: 1,445

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 11Maru Jun 2 2017, 18:59 PM
Hahaha welcome to the land of many some much,
when the sun doth shine
and the moon doth glow
And the grass doth grow....

....This is not The Greatest Song in the World, no.
This is just a tribute.

Also Isen are imba or something.

Posts: 16,332

Clan: New Generation

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 12RanDoM'L0L Jun 2 2017, 19:48 PM
Dongers are pretty much the best topic.

Isen is fine lel.

Posts: 5,910

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06

# 13Darc Reaver Jun 4 2017, 23:38 PM
QUOTE(RanDoM'L0L @ Jun 2 2017, 21:48 PM) *

Dongers are pretty much the best topic.

Isen is fine lel.

Not really. You can win with them, yes. But apart from that they're unorginal one trick ponies with no identity.

Posts: 1,445

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 14RanDoM'L0L Jun 5 2017, 01:01 AM
I was greatly inclined to say just like your mother but I did not because I am not an asshole wub.gif

Theyre not elves.

Posts: 5,910

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06

# 15Darc Reaver Jun 15 2017, 13:19 PM
bumppp. Also : They play like them and most mechanics and design setups are pretty much the same. Upgrade system, unit setup and unit distribution, fort abilities etc.

Only difference is that Elves do most stuff better, except for eco.

Attached Image

Posts: 1,445

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 16Lord Elrond Jun 16 2017, 03:17 AM
Im so glad you guys put so much effort into keeping this awsome game live and kicking. Id personally wait as long as it takes if this would bring uniqueness to a faction. But when everything is finished it would be nice to bring everything together and integrate it into 1.09 as a single file that can be installed over the 1.06 version of the base game directly with a new patch switcher interface.

Posts: 4

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 17Darc Reaver Jun 17 2017, 22:35 PM
QUOTE(Lord Elrond @ Jun 16 2017, 05:17 AM) *

Im so glad you guys put so much effort into keeping this awsome game live and kicking. Id personally wait as long as it takes if this would bring uniqueness to a faction. But when everything is finished it would be nice to bring everything together and integrate it into 1.09 as a single file that can be installed over the 1.06 version of the base game directly with a new patch switcher interface.

Thanks. I would enjoy the same, but it seems like the dudes over here ignore Isengard Unleashed in its entirety. Which is a shame tbh.

Posts: 1,445

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 18Maru Jun 18 2017, 10:30 AM
Mate I mean this in the nicest way possible, the community on gamreplays always has, and likely always will, value balance over mods. There has never been a modding presence here besides balance patches. It's not that we aren't impressed by the works, it's just we have no desire to play something that isn't balanced.

I mean I don't speak for everyone, but I've been here 10 years and I'm yet to see an unbalanced (for competitive play) mod take off.

Posts: 16,332

Clan: New Generation

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2

# 19RanDoM'L0L Jun 18 2017, 11:20 AM
He thinks it would be balanced I think?

Posts: 5,910

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06

# 20Val` Jun 18 2017, 11:49 AM
Reaver is better off hosting it on revora. It doesnt matter how good a mod is it will get very little interest here.

Posts: 12,872

Clan: Unr3al

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)