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Command and Conquer 3

Tiberium Wars Bug-Fix and Balance Map Pack

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# 1Luvaskot Dec 23 2018, 01:59 AM
Hi, I just finished the mod I was working on for quite some time. Had been working on implementing KW's 1.02+ bug fixes into Tiberium Wars. I also fixed some issues unique to Tiberium Wars ( tier-3 walker crush, cannot build over enemy beacon etc. ) I've tested it with Maze and Technique, and they liked the changes overall. I wanted to share the mod with you.

Here is the change list:

Spoiler
--------------------------------------Changelog--------------------------------------

[All Factions]

-Rafinery bug is now fixed. (as in KW)
-Tripod, Avatar and Juggernaut crushing bug was fixed.
-XP bug/inconsistencies fixed for various units.
-Fixed invincible controllable Ox transport exploit. (as in KW)
-Buildings cannot be building on enemy beacon bug was fied.
-Firehawk Stratofighter button now greyed out while taking off. (as in KW)
-Corrupters, Storm Colums and Sonic Emitters can now kill husks via force-fire.
-Units teleported via Mastermind to an Ion Storm are no longer killed.
-Fixed target priorities for Seekers, Devastators, Fanatics. (as in KW)
-Delays on several abilities reduced: Jumpjets, Rig packup, Flametank preattack delay. (as in KW)
-Zone Trooper Scannerpacks range bug fixed. (as in KW)
-Repair Drones can now repair allied units in team games. (as in KW)
-Mutant Marauder range increased. Cannon armor resistance doubled (normalised with other infantry). Now stealthed while moving in Tiberium.

[Scrin]

-Seeker and charged Devourver damage increased by 6% against bikes. Seekers now 2 shot bikes, Charged Devourvers 1 shot bikes. (as in KW)
-Devourvers can shoot while moving. (as in KW)
-Shocktroopers have teleportation ability with no delay time anymore. (as in KW)
-Scrin MCVs can now be teleported by Mastermind while packing/unpacking. (as in KW)
-Scrin MCVs can now be phased by phase field while packing/unpacking. (as in KW)


[Nod]

-NOD Confessor Grenade range equaled to the KW counterpart.
-Obelisk price increased to 2300$ from 1800$
-Avatar price incresed to 2400$ from 2200$
-Avatar main cannon damage nerfed by 4% (now it is 1200)
-Avatar beam upgraded cannon damage buffed from 600 to 800.(It one shots bikes now)
-Stealth Tank price incresed to 1800$ from 1500$. (as in KW)
-Catalyst now costs 3000$.
-Catalyst deals slightly less damage to GDI harvs, It doesn't one shot Nod harvs. (as in KW)
-Beam cannon range buffed to 600 (same as is KW) and it is availible on T2.


[GDI]

-Sonic Emitter price increased to 2500$ from 2000$
-Juggernaut price increased to 2300$ from 2200$
-GDI Rig unpacks/packs faster, speed increased by 20%, cost reduced from 2000$ to 1700$.
-Zone Troopers have jumpjet ability with no delay time anymore (as in KW)
-Zone Trooper range increased by 4% (as in KW)
-APC instant mine drops. (as in KW)
-Orca Sensor Pods attached to friendly vehicles are no longer removed by friendly drones.
-Orca Sensor Pod deploy delay reduced.
-Stealth detection range for Sensor Pods slightly reduced. (as in KW)
-Snipers can deal damage to vehicles and structures now.
(It is lower than rifle damage. Just a cosmetic change; added it because they are already aiming vehicles etc. and landing empty shots. )

--------------------------------------Changelog--------------------------------------


You can download the file from the ModDB link:

Tiberium Wars Community Patch

Hope you enjoy.

Edit: Download link was updated. Removed the locomotor changes as suggested.

This post has been edited by Luvaskot: Jan 4 2019, 16:02 PM

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# 2Thanatos Dec 23 2018, 04:05 AM
Those all seem like really good changes! I'll try it out next time im on TW.

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# 3Technique Dec 23 2018, 11:38 AM
I liked it ye, better than 1.09 overall.

Tho I don't like any locomotor changes at all.
Think they suck in kw 1.02+ as well.

This post has been edited by Technique: Dec 30 2018, 15:42 PM



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# 4~AngelOfDeath~ Dec 23 2018, 12:33 PM
And there were still announcements regarding 1.10 Patch laugh.gif

https://www.gamereplays.org/commandandconqu...;news_id=359476

https://www.gamereplays.org/commandandconqu...;news_id=409326

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# 5Claymore92 Dec 23 2018, 19:33 PM
This could have been a good bug fix patch. Maybe even a good balance patch had Luvaskot taken a different and more gentle approach, although balance patch is a dangerous road. As much as I respect Luvaskot and the time and effort he put into this, main issue is "as in KW", which raises the question "why not play KW"?

And if we are taking damage numbers from KW (example the Seeker damage buff), it raises the question "why not nerf shadows too so that you need 2 veterans to kill a power plant". You can't just copy numbers from one game to another, since they're different games.

I mean, do you see KW guys taking numbers from TW?

Hope I don't sound too harsh, but change is applied in small doses.

This post has been edited by Claymore92: Dec 23 2018, 20:19 PM

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# 6-Sjon Dec 23 2018, 20:20 PM
QUOTE(Claymore92 @ Dec 23 2018, 19:33 PM) *

This could have been a good bug fix patch. Maybe even a good balance patch had Luvaskot taken a different and more gentle approach, although balance patch is a dangerous road. As much as I respect Luvaskot and the time and effort he put into this, main issue is "as in KW", which raises the question "why not play KW"?

And if we are taking damage numbers from KW (example the Seeker damage buff), it raises the question "why not nerf shadows too so that you need 2 veterans to kill a power plant". You can't just copy numbers from one game to another, since they're different games.

I mean, do you see KW guys taking numbers from TW?

True, i'm no expert but my opinion is that the patch is too progressive. For instance, it could be argued that obelisks are too strong, but 500 credits edit seems way too much. And cata edit from 2000 to 3000. That is a HUGE difference.

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# 7shocktapus Dec 24 2018, 11:07 AM
It isn't progressive in the slightest. It is reductive, assuming that everything would be fixed if it was "like KW" without any actual analysis. Changes to acceleration, turn-circles and turret speeds reduce micro, as do changes to unit priorities for seekers, fanatics and devastators. Same with changing delays on unit abilities where it becomes a no-risk insta-click power rather than something you have to anticipate and perform with care.

The entire thing is a bad joke. If people wanted to play things "as KW" they would play KW. The people who stuck around in TW stayed because they did not like the direction KW took.


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# 8LordFlameheart Dec 25 2018, 02:04 AM
The bug fixes are very good, but balance change is controversial.

Avatars can be directly nerfed like the same way it was done in KW (HP/dmg, maybe by a less extent). Altering the price along with other very small stats changes feels redundant and inelegant.

Jugg doesnt really need a nerf. Its firerate/DPS is already 40% slower than KW jugg/behe, and has never been OP.

Beam Cannon moves to T2 looks good but buffing its range by 33% (which is same as Jugg) would be a challenge to balance. Even though it is same as KW, TW's mechanism works very differently.

Obelisk/Sonic changes are not really needed.

Stealth Tank doesnt need a price buff because TW doesnt have tib missile upgrade, and harvs are lot harder to kill.

Catalyst Missile's main problem is its massive radius, not its price/damage. The change was made on other trivial matters but would leave its OP nature unsolved.

Sniper targetting vehicle thing can be directly removed from its target object filter. I am not 100% sure if you made it with intention or you dont know how to remove it, but it really doesnt need to deal the trivial vehicle dmg.

RIG price reduction is debatable because it doesnt change its low mobile HP/deployed damage shity nature.

This post has been edited by LordFlameheart: Dec 25 2018, 02:26 AM

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# 9Whitey Dec 27 2018, 02:01 AM
Excellent job Luva! Even if some changes might not be perfect, it's excellent that somebody actually cares about this game and wishes to see it advanced and actually interesting to play. It's a shame the game is filled with gatekeepers who refuse to progress with the game and keep the old bug filled patch.

This post has been edited by Whitey: Dec 27 2018, 02:19 AM

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# 10Olli Dec 27 2018, 06:34 AM
"as in KW" - 20 times. No, if we want to play KW, we install KW and play it.
There`s a reason, espacily with the eco, why people prefer TW to KW since 10 years. With the eco changes you`ll destroy it - and with the unoffical patch you will make same chaos like in KW and will split one time the community.

i`ve nothing against an offical patch from EA, but not that which will bring everything into chaos.

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# 11Whitey Dec 27 2018, 08:08 AM
QUOTE(Olli @ Dec 27 2018, 06:34 AM) *

"as in KW" - 20 times. No, if we want to play KW, we install KW and play it.
There`s a reason, espacily with the eco, why people prefer TW to KW since 10 years. With the eco changes you`ll destroy it - and with the unoffical patch you will make same chaos like in KW and will split one time the community.

i`ve nothing against an offical patch from EA, but not that which will bring everything into chaos.

Right, first of all, *WRONG* people prefer KW over TW, as seen by every single statistic, YouTube output and player count.

Luva is making a patch to imrpove the game, sure he might have made a couple incorrect adjustments but that can simply be repeated back to him in testing and adjusted. Also this won't be like playing kw.. he's mostly just fixed things and removed a few bugs, which KW has fixed. Things like the insta teleport shock troopers without a retarded 3 sec delay, yet when it comes to engineers no delay is a good thing.. 1.09 is a buggy patch and the community will die.

Start using a patch that fixes the game and I promise this game will see more activity.

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# 12Claymore92 Dec 27 2018, 15:12 PM
Actually, nevermind. Can't be bothered discussing things with a guy who said even with 1.10 changes "TW < KW". Interesting this is though how 99% of the patch supporters are "KW > TW 1.10" guys.

Better spend your time removing super saiyan units from KW: "oh, big unit, takes up half of my screen but does not add anything to the game except for noobifying it, cool".

This post has been edited by Claymore92: Dec 27 2018, 15:23 PM

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# 13Whitey Dec 27 2018, 16:31 PM
QUOTE(Claymore92 @ Dec 27 2018, 15:12 PM) *

Actually, nevermind. Can't be bothered discussing things with a guy who said even with 1.10 changes "TW < KW". Interesting this is though how 99% of the patch supporters are "KW > TW 1.10" guys.

Better spend your time removing super saiyan units from KW: "oh, big unit, takes up half of my screen but does not add anything to the game except for noobifying it, cool".

Huh?

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# 14~AngelOfDeath~ Dec 27 2018, 23:42 PM
Some changes included in Kane's Wrath aren't actually that bad. If it were possible to connect something special from TW and KW then we would get the perfect game which would make it awesome place for every single one from those two communities to play.

I don't mind those little balance changes as long as it makes sense and doesn't break economy too much.

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# 15Technique Dec 30 2018, 15:41 PM
This version of Barstow is a lot more fun as well.

Blue in mid instead of a spike, still constantly fight over it but much less early gambling.


Attached File(s)
Attached File thisbarstowmuchbetter.CNC3Replay
Size: 473.74k
Number of downloads: 6
Player Name Side Team
Training^Acc 0
Technique* 4



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# 16Claymore92 Dec 30 2018, 18:11 PM
Technique is right regarding his claim that Barstow with dry blue field on middle plateau is superior to Barstow with a spike on the middle plateau.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, most people will still prefer classic Barstow and have 99% of games decided in first 40 seconds.

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# 17AdamLallana Apr 21 2019, 19:30 PM
Should've started with purely bug fixes. Then you can push some small balance changes down the line for future patching. People are stubborn and don't like big change lol. I like the idea of this mod, but it's too much at once.

Luva you should split it into two parts:

One with bug fixes and minor tweaks (like unit ability delays and target priority for units that are not consistent with the standard). The other with more progressive gameplay changes .

I'd certainly to have these bug fixes as standard. And I'd be willing to try the other changes.

This post has been edited by AdamLallana: Apr 21 2019, 19:37 PM

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# 18AdamLallana Apr 21 2019, 19:40 PM
And I couldn't care less if these fixes are taken from kw. If they are good they are good. It's irrelevant if KW was the inspiration or not. KW may have completely changed the gameplay but it also fixed quiet a few bugs especially with all the community patches.

I fir one would love to see a TW community patch.

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# 19Claymore92 Apr 22 2019, 14:36 PM
I think this topic should be unpinned so that it shows up on main C&C page when new comments are added since this is a topic that needs to be discussed.

I do agree with Adam that it should have started as a bug only thing; I have been telling that Luvaskot for a long time. However, I disagree with splitting it into two parts. The less splits the better.

I am also against changes in unit ability delays since those things are not bugs and honestly, they are fine the way they are in my opinion and require way more skill than in KW since you have to anticipate enemy unit movement and adjust the use of your unit abilities accordingly. In KW it's just "oh Disints chasing me, let's put a mine field with that APC to kill them".

Also, it is very important if they were taken from KW Adam because, if we're taking numbers, unit models etc. from KW - why not simply play KW instead if it's better? Or why not remove base creep from TW, and make all prices as in KW if KW is the standard?

KW has been noobified with things like smaller turn cycles for tanks or Devourer tanks that shoot and fire and we should not be adapting those things into TW. That is why simply copying from KW is a bad move. Just because something is in KW, does not mean it should be there or that it is a good idea. KW is not the standard we should be looking to achieve.

TW would only needs a few little fixes like:
- Refinery bug fix;
- some experience bug fixes (for example, destroy Ox Transport or Caryall with Stealth Tank or Attack Bike - congrulations, your unit is heroic);
- Tripod crush fix;
- maybe some minor, really minor changes to Harvester health or some other things.

Unfortunately, 99% of TW players, noobs as well as high level players, have an "EA 1.09 forever or nothing" attitude, so aforementioned things cannot even be tested (people threatening to leave if I try to promote these things into public testing). That is why in 2019 we still host tournaments on crap maps like Tournament Dustbowl and not the no-contested-spike-variant of it, just as an example.

It is EA 1.09 or nothing here.

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# 20Whitey Apr 22 2019, 19:13 PM
Just adding new maps is not sufficient in my opinion. I honestly believe that with bug fixes and the introduction of the planned 1.10 in the places EA had set in stone and then community discussion over the changes left with an asterisk, would be beneficial. I think Adam got it right there, people are just a little stubborn over change, which is to be expected.

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