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CNC Zero Hour

Question About Composite Armor

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# 1Terminator 88 Jan 23 2019, 13:35 PM
Hi, guys! This game has become my favorite one since the moment I've played for first time. One of my favorite USA units is the Paladin tank. And I have always been curious- why it is stronger than the Crusader tank before Composite armor upgrade and after both units receive it the tide of the fight between them sudden changes. Is this difference some kind of bug or this is because of the balance? Here is some info about the question: https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Composite_armour_(Generals)
In this article it is written that the Crusader tank gets twice bigger bonus than the Paladin with this upgrade. Why is this needed according to your opinion?

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# 2HaWkY^ Jan 23 2019, 17:54 PM
Never really taken a notice but laser tanks with composite armour and hold the line are pretty epic


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# 3Leikeze Jan 23 2019, 18:13 PM
It's just the way they decided to do it.

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# 4-DoMiNaToR- Jan 23 2019, 19:20 PM
crusader beats paladin after the upgrade?

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# 5`Legionnaire Jan 23 2019, 23:21 PM
QUOTE(-DoMiNaToR- @ Jan 23 2019, 20:20 PM) *

crusader beats paladin after the upgrade?

barely, but yes (assuming no drones)

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# 6Terminator 88 Jan 24 2019, 08:29 AM
QUOTE(HaWkY^ @ Jan 23 2019, 17:54 PM) *

Never really taken a notice but laser tanks with composite armour and hold the line are pretty epic

Yeah, the Laser tanks are awesome.

QUOTE(Leikeze @ Jan 23 2019, 18:13 PM) *

It's just the way they decided to do it.

Yeah, and if this is really the way they've decided to do it- it must be because of the game balance.

QUOTE(-DoMiNaToR- @ Jan 23 2019, 19:20 PM) *

crusader beats paladin after the upgrade?

Yeah, I've tried it thousands of times and the result is the same. Before the upgrade the difference is small, but is in the favor of the Paladin tank, while after the upgrade it is small difference again, but in favor of the Crusader. So the Paladin remains more expensive and weaker. sad.gif

QUOTE(`Legionnaire @ Jan 23 2019, 23:21 PM) *

barely, but yes (assuming no drones)

If they have Helffire drones, the Paladin can beat the Crusader, but in every other scenario it can not beat the Crusader, because of that difference in the bonus.

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# 7HaWkY^ Jan 24 2019, 11:37 AM
This is actually pretty shocking if true. Wonder how many times paladin tanks have been wasted in USA vs China then if this is the case


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# 8ZaRz Jan 24 2019, 16:47 PM
Laser Tank and Crusader Tank have 480hp
Paladin Tank have 500hp
After CompositeArmor upgrade Crusader and Laser tank get 2x100hp = 200hp
Paladin Tank get 1x100hp
so, after upgrade:
Crusaders have 680hp
Paladin have 600hp
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I do not know why the developers did it, but probably because of the balance

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# 9Terminator 88 Jan 25 2019, 06:38 AM
QUOTE(HaWkY^ @ Jan 24 2019, 11:37 AM) *

This is actually pretty shocking if true. Wonder how many times paladin tanks have been wasted in USA vs China then if this is the case


Why? Was it believed that Paladins are more durable than Crusaders even after the CA upgrade? In fact, if someone has never tried to fight them one on one, he or she can't know, because there is no logic behind this. No one can suppose that after equal bonus the two units would be so different after it.

QUOTE(ZaRz @ Jan 24 2019, 16:47 PM) *

Laser Tank and Crusader Tank have 480hp
Paladin Tank have 500hp
After CompositeArmor upgrade Crusader and Laser tank get 2x100hp = 200hp
Paladin Tank get 1x100hp
so, after upgrade:
Crusaders have 680hp
Paladin have 600hp
--
I do not know why the developers did it, but probably because of the balance


Yeah, there is no other explanation. Of course it can be something that is just overlooked. I see how many excellent players haven't noticed this, so the developers might also missed this.

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# 10HaWkY^ Jan 25 2019, 09:49 AM
QUOTE(Terminator 88 @ Jan 25 2019, 07:38 AM) *

Why? Was it believed that Paladins are more durable than Crusaders even after the CA upgrade? In fact, if someone has never tried to fight them one on one, he or she can't know, because there is no logic behind this. No one can suppose that after equal bonus the two units would be so different after it.
Yeah, there is no other explanation. Of course it can be something that is just overlooked. I see how many excellent players haven't noticed this, so the developers might also missed this.


Because youíre new round here Iíll let you off for pretension to be Ďa fargoí, an idiot.

Now the paladin crusader thing could have something to do with the paladin costing $300 more and requiring a general promotion? But what do I know? Iím just an expert and youíre just Ďa fargoí


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# 11Jundiyy Jan 27 2019, 00:31 AM
Just seen this topic now, yes Crusaders are actually stronger after the upgrade, I don't think the devs did this on purpose, if you look at the coding, it simply looks like they forgot they already added the code and repeated the code with a new number.
(I worked this out during the time I started modding, looking through codes and changing units, that is when I came across it realised.)

Otherwise to add the code with 200 HP, you simply change the 100 to 200, but over here they added 100 then many coding lines down they added another 100.

In the end, the advantage the Paladin has is PDL and that's it, but I think in a late money spam game (example defcon), it would be better to spam Crsuaders + Avengers rather than Paladins Avengers.

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# 12Terminator 88 Jan 28 2019, 06:22 AM
QUOTE(HaWkY^ @ Jan 25 2019, 09:49 AM) *

Because youíre new round here Iíll let you off for pretension to be Ďa fargoí, an idiot.

Now the paladin crusader thing could have something to do with the paladin costing $300 more and requiring a general promotion? But what do I know? Iím just an expert and youíre just Ďa fargoí


Man, I didn't want to offend you in any way. I play in completely different rule set and I am far from your tactics and strategies. I was asking generally about the USA's tanks versus China. I find it very hard to outpower China with tanks. That is why I have asked, not why Paladins instead of Crusaders? And by the way the difference is 200 dollars. Peace! smile.gif

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Jan 27 2019, 00:31 AM) *

Just seen this topic now, yes Crusaders are actually stronger after the upgrade, I don't think the devs did this on purpose, if you look at the coding, it simply looks like they forgot they already added the code and repeated the code with a new number.
(I worked this out during the time I started modding, looking through codes and changing units, that is when I came across it realised.)

Otherwise to add the code with 200 HP, you simply change the 100 to 200, but over here they added 100 then many coding lines down they added another 100.

In the end, the advantage the Paladin has is PDL and that's it, but I think in a late money spam game (example defcon), it would be better to spam Crsuaders + Avengers rather than Paladins Avengers.


Yeah, it is logical with your explanation, man. Still- in ZH with Avengers, the Paladins are quite useless compared with Crusaders. sad.gif

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# 13HaWkY^ Jan 28 2019, 11:37 AM
I think China finds it harder vs tomahawks tanks avengers


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# 14Terminator 88 Jan 29 2019, 15:04 PM
QUOTE(HaWkY^ @ Jan 28 2019, 11:37 AM) *

I think China finds it harder vs tomahawks tanks avengers

Yes, I agree with you. I think that the buggies and tomahawks are "field artillery. They are good at the battlefield, not so great like the nuke cannon or SCUD launcher for static defense, which IMO are ''siege artillery". The tomahawks, especially when are on some high ground can deal great damage to the slow Chinese units, while the US tanks hold the line. Honestly I haven't used Avengers against anybody. I believe that they can be very useful against GLA- neutralizing the stinger sites, the scorpion rockets, the RPG troopers rockets... Never mind I think that I speak for very different scenarios than you have used to play- I play with 50 k and rely mostly on strategy, not tactics... And the guys with who I play are from Tunngle, Hamachi and some other similar programs, not big players. smile.gif

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# 15-ExiLe` Jan 29 2019, 15:14 PM
QUOTE(Terminator 88 @ Jan 29 2019, 16:04 PM) *

Yes, I agree with you. I think that the buggies and tomahawks are "field artillery. They are good at the battlefield, not so great like the nuke cannon or SCUD launcher for static defense, which IMO are ''siege artillery". The tomahawks, especially when are on some high ground can deal great damage to the slow Chinese units, while the US tanks hold the line. Honestly I haven't used Avengers against anybody. I believe that they can be very useful against GLA- neutralizing the stinger sites, the scorpion rockets, the RPG troopers rockets... Never mind I think that I speak for very different scenarios than you have used to play- I play with 50 k and rely mostly on strategy, not tactics... And the guys with who I play are from Tunngle, Hamachi and some other similar programs, not big players. smile.gif


imo scuds and tommys are both great for offensive and defense. nuke cannons however are more practical for defense, you are right about that. do you play with rules btw?

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# 16Fargo Jan 29 2019, 16:47 PM
hawky u still fat? post-13661-1143531603.gif

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# 17HaWkY^ Jan 29 2019, 20:14 PM
Fargo can you please stop eating the food that the animals eat that I eat? Youíre going to kill the animals ffs. Think of the planet will you?


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# 18Terminator 88 Jan 30 2019, 07:22 AM
QUOTE(-ExiLe` @ Jan 29 2019, 15:14 PM) *

imo scuds and tommys are both great for offensive and defense. nuke cannons however are more practical for defense, you are right about that. do you play with rules btw?

Man, I was using the SCUDS especially when I was playing with the demo general, but after many battles I realized that in some mass scale battles, when you are attacking you are giving more casualties, because of the friendly fire than the enemy's fire. Yeah, no doubt about the fact that they are very, very powerful, but I prefer them for special operations, when acting alone with some back up nearby. No, I don't play with some particular rules, however I prefer 50000 dollars from the start for some bigger engagements and more strategy than tactics... And no, I don't attack some gattling cannons with infantry or trying to outpower SW general's defense with tanks. smile.gif

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# 19Leikeze Jan 30 2019, 12:26 PM
QUOTE(Terminator 88 @ Jan 30 2019, 02:22 AM) *

Man, I was using the SCUDS especially when I was playing with the demo general, but after many battles I realized that in some mass scale battles, when you are attacking you are giving more casualties, because of the friendly fire than the enemy's fire. Yeah, no doubt about the fact that they are very, very powerful, but I prefer them for special operations, when acting alone with some back up nearby. No, I don't play with some particular rules, however I prefer 50000 dollars from the start for some bigger engagements and more strategy than tactics... And no, I don't attack some gattling cannons with infantry or trying to outpower SW general's defense with tanks. smile.gif

SCUDs are hot stuff when you've got the higher ground, all you need to do is practice with them a while to stop the friendly fire.

They're especially good in 50k games on Hostile Dawn.

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# 20Terminator 88 Jan 30 2019, 14:06 PM
QUOTE(Leikeze @ Jan 30 2019, 12:26 PM) *

SCUDs are hot stuff when you've got the higher ground, all you need to do is practice with them a while to stop the friendly fire.

They're especially good in 50k games on Hostile Dawn.


Hm, interesting, I am going to try them. I play with 50k so this sounds good to me. Honestly for very long time they were bad for me, because I like to use mass and or non stop attacks, relying on raw power (for me it is possible with all GLA factions without the stealth guy, no matter what everybody says) and they were very devastating not only for my opponents, but also for me. Going for rapid advancing is bad idea when you have SCUDs behind you and with the time I have changed my habits- so now I rely more on buggies (yes, when they are a lot, I mean a lot, they are suitable not only for hit and run tactics).

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