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Red Alert 3: Balanced Edition

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# 1Master x Jun 25 2021, 16:46 PM
Hi guys. This is Master_x. You probably don't know me but I'm a big fan of this game. I've been working on a balance patch for a while now (Not coding myself, but actively trying to find a way to achieve accomplishing a balance patch for myself and for RA3 community). I have a vision for the patch, you may not share this vision with me, and that's fine, feel free to contact me for that(Discord, Gamereplays) but not here. I'm here to tell you about my ideas and the process that I have in mind.

-What is balancing the game exactly?

* Balancing the game means many things and surprisingly different things for different people. From my perspective, a balanced game is:
1- Every strategy/play is counterable in every matchup with similar amount of (strategy risk/strategy needed skill)
2- Every unit/unit ability is viable and can be the best for at least 1 certain situation in all matchups.
3- The overall strength and build options of a faction in a perfectly balanced map (which doesn't exist) is equal to other factions.
However:
1- A faction can be stronger than another in early game/late game.
2- A unit in a faction can be stronger than it's counterpart in another faction, provided that all of the balance conditions are achieved.
3- A faction can have an advantage in a certain map over other maps. The advantage that the map provides shouldn't be huge though, 10% more wins for the favored faction max (provided that both players are exactly of same experience and skill). Otherwise, the map would be considered imbalanced and needs to be reworked.

-What is this post?

*This post is made to encourage people who are interested and qualified to help me making a balance patch.
*If you are a modder or a GameReplay's Red Alert 3 Expert or you believe you are a TOP 1% player, your opinion is highly valued and I want to hear from you only about the items in the "BALANCE LIST". Any other suggestions and opinions about the patch's change list from people other than the mentioned above or about my vision of the patch from anyone are absolutely not welcome here. Feel free to make your own patch.
*This is NOT a post where a bunch of people throw in ideas and suggestions about balance, with no upper authority or system in place to take any action going forward.
*This is NOT for you if you are not interested/don't care about improving the game. I'm doing this for the absolute love of the game. I don't want to hear from you if you talk about waste of time, who will play this, why are you doing this, the game is dead... etc.
*I will not feel lonely if no one comments on this thread. It's an attempt from me to see if this is doable in this community at this time. I may fail and it's okay. Maybe if I still play this game 5 years from now someone will care at some point. I'm pretty sure I'll be still casually playing, I love this game. This is a fun project for me, I do have fun into thinking what went wrong with EA developing the game and how could it be better. With the correct approach in place I don't think this will take much time to finish.

-My vision for the patch

* Pro players and experts are the best in the game. The game should be balanced according to their unbiased opinions due to their expertise and the immense amount of games. Balancing the game at the highest human level is necessary for the patch to make it into tournaments "hopefully".
* The patch balance changes are of a voting system. If an item got 50%+ agreement of all contributing pros, it will be tested temporarily in the patch until confirmed to be good. Only expert and top 1% players are allowed to vote and directly suggest items in the patch. if 50%+ of contributing experts agreed on any player to be fit to review and vote then he can too. Any normal community member can make an item suggestion via contacting any of the contributing experts and convincing them to add the suggestion or change their view - or by contacting me. (except me, I can suggest directly).
* After we have 5+ experts contributing and a modder working on them, we will release a beta. Confirmed items will be made into a final version after testing.
* Gathering opinions from various faction pro players is essential to ensure the patch is not biased towards one faction. However, it's true the amount of players that are playing in this level is small and mostly consists of Allies players, we have to trust them though.
* Eventually, if this gains traction I hope people will adopt this into their games and play tournaments with it. At least with people who installed Chris's 1.12.6. There is no plan to make this popular and no guarantee that the effort made will be implemented. However we've already made some progress, we will not start from scratch.

-Where are we now?

So far I've been able to cooperate with: (HappyWins., Dimon, WalfTheWolf). + Chris as a modder. Here is a link to the list so far (which is by no means finished or represents a complete balance for the game):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qdqlJe...RKbVv5AzQwIJ2lc

Let me know by PM if only you want to help. Thanks.

This post has been edited by Master x: Jun 26 2021, 16:50 PM

Posts: 101

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# 2Constable Chris Jun 25 2021, 20:18 PM
I have taken an extensive look at the proposed changes in the documents and here is everything I have to say from a coding perspective:

1. Empire Power Plant Upgrades
This can be done with little effort including the visual changes. Other mods have done this (albeit with different settings) like Revolution.


2. Toggling Abilities
From the RA3 MOD SDK standpoint, a change like this cannot be implemented. It's a coding limit. Feel free to correct me if you know otherwise or have seen other mods do this. Removing cooldowns is easy, but implementing the alt + click feature is another story.


3. Sell and Repair mode changes
Similar to the previously mentioned change, these cannot be implemented. Again, correct me if you know otherwise.


4-A.Wall Orientation changes
We cannot control or implement a feature that allows the player to choose what walls he can connect to. It's another limit.


4-B. Diagonal Wall Connection
Impossible. You may have seen this in the Allied campaign, but this was done manually in the world builder, which allows a bit more freedom.


4-C. Construction Complete EVA
It's an obvious audio bug with no known solution yet. One way to prevent this is to have the walls built in the sidebar like other structures and placing them when they are complete (Like Revolution), but whether this is something players will agree to is another topic.


4-D. Wall construction on Water
It is relatively simple to implement, but we would need artwork for platforms and it looks like most parties have refused this change anyway.


4-E. Connection to Enemy Walls
Not really a bug so much as it is an oversight from the developers. Basically, walls behave exactly as they should, except enemy walls are not filtered out from the connection logic. Many players actually use (or exploit?) this, but it's a very easy fix that can be done.


4-F Insufficient Funds not canceling segments
The cost of the total segment determines whether it will be placed or not. It is impossible to change this or have the number of segments placed depend on the number of credits the player has. It is what it is. Either you have enough money for the whole segment or it won't be placed.


5-A. MCVs crushing walls with a move command
Funnily enough, this was one of the first fixes I tried to implement in 1.12.4 and I got massive backlash over it. How times have changed... I'm ready to reimplement this fix assuming it will get community approval.


5-B. MCVs ghosting through tier 1 units on water
Impossible to implement without completely altering the geometry/collision of the MCV which will have a lot of unwanted ramifications.


5-C. Build Queue Pausing allowing for other construction
This is interesting and I'm not sure if it can be done or not, it needs more research from a coding standpoint.


6.Initial Resources changes
It can be done, but we would need to implement a global patch because it does not work with mod maps for obvious reasons. We would need to implement patches that affect the offline clients of every single player, which will divide the community unless a proper way is implemented to make sure everyone has the new version. It looks like this change was refused anyways.


7. Purchasing Protocols Horizontally
Impossible. Protocols are coded strictly to be purchased in a vertical order.
Changing the order of protocols is easy though.


8. Multiplayer color changes
Much like starting resources, there is no way to change this without implementing a global patch.
Changing/Adding new colors is very easy and it's something a lot of people have requested over the years, but as long as we don't have the approval for a global patch from Revora, this will never happen.


9. Pausing games for both players and all associated features
Not possible as far as I know, I will do some more investigation but I'm almost 100% certain that this cannot be done without the engine code on our side.


10. Map Timers
Easy to implement using map scripting.


11. Crane repairing vehicles that are carried by Twinblades
Interesting idea yet very tricky implementation assuming it is possible...


12. Iron Curtained units can no longer be teleported
Obvious bug with a very easy fix. It's more or less an indirect balance change but in reality, it's a bug fix.


13. Base Defenses not being auto-attacked while under construction
Not really possible. The flag that causes this is applied to the building the millisecond it is placed on the map, and there is no way to delay it.


14. Terror Drones not allowing Aircraft Carriers to attack
Fixed in 1.12.8.


15. Apocalypse Mag Harpoon benefiting from Grinder Treads.
This is already the case in 1.12. You can see it if you pay close attention to a damaged Apoc grinding a unit. It will get an instant health recovery the moment the grinding begins.


16.EVA "Upgrading" Announcement for Max/Heightened Clearance
Implemented in 1.12.8 for all upgrades.


17.Vindi bombs no longer deflect when Black Hole armor is canceled
Not possible.


18. Blackout Missile Flare
This may or may not be possible. I need to check if we can somehow use the same logic from protocols.


19. Commandos targeting walls
They are coded to filter out walls from their attack so this is clearly intentional. It's easy to remove this assuming everyone reaches an agreement on this.


20. Spy Disguising as units with secondary modes
Impossible.


21. Units moving at the same speed as the spy in a formation with some exceptions
Impossible.


22. Century Bombers dropping bombs instantly
You can already (sort of) control their bombing behavior, but we can definitely improve it.


23. Burst Drone Attachment to friendly units
The associated changes with this proposal are impossible to implement.


All changes that are a matter of health, armor, damage, build requirements, cost...etc are easy changes to implement as it is just a matter of changing values that any beginner modder can do. Save for a few tricky exceptions that do require a bit more knowledge

The amount of time it takes to freeze/unfreeze something is strictly determined by the amount of HP the object has. The only way we can somewhat control this is by changing how fast cryo weaponry freeze objects, but unfreezing is not something we can control.

Please do note that when I say something is impossible to implement, it does not mean it is set in stone. Either there are CURRENTLY no way to implement them, or I judged them to be coding limits based on my knowledge and experience.

There are various bugs that we thought were impossible to fix in the past but we ended up finding a solution for them later on in the future.

People need to understand that the RA3 MOD SDK is very limited in terms of flexibility and the changes/fixes that can be made, and this is the main reason we cannot fix all bugs, and it's exactly the reason why many of the proposed changes in this document cannot be implemented.

This post has been edited by Constable Chris: Jun 25 2021, 20:40 PM

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# 3Master x Jun 25 2021, 22:21 PM
@chris (not quoting for long as* comment): I appreciate you taking the effort to go through this list. I've seen the difficulties and honestly, I knew this was pretty expected from the start. I kinda estimated most of the "impossible" changes that you said are impossible, but I took the approach of letting my imagination run and saying "what if" in case the modder has higher skill than what I thought possible. It's very expected that there are changes that will encounter a technical difficulty and we will all reconsider alternatives once the patch is ready for implementation. There are items that you misunderstood clearly while making an explanation why they aren't possible too. But this is not the time for all that.

As I mentioned, we need to gather more opinions than we currently have at this moment I'm writing this comment. I've also noticed you referring several times to "the community agrees". I hope you understand the vision I'm going with mentioned in the OP.

I would understand if anyone is concerned that this might not gain popularity. But I believe when people see the improvement this patch makes, everybody will love it. I'm positive that if we all collaborate on this effort, something beautiful will happen. Factions will have much more versatility, more units usable, and finally a "more" balanced gameplay.

Currently, your input is helpful only if you will help to implement the patch as a modder when we reach the 5+ expert mark. Let me know if you are interested.

This post has been edited by Master x: Jun 25 2021, 22:33 PM

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# 4Bashley Jun 25 2021, 23:52 PM
"staring resources from 10k to 5k" i already can't take this serious, 2 ref empire costing 5k alone. already there is much balance discussion between decent players that got nowhere far, now lower level player who excessively dodges any higher tier player believes they have the knowledge to input on balance of the game?

anyone here might think I'm being mean or unfair, but no, I'm being truthful and the honest truth is, you are completely wasting your time.

Posts: 350

Game: League of Legends


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# 5cwedvin Jun 25 2021, 23:57 PM
No offense to the interest of the project at all, its great to see that you are having this interest and for your sake, I hope it goes well.

However 5+ experts? when the experts are more or less gone? we have dimon who is active pika and vindies who show up from time to time and other than that we maybe see a game here or there from inactive experts.

Also, why should only experts be having a say in the matter?
We have already had a community discussion on it where everyone was allowed to say a thing or two and share their opinion.

Dimon threw out a few suggestions a few counter or follow up comments came along
Pika threw out the game is balanced, even among the experts people would say it's balanced.

the community does not agree with one another as no one really know who to "trust" or "follow" along when it comes to the changes.

do you trust dimon to say nerf or buff that?
or pika or vindies me or Chris?

I have never really agreed with "experts or top players" only should have their say in any matter. as that leaves out a lot of the community that is still important, aye ra3 does only have what 200 people so it's not a whole lot running about. we have to take into account that if this patch were to be made (whatever the changes may be) people may like it or may not like it, and if people like it, great, if people don't like it then they might not want to play the patch and the work may have been in wain ofc no risk = no reward so it might just be worth it taking the risk.

But we should not exclude the other "good" "mid" players from saying their side of things, and ANY dev on such a balance patch should not "disregard" a "good/mid" person's opinion for a lesser value than an expert.

It's important that people get to have a say and feel involved with the process. It increases the likely hood of people actually liking the patch as if something went wrong they will know you will listen to what they have to say about it.

I am not writing this as I believe what you are doing is wrong or a "waste of time" If you think you can do this and you like doing this then keep it up smile.gif I Just wanted to race my opinion on something and i hope it does not hit you the wrong way. Best of luck with your project.

Posts: 3,779

Clan: Cant win

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 6Master x Jun 26 2021, 01:16 AM
QUOTE(Bashley @ Jun 25 2021, 23:52 PM) *

"staring resources from 10k to 5k" i already can't take this serious, 2 ref empire costing 5k alone. already there is much balance discussion between decent players that got nowhere far, now lower level player who excessively dodges any higher tier player believes they have the knowledge to input on balance of the game?

anyone here might think I'm being mean or unfair, but no, I'm being truthful and the honest truth is, you are completely wasting your time.


https://bit.ly/3gUZSAs

Posts: 101

Game: AirMech


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# 7Master x Jun 26 2021, 01:31 AM
QUOTE(cwedvin @ Jun 25 2021, 23:57 PM) *

No offense to the interest of the project at all, its great to see that you are having this interest and for your sake, I hope it goes well.

However 5+ experts? when the experts are more or less gone? we have dimon who is active pika and vindies who show up from time to time and other than that we maybe see a game here or there from inactive experts.

Also, why should only experts be having a say in the matter?
We have already had a community discussion on it where everyone was allowed to say a thing or two and share their opinion.

Dimon threw out a few suggestions a few counter or follow up comments came along
Pika threw out the game is balanced, even among the experts people would say it's balanced.

the community does not agree with one another as no one really know who to "trust" or "follow" along when it comes to the changes.

do you trust dimon to say nerf or buff that?
or pika or vindies me or Chris?

I have never really agreed with "experts or top players" only should have their say in any matter. as that leaves out a lot of the community that is still important, aye ra3 does only have what 200 people so it's not a whole lot running about. we have to take into account that if this patch were to be made (whatever the changes may be) people may like it or may not like it, and if people like it, great, if people don't like it then they might not want to play the patch and the work may have been in wain ofc no risk = no reward so it might just be worth it taking the risk.

But we should not exclude the other "good" "mid" players from saying their side of things, and ANY dev on such a balance patch should not "disregard" a "good/mid" person's opinion for a lesser value than an expert.

It's important that people get to have a say and feel involved with the process. It increases the likely hood of people actually liking the patch as if something went wrong they will know you will listen to what they have to say about it.

I am not writing this as I believe what you are doing is wrong or a "waste of time" If you think you can do this and you like doing this then keep it up smile.gif I Just wanted to race my opinion on something and i hope it does not hit you the wrong way. Best of luck with your project.


It appears to me you skimmed through the text of mine but uh uh, every bit was important and you missed a lot. TLDR for you:
-For me if people don't like the patch it's okay. I had my fun doing this and I'll play it with Oleg!

-There is something I didn't mention but I will edit the post for, if 50%+ of contributing experts agreed on a player to be fit to review and vote then he can too. Otherwise, I never said I would disregard the community suggestions - they can make suggestions but that doesn't mean they are gonna be voted to be included in the patch. It's totally okay if the patch to fail to be done, but this is my approach all the way. It's in my opinion the fairest and the best for the game. I'll never open a discussion where people run around throwing ideas everywhere.

Posts: 101

Game: AirMech


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# 8Bashley Jun 26 2021, 02:11 AM
QUOTE(Master x @ Jun 26 2021, 01:16 AM) *


Sorry, i'll let you hear what you want to hear <3 xoxo

wow master it's rly good what u r doing, i hope u spend more time on this, it will really help the community, hopefully this will help balance the game and players like myself can finally win tournament because acctually i am really amazing and i only don't win because this game is like turbo giga broken, i think 5k start is good because then allies can't do their broken imba cryo rushes, and also i think it's totally unfair that empire can start 2 refs at once when other factions can't, like they must get well extra money compared to other factions at start, like that is so broken holy moly, i think your idea of AvS aswell should really be accounted for because acctually i see u r playing against happies sovs all the time and so you must be really expirienced in the matchup, but i see you lose a lot, but don't worry, sovs is like giga broken becausse all they have to do is sit on base and they can make infite refs cus they are not punished for moving their mcv, however allies is punished, i think that needs to be fixed because that is like well broken early and late game.

overall master i think it's great what you are doing i really hope you the best and i hope chris' bad patches are abolished for these ones and i hope we include all players, even players like peacebestow, xonurhead and Zman as this inclusion will help to support high level players like dimon, but it can also be used in great 2v2v2 carville games maybe and everyone will use the patch and be happy

Posts: 350

Game: League of Legends


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# 9c9q9md Jun 26 2021, 03:29 AM
QUOTE(Master x @ Jun 26 2021, 01:16 AM) *

That website gave me cancer and I am using adblock. Are really all of you people stuck in 2008?

This game is good as it is, the fact that balance "discussions" take place 13 years since devs touched this game is proof it's somewhat balanced.

Just look at the tournament spreadsheet. There is a lot of red alert 3 history there, and everything points to the fact that every faction has had it's glory days. In fact its really balanced.

The largest "modern" tournament for red alert 3 had 1 empire 1 soviet and 1 allies in top 3. If you can't say that's beautiful after several years of figuring this game out, then I don't know.

Just because a "certain" empire youtuber's comment section is filled with people complaining that allies is OP, it does not make it truth. If you were to make a Venn diagram of those people and people who manage to lose to Hard CPUs, it would be a fucking circle.


Just my 2 cents.

Posts: 3,497

Game: None


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# 10Master x Jun 26 2021, 04:05 AM
QUOTE(c9q9md @ Jun 26 2021, 03:29 AM) *

That website gave me cancer and I am using adblock. Are really all of you people stuck in 2008?

This game is good as it is, the fact that balance "discussions" take place 13 years since devs touched this game is proof it's somewhat balanced.

Just look at the tournament spreadsheet. There is a lot of red alert 3 history there, and everything points to the fact that every faction has had it's glory days. In fact its really balanced.

The largest "modern" tournament for red alert 3 had 1 empire 1 soviet and 1 allies in top 3. If you can't say that's beautiful after several years of figuring this game out, then I don't know.

Just because a "certain" empire youtuber's comment section is filled with people complaining that allies is OP, it does not make it truth. If you were to make a Venn diagram of those people and people who manage to lose to Hard CPUs, it would be a fucking circle.
Just my 2 cents.


Congrats, you have wasted 913 keyboard strokes! Nobody asked for opinions in this post! Idk I'm not poor take your 2 cents while you are at it thanks.

Posts: 101

Game: AirMech


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# 11Constable Chris Jun 26 2021, 04:12 AM
QUOTE(Master x @ Jun 25 2021, 22:21 PM) *

@chris (not quoting for long as* comment): I appreciate you taking the effort to go through this list. I've seen the difficulties and honestly, I knew this was pretty expected from the start. I kinda estimated most of the "impossible" changes that you said are impossible, but I took the approach of letting my imagination run and saying "what if" in case the modder has higher skill than what I thought possible. It's very expected that there are changes that will encounter a technical difficulty and we will all reconsider alternatives once the patch is ready for implementation. There are items that you misunderstood clearly while making an explanation why they aren't possible too. But this is not the time for all that.

As I mentioned, we need to gather more opinions than we currently have at this moment I'm writing this comment. I've also noticed you referring several times to "the community agrees". I hope you understand the vision I'm going with mentioned in the OP.

I would understand if anyone is concerned that this might not gain popularity. But I believe when people see the improvement this patch makes, everybody will love it. I'm positive that if we all collaborate on this effort, something beautiful will happen. Factions will have much more versatility, more units usable, and finally a "more" balanced gameplay.

Currently, your input is helpful only if you will help to implement the patch as a modder when we reach the 5+ expert mark. Let me know if you are interested.


I'm ready to implement this as a modder. I just wanted to make sure that you (and the experts involved) are well aware of the limits at hand just so that no one has any unrealistic expectations.

Assuming you hit the 5+ expert mark (or whatever benchmark you are looking for), let me know and we can build a beta version of this and gradually add more changes down the road for testing purposes.

Posts: 2,252

Clan: H2O

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 12Master x Jun 26 2021, 04:34 AM
QUOTE(Constable Chris @ Jun 26 2021, 04:12 AM) *

I'm ready to implement this as a modder. I just wanted to make sure that you (and the experts involved) are well aware of the limits at hand just so that no one has any unrealistic expectations.

Assuming you hit the 5+ expert mark (or whatever benchmark you are looking for), let me know and we can build a beta version of this and gradually add more changes down the road for testing purposes.


Thanks, good to feel we got a modder backing us up. I'll inform you of any updates on discord.

Posts: 101

Game: AirMech


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# 13c9q9md Jun 26 2021, 08:19 AM
QUOTE(Master x @ Jun 26 2021, 04:05 AM) *

Congrats, you have wasted 913 keyboard strokes! Nobody asked for opinions in this post! Idk I'm not poor take your 2 cents while you are at it thanks.


I honestly didn't even read any of the posts, I just wanted to shitpost after a night out. You specifically asked for good people to come with input so the "nobody asked" part is wrong.

I actually read your post now and I am even more confused than before. The ". (except me, I can suggest directly)." - part made me chuckle, concidering you didn't want mids' opinions on anything. So thanks for that.

The way you respond to people also intrigues me. Even the people kind enough to walk on eggshells to avoid startling you still seem to recieve the same condescending "u stopid" response you give out to us truly retarded people like myself and bashley.

I went through my GR thread checklist, and it seems this thread has a high potential of becoming a truly magnificent dumpster-fire like no other. Atleast a 2021 candidate.

This post has been edited by c9q9md: Jun 26 2021, 09:58 AM

Posts: 3,497

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# 14Papa_Coming Jun 26 2021, 12:41 PM
This situation reminds me of the three singers on titanic. A sinking game, totally abandonded yet few people sacrifices themselves to cheer up the atmosphere. Master_X and the 3 experts that have spent 14 hours reading the text and another 14 making a decision, and rageofheat that is spending thousands of dollars, please join us. Jump into the boat and save yourself.

Posts: 784


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# 15cwedvin Jun 26 2021, 13:20 PM
QUOTE(Papa_Coming @ Jun 26 2021, 12:41 PM) *

This situation reminds me of the three singers on titanic. A sinking game, totally abandonded yet few people sacrifices themselves to cheer up the atmosphere. Master_X and the 3 experts that have spent 14 hours reading the text and another 14 making a decision, and rageofheat that is spending thousands of dollars, please join us. Jump into the boat and save yourself.

With enough money you could block the hole in the sinking ship biggrin.gif

What biggrin.gif

Posts: 3,779

Clan: Cant win

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 16Master x Jun 26 2021, 13:42 PM
QUOTE(c9q9md @ Jun 26 2021, 08:19 AM) *

I honestly didn't even read any of the posts, I just wanted to shitpost after a night out. You specifically asked for good people to come with input so the "nobody asked" part is wrong.

I actually read your post now and I am even more confused than before. The ". (except me, I can suggest directly)." - part made me chuckle, concidering you didn't want mids' opinions on anything. So thanks for that.

The way you respond to people also intrigues me. Even the people kind enough to walk on eggshells to avoid startling you still seem to recieve the same condescending "u stopid" response you give out to us truly retarded people like myself and bashley.

I went through my GR thread checklist, and it seems this thread has a high potential of becoming a truly magnificent dumpster-fire like no other. Atleast a 2021 candidate.

Ofc you didn't read it. And even after you read it you still say "didn't consider opinions from mids" just tells a lot about your comprehension level. Glad that was pretty clear in your responses. You still say your opinion about how to make the patch and what's the best approach I'm not sure how much larger the font needs to be to penetrate your "night out" skull.

Posts: 101

Game: AirMech


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# 17Master x Jun 26 2021, 14:06 PM
QUOTE(Papa_Coming @ Jun 26 2021, 12:41 PM) *

This situation reminds me of the three singers on titanic. A sinking game, totally abandonded yet few people sacrifices themselves to cheer up the atmosphere. Master_X and the 3 experts that have spent 14 hours reading the text and another 14 making a decision, and rageofheat that is spending thousands of dollars, please join us. Jump into the boat and save yourself.

Yet another case of "who cares" coming in hot into the post thinking he is funny and so on. The ironic thing is this guy spends his nights playing RA3 and doing carvillies and being the most active on the "abandoned" game chat

https://bit.ly/3xQM9Ag

Posts: 101

Game: AirMech


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# 18c9q9md Jun 26 2021, 14:42 PM
Is your entire foundation of argumentation simple ad-hominem attacks?
Please explain why my original first post was invalid. Should we throw away history because it doesn't fit your fantasy narrative of this game beeing imbalanced?

Posts: 3,497

Game: None


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# 19Master x Jun 26 2021, 15:01 PM
QUOTE(c9q9md @ Jun 26 2021, 14:42 PM) *

Is your entire foundation of argumentation simple ad-hominem attacks?
Please explain why my original first post was invalid. Should we throw away history because it doesn't fit your fantasy narrative of this game beeing imbalanced?


" I have a vision for the patch, you may not share this vision with me, and that's fine, feel free to contact me for that(Discord, Gamereplays) but not here."

Posts: 101

Game: AirMech


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# 20c9q9md Jun 26 2021, 15:06 PM
I am pretty sure not a single person will take anything you say seriously after reading how you cannot even handle the most basic of critisisms or opposing ideas.

Also I have to ask, who even are you?

This post has been edited by c9q9md: Jun 26 2021, 15:14 PM

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