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Posted by: JuanRing Mar 12 2007, 21:55 PM

This is the discussion thread for Thorin's http://www.gamereplays.org/riseofthewitchking/portals.php?show=page&name=leadership_guide!

Posted by: avenger81 Mar 12 2007, 22:03 PM

this is brilliant and clears everything up. One thing though, the cap at 75% armour bonus, does that include defensive stance or is it 75%+defensive stance bounce

Edit; just realised it is 75% inc. stance useage

Posted by: Mr. Scetch Mar 12 2007, 22:10 PM

Very nice guide

Posted by: Iss Mar 12 2007, 22:23 PM

Just one question, how long did this take.

Very good guide mate.

Posted by: DarkMorgulKing Mar 12 2007, 22:33 PM

Mostly correct Only some wording issues, and debuffs do not stack, contrary to what I told you last.

Posted by: avenger81 Mar 12 2007, 22:37 PM

so effectively if u have morgamir and the witch king, then it is better to lead ur army with the wk since he will come into contact with the enemy first and has a higher debuff than morgamir?

Posted by: Megacap Mar 12 2007, 23:24 PM

Interesting Guide, But can you back it up with inis? Btw, DarkMorgulKing change your opinion about stacking so much, it's not even fun

Posted by: Thoon Mar 12 2007, 23:33 PM

Nice one Thorin

Posted by: DarkMorgulKing Mar 13 2007, 02:12 AM

yes

Posted by: Curs3d Mar 13 2007, 03:10 AM

good job Thorin

Posted by: RhoDaZZ Mar 13 2007, 10:15 AM

Great guide once again.

Posted by: Thorin^ Mar 13 2007, 12:13 PM

Thnx guys

Ah darn, now I don't get it anymore, how come debuffs don't stack now? You confuse me too much

Posted by: DarkMorgulKing Mar 13 2007, 14:39 PM

Debuffs cancel each other to only allow one to affect units at once

Posted by: urukbane117 Mar 13 2007, 22:51 PM

Pro tip ! Nice job Thorin!

Posted by: Haldir91 Mar 14 2007, 01:53 AM

Nice guide M8 !!

Posted by: Nerdy Nasgul Mar 14 2007, 16:50 PM

Gr8 guide Thorin

Posted by: menslordsking Mar 14 2007, 22:36 PM

Gandalf has LD ???!??!!?!? wait Gandalf doesnt even give LD as far as i know.

Posted by: Thorin^ Mar 15 2007, 07:34 AM

Ow lol, shouldn't play bfme1 so much Thnx for noticing

Posted by: Legend^ May 4 2007, 07:52 AM

lol Thorin^

Posted by: cornelisprul Jul 23 2007, 01:35 AM

Really great guide !

Perfect job mate....but I think I have to read it twice, maybey tripple, cause for a dutchy this is really hard and difficult english to understand...But Thorin, maybey you can explain me a little in dutch....

Questions have risen to much...maybey somebody's legible and willing to help out a hand with them overhere...

- RC/WC, the standard spell of each race, can it be used on the giant rock throwing munster, if e.g. summoned by Angmar ?

- And how is that with sorceror...will there rain of bodys or there wells of soul, any power they have, will it notice any affect by RC/WC ?
(btw has somebody ever seen a lvl 5 horde of sorceror, and if somebody has, what advantage(s) will they get if you are lucky enough to raise them till lvl 5?)

- Can wights born threw sorceror or by karsh be influenced RC ?

- And last one when you summon the Shade of the Wolf, he can buff hisself by eatin, if you rc him after doin that, do hise powers rise with the same % again then ?

Posted by: StiLL SmoKin^ Aug 10 2007, 14:21 PM

i also have some questions for you Thorin:

Does warchant and Tainted Land Stack?

Does 2 eye of Saurons Stack?

Does Eye of Sauron and Rally call stack?

I read recently that Rally call and Theoden's Leadership stack (Totd), so does rally call stack with ALL leaderships (even though in game specifically says "does not stack"?

There were others, but I cant think of them right now, Ill edit this post and get back to you on those.

EDIT: Does Eye of Sauron + Howl (warg riders) stack? Does Warchant and Howl Stack?
EDIT#2: In Patch 2.02 Thread, you mentioned (thorin) that debuffs do not affect Rally Call? So your saying that Crebain and Bats do not affect Units when they have rally call?

Thanks in advance for the response

P.S. Should i apologize for the bump if im asking RELAVENT questions?

Posted by: NightBane Aug 10 2007, 14:43 PM

LOL Major Bump

Posted by: Jammyelf Aug 10 2007, 14:51 PM

doesnt really matter if it is bumped tbh aslong as the bumping post is useful and not spam or within a spam topic. This guide is timeless and doesnt matter how many times its bumped as long as the posts are useful imo

Posted by: NightBane Aug 10 2007, 16:26 PM

U say as if I meant it in a bad way jammy

Posted by: ThEoL Aug 10 2007, 17:11 PM

Very nice guide Thorin^.

Posted by: Thorin^ Aug 11 2007, 07:37 AM

Warchant and Tainted Land don't stack as they're both buffs, 2 Eye of Saurons definately do not stack as two of the same things never ever stack. Eye of Sauron does stack with Rally Call, Rally Call stacks with everything but another Rally Call as it's a spell. Spells stack with everything but another spell of the same sort like RC with RC or Darkness with Darkness. Eye of Sauron + Howl stacks as Eye does not cancel buffs, the only LD that doesn't, and Howl is a buff. Warchant does not stack with Howl, same case as with TL.

About debuffs not affecting Rally Call or spells, they do not cancel them. By that I mean the buff gained from Rally Call does not disappear completely, but the debuff still deducts stats. So if you use WC and then a debuff is used on you, your stats will be 50%/50% at first and then -25%/-25%. But if you use RC, it'll be 50%/50% at first and then 25%/25% as 50% - 25% = 25% ofc.

And you can always bump as long as the post is meaningful and not a spam post

Posted by: StiLL SmoKin^ Aug 12 2007, 10:13 AM

Thorin you are amazing , that summed up my questions PERFECTLY

Posted by: MonsterXXL Aug 12 2007, 20:35 PM

Wow, this is really awsome. Can i buy you a cookie?

Posted by: Thorin^ Aug 13 2007, 10:20 AM

Chocolate plz

Posted by: Master X Aug 13 2007, 13:55 PM

thanks Thorin^ thats really help alot

i have 3 questions

1- if i put RC and WC in one unit they stack together ?

2-is there any 3 thing stack together , lets say RC + WC + BW LD ?

3- can u till me whats the LD , buffs and spells ?
i mean RC is LD and WC is buff and TL is .... etc

Posted by: Thorin^ Aug 13 2007, 16:30 PM

1) Yes, they do stack
2) 3 things can stack yes, even 4 or 5+ in 2vs2s. But the BW's LD cancels buffs, like WC, so WC + BW LD + RC won't stack. Mighty Rage (Spell) + RC (Spell) + LD + Darkness (Spell) + Horde bonus (Spell) all stacks up to +250% damage and +75% armor (it would be +250% armor, but the armor cap = 75%)

3) Updating the guide now

Posted by: Master X Aug 13 2007, 17:54 PM

oh Thorin^ your the best thanks

btw is there cap for damage ?
or it still stack to infinite ....

Posted by: Thorin^ Aug 13 2007, 18:50 PM

It's infinite, but you'll rarely ever get to +300%, which is 4x more damage and is the counterpart of +75% armor, 4x more health effectively and that last one is so much easier to get.

Updated btw, it shows all the stats each buff gives, the duration and how everything exactly stacks

Posted by: ThEoL Aug 13 2007, 19:47 PM

You are a real pr0 Thorin^

Posted by: Excalibur1 Aug 13 2007, 19:57 PM

Really nice Good job

Posted by: rayqourz Dec 19 2007, 17:23 PM

try changing the white text into another color as its very hard, if not impossible to read, whit the new white skin

Posted by: -Thorin Dec 21 2007, 21:28 PM

There, done

Posted by: ChenowethFactor Dec 22 2007, 00:02 AM

I just glanced over this, and a few things:

1) Hwaldar's leadership in 2.01 is 20% damage and 75% armor
2) Gandalf has no leadership in 2.01, listed or unlisted. I believe this is also the case in 2.00.
3) It takes a 400% damage bonus to cancel out a 75% armor bonus. Your math is wrong. 1*4*.25 = 1 (As with the item below, I guess +300% is the same...it's just that it's not consistent with the topology of the game's multiplicative bonuses)
4) Industry/Dwarven Riches is a 300% production bonus. (I guess this is the same at +200%, so nevermind on this one)

Posted by: -Thorin Dec 22 2007, 10:36 AM

1) I listed the armor boni as they really are, because that matters with stance. +80% armor and aggressive stance for pikemen means +55% armor and +75% armor + aggressive stance for pikemen is +50% armor. If I were to list the Hwaldar Leadership as +75% armor, I would be listing it wrongly.

2) Is that still in there? I thought I removed that ages ago. Well, thanks for mentioning it anyway

3) +300% is more understandable for the members; the ini files list damage as a multiplicative bonus, meaning you start at 100%, but the members here are used to think of no damage boni meaning +0% damage.

Posted by: LordJhredmo Feb 4 2008, 06:56 AM

I dunno if this was answered, for sure, but how do leaderships work, when two are present in an area? Which dominates? The lesser or the greater or how is it determined which dominated?

Thanks.
-Evix Jhredmo

Posted by: WhisperofDeath Jun 23 2010, 15:39 PM

does theoden's gc give +99% armor? And does it have +100% damage bonus?
how does rogash's rage of the north give +150% armor?

Posted by: Forlong Jun 23 2010, 17:05 PM

Theoden's GC gives 99% armor yes, but it's capped at 75%. 99% just protects you from a debuff, say stack Crebain on GC and you are at 99-25 = 74% armor. It does have +100% damage yes.

Rage of the North gives 50% armor (takes half damage).

Posted by: WhisperofDeath Jun 24 2010, 13:13 PM

It's from Leadership & Buffing Guide

•Glorfindel's Starlight (30s)
-- Is canceled by player's own Leadership and enemy debuffs.

•Rogash's Rage of the North (60s)
-- gives a bonus of +100% damage and +150% armor to Rogash.

•Sharku's Man Eater (20s)

Posted by: Feanor Jun 24 2010, 22:12 PM

Armor is capped at +75% (which means 75% of the damage is absorbed). +100% armor would mean invincibility (because 100% damage absorbing means 0 damage) so it's capped at +75%.


I thought Starlight was a spell and therefore cannot be cancelled.

Posted by: Forlong Jun 25 2010, 03:26 AM

Actually I read it wrong, it is 150% armor, the guide is correct. It is still capped at 75% though so there's actually no difference at all between that and 75% armor.


Starlight is a Buff in 2.01. Unlike most other Buffs it will be canceled by most (but not all) Leaderships.

Posted by: Feanor Jun 25 2010, 05:47 AM

Strange.

Posted by: KeNny` Aug 3 2010, 22:56 PM

some questions

how is it possible to reach 1418,75% damage bonus? ^^
would be really fun to see one single bat owning a fort with that.

and: do glorious charge, rc (i think these 2 do) and kodas lvl 7 power all 3 stack together and in how much damage bonus would this end up?
are there even more ways (in 2v2 or so) to buff kodas?

Posted by: Thorin Aug 4 2010, 00:03 AM

If you are Men of the West and you have a Goblin or Mordor ally, you can stack Glorious Charge, Rallying Call, Darkness, War Chant, Leadership and aggressive stance on cavalry to give them +1419% damage and +75% armor.

Those three you mentioned (Glorious Charge, Rallying Call and the Knights of Dol Amroth's Glorious Charge) stack for Knights of Dol Amroth and they would give them a bonus of +575% damage and +75% armor.

Other than Rallying Call and Glorious Charge, nothing really affects them I'm afraid. That's good, because +575% damage is already frighteningly strong for Knights of Dol Amroth. One horde would destroy a Fortress in 3 hits with that bonus.

Posted by: KeNny` Aug 4 2010, 11:35 AM

wow have to try that all out
thank you

Posted by: HuggleB Aug 4 2010, 20:35 PM

That gotta be the most OP thing in the whole game rofl, they probably 1 hit gimli...

Posted by: Thorin Aug 4 2010, 21:24 PM

If you can get all that together, he deserves to lose.

Posted by: HuggleB Aug 4 2010, 21:44 PM

So true

Posted by: Poero Aug 4 2010, 21:50 PM

How big buffs Black riders can get..? We made GC, RC, LD and Darkness with Korva once. Fort down in seconds. (Thought everything didnt affect ofc..) But How much you can get attack bonus to BR.

Posted by: HuggleB Aug 4 2010, 21:53 PM

Ralley call and GC.

I seriously doubt any other buffs/spells will work on them. Never gotten any effect on anything else...

PS: You GCED a mumakill yet?

Posted by: Poero Aug 4 2010, 22:01 PM

Under work so far, wasnt lucky with MUs in stone today. We will try when right factions come.

*Maybe in Staff vs Members tourna, could be good chance for trying.

But we DID won 3vs1 against Medium.

Posted by: Korvasomali Aug 5 2010, 11:27 AM

And we WON it! All of us -95 handi exept medium ofc