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Posted by: sjceran Nov 24 2008, 00:39 AM

Hey guys, what's up. First of all, let's get to know each other. I am Stefan, i'm 18, and I am here to teach you guys how to play CoH. I am lv 11, although I can easily get 12, and probably 13, but I simply don't have much time to play anymore. Anyway, please state your goals as a mentee, and I will do my best to help you two achieve them. In order for this program to yield the best results, I need you guys to post replays, both wins and losses, as well as ask questions frequently.

Now I am in all AP courses so my time is limited and varied. I will try my best to post as often as I can, but please don't get angry if I don't write a review of a replay or respond to a question within one hour. Usually I will respond within a day's time.

sjceran

Posted by: chriskaz Nov 24 2008, 02:07 AM

Hi Guys,

First of all, sjceran thaks for mentoring!! My name is Chris, I'm 37 and Coh is basically the 2nd RTS I've ever played. The first was SC, but I never played that online. SO, I'm pretty new to the RTS way of thinking and playing, especially when you have to work so fast to manage units all over the map. As a result I have pretty poor micro and lose units needlessly. I really need help in reading my opponent and appropriate counters, as my play is mostly reactive without much anticipation.

I pretty much only play vCoH factions, am lvl 7 and under .500 with both . I find I can beat most players lower than me or at my level, but get absolutely crushed by lvl9s or higher. I play maybe 4 nights a week, after 9-9:30 EST after the kid (and wife) go to sleep, so I don't expect a quick turnaround with replays or replies.

I'll post a replay of my most recent game, which was probably one of the best games I've played recently. My relic acct name is: DerTeufel

Thanks again, I appreciate you spending your time and look forward to learning form you!

Chris

P.S. MrN1ce9uy, if possible maybe we can try to play each other so sjceran won't have to watch so many replays....


Attached File(s)

	1122_win_vs_pe.rec
	Size: 562.94k
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Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Nov 24 2008, 04:45 AM

Watsup guys,

My name is John I am 18 and I am currently awaiting leaving for basic training in the USAF.(Hopefully it won't be too much longer, I've been waiting for months ) I play mostly strategy/war games. I actually haven't even touched CoH in about a week and a half (been playing 14-day free trial of WWII Online ), but now that I have a mentor I will be playing as much as possible Thanks sjceran!

I am lvl 7 with Wehr which is my favorite army. (I did get to lvl 8 about 3 or 4 games ago, but then I lost the very next game and it put me back at lvl 7) I'm lvl 6 with PE(which is my second favorite army) and I don't really play with allies much but I am willing to play and learn with them. And chriskaz, that sounds good I'm up for playing against you, just let me know before hand(like the day before or each morning) when you are planning on playing and I will most likely be able to be online then.

My goal is to gain experience and knowledge in-game to where I can make it past lvl 10. Or better yet my goal is to learn everything you know about CoH sjceran

I have several replays already of me losing and winning I'll go look at them and maybe post them in a bit.

Edit* Okay I got some replays. Don't ask me what I was thinking in the jagdisk replay lol I had complete control so I thought, but then I just stopped attacking for some reason and started playing defensively which ended in me losing.

And the one with Warz, lol I was just kinda making that up as I went. It wasn't planned out like that but I skipped T1 and went straight to T2. It actually worked out well but I just couldn't execute a successful attack.

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Posted by: sjceran Nov 24 2008, 20:39 PM

Hey guys, nice to meet you

Chris and John, that would be great if you two could play each other and post the relays, that would deal with 2 items at once. I will try to get you the replays reviewed by Wednesday. I usually do a thorough review, but I focus on the main points that lost you the game. lol but if there are any major flaws I will just point them out

Add me to your friends list, my main is sjceran. My smurfs are secret I haven't been on RO for a while, but I will try to get on as often as possible for you two.

(I have the worst connection in all of the community, so it limits my playing time. Funny story about my connection, I once had a 17-0 smurf, lv 9 ~900 position and I was playing some lv 5 guy. It was an easy win on ango but my connection went out and I lost my streak, and fell to lv 8 and ~1900 )

Now for replays, try to limit your posts to games where you lost or won by a narrow margin. If you simply lost because of a noticable error, like building the wrong building, you played a lv 20, or something along those lines, don't post, unless it is funny
I will try to find some of my old replays to give you examples. (I don't have many left because I cleared out most of my old files)

I will try to help you guys out to the best of my ability. Lv 7-9 is the tipping point, or the hurdle for most CoH players. Once we get past that we will be golden.

Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Nov 25 2008, 02:03 AM

Sounds great

I'm fixing to log on to RO and will be probably be on and off up until later tonight.

Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Nov 25 2008, 05:48 AM

So me and chriskaz played a couple matches tonight, we decided the first wasn't worth posting because there were way to many obvious mistakes on chriskaz part

But we finally got a good game that we can post up so that you can review it

I'm not too proud of this one but it'll do But anyways have a look and tell us what you think.

*Edit: The first game we played everything was going smooth for me and I was more relaxed, but the second game I made a few mistakes and I was on the edge of my seat from the very beginning lol Which caused me to do a bit of irrational thinking(happens to me often). But that just made me realize how different each game can play out.

	goodgame.rec
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Posted by: chriskaz Nov 25 2008, 13:37 PM

OUCH, thanks MRN1ce9uy

At least I got some revenge, although barely. I think you could have won it if you had harassed and capped the lefthand side some more, as I was hurting for MP trying to hold that bottom-left VP.

I'll try to be on again tonite, but I can never gaurantee something doesn't come up (like the wife asking me to do something

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Nov 26 2008, 00:07 AM

Ok guys I watched your replay where you played each other. I have all of the notes down, I just need to write it up. I will have it by tomorrow, since it was a fairly large write up There are a few big concepts we have to get down for you guys to reach higher levels. Overall you guys played well, but there were significant mistakes, on both sides, which prevented either one of you from receiving a quick win.

I have a slightly different setup than your other reviews. I am doing a play-by-play of both of your playstyles. I watched the replay twice, once for each side, so I could get every good and bad move for both of you guys.

Here is the review

---John---
0:50- good capping order
3:50- Lost Volks squad. This could have easily been gg vs a high rank player. Never let a major unit die within the first 20 minutes if you can.
5:40- Saw the engie squad make a mine, ran into it. Try to avoid that and get a minesweeper.
6:45- Pio should be capping. Becareful, that could be the difference between a win and a loss if it happens a lot.
7:40- Let a nearly dead riflesquad escape. Hunt them down with your volks.
***Game Changing Moment***
**10:20- Retreat that mg squad. It was flanked and naded, then you lost the mg Once you see a flank coming, pull back or retreat.
*Under the circumstances of that game, a med bunker would have really helped you. Ango is a small map, so the medics have a seemingly larger range. You lost a lot of units and manpower early game, which would have yielded at least 2 gren squads. If you go t2, a med bunker should be up before 10 minutes.
*Against BARs you should get vet 2 infantry. It will really help you against the BARs offensive power.
11:50- Pick a squad. You should have engaged the 2 flame engies rather than the full health BAR riflemen. The more units you can kill the better.
13:15- retreat the whole group from the M8. You almost lost a full grenadier squad for nothing. It is better to retreat, keep the manpower, and then come back and attack.
14:00- Crawl bug with volks squad. To fix that, constantly right-click near the squad until they stand up.
15:00- the mortar is not a frontline unit. Keep it at range, behind the frontlines to keep it safe.
15:30- That is why you cannot blob, so to speak. You need to keep units spaced out so one arty round won't take out 8 units. In that situation, you should have anticipated an arty shot or a strafe run. Watch for smoke!!! When you see it retreat.
16:35- Retreat the mg from the building. It was an unnecessary loss, which affected the later game.
17:00- Get T4 out by now, floating 150 fuel!!! By 20 minutes, a good T2 strat will have a P4 or ostwind out wreaking havoc.
18:00- I am sorry, but that was the worst possible flak position possible.
***By now you should have made a spare squad (pio, volks, or gren) to capture the left side. don't expect to capture the whole side, but you do need to take as much territory as you can.
19:48- Repair the bunker...oh wait, the flak destroyed it
21:00- Good idea to clear the hedges, but once the enemies come in, stop auto-firing. I am not sure whether it was beneficial to clear the hedges tbh. You allowed a larger firing arc, but you also allowed Chris to attack with a larger battefield, rather than being channeled between the hedges.
23:20- get that motorbike moving!
24:00- collect the scattered ammo, such as schrecks and mortars.
25:00- Be sure to listen for artillery. Once you hear it keep your units moving.
27:00- Finally T4 It was too late to make a difference though.
***Possible chance for a win***
The last 13 minutes of the game were close. I thought you were going to be able to win, or at least make it closer. Since Chris had a lot of infantry, and only 1 sherman, an ostwind along with the 2 P4's would have been a great combo. You should have built a counter sniper, or at least tried to kill his Howitzer. That howie really hurt your units. Watch your tank micro. You barged into his base without scouting. You should have used the P4's to push foward, or at least cap the left side.
40:00- Bunker problem again Don't build in front of the flak.

Overall, not capping the left side, unit losses, late t4, lack of early veterency, and some obvious mistakes (flak 88 placement) cost you the game.







___Chris___
1:00 awkward capping order. I will give you some examples of more efficient CO's soon.
3:15- Get that cut-off sooner. You have a rifle squad coming so you don't have to wait.
3:50- Focus fire!! Select all of your rifles to attack one squad, therefore they will fall down in seconds rather than spreading the damage across both squads.
4:45- once you place a mine try to move your engie squad asap. Otherwise you may give away the position.
5:00- nice cap
7:15- Pull that riflesquad back!! Losing a riflesquad early is a game changer.
8:33- Micro issue. Don't let that rifle squad follow the retreating squad. You lost some manpower and time from a simple mistake.
9:40- I wasn't sure whether you used supressing fire or it was just a lucky supression. If it was SF, that was a waste of munitions. The best time to use SF is against a blob, or while the riflesquad is in a building.
11:08- watch the flame engies
11:57- very nice grenade
15:30- you lost a unit, but balanced it out with a very good arty shot.
***Mid-game***
At this point you should start a TD, or get the first upgrade from the Supply Depot. I noticed you said that you were having some manpower problems at the end, you should have purchased the Supply Depot upgrade to alleviate some of the upkeep costs. Be sure to replace lost units, like rifle squads or engie squads too.
16:48- Be sure to kite your M8. You lost the M8 to small arms fire, which could have easily been prevented by pulling back your M8.
18:30- nice to see the sniper
22:00 another good arty shot
24:00- Repair that M8 so it can be put to use. At this point you had about 500 munitions so you could do a little trick I like to do. You should have gone into John's base with the M8 to scout what he is building, but also plant M8 mines in the doorways of the buildings. For example, planting a mine in front of a Wehr T4 building would definitely damage the engine of whatever tank came out.
26:40- pull that sherman back faster. It cannot stand up against a flak and a shreck squad.
30:00- this is what you have to be careful of during a match. You almost let the game slip. If you were playing a lv 10+ the game would have turned. You started to get a little sloppy and lost a bunch of units.
**If you buy the ranger upgrade get in close, and I mean right next to the enemy squads, for the best results.
35:00 Don't arty your base
36:00- Once again, pull back that sherman quicker. It got that one P4, but it will not take out the other head on.
38:00- try to repair the AT guns when you have a chance. It is a lot cheaper than building a new one.
39:48- Lost a ranger squad.

Overall, a strong start, lots of resources, nice mine usage, all tiers used, and arty gave you the win. Be sure to get the supply depot upgrade next time, it really does help your manpower. Watch your sherman micro, and get damaged vehicles repaired.

I will be going over the basic concepts of playing CoH, for both factions tomorrow. I am a sick at the moment so I am a bit tired, so sorry for any gramatical or spelling errors

GG to both of you, though. When my internet stops sucking, I will try to get on RO to play some games with you guys.

Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Nov 26 2008, 01:09 AM

Wow, nice review man

I kinda noticed most of my mistakes after watching the replay myself. I also didn't realize that he was so low on units and MP in the late-game. I kept from attacking because I feared I didn't have enough units to take out what he had on the field.

I do have some questions though, first I would like to ask what type of places are good spots for 88's? Maybe further back behind my defenses?

Posted by: sjceran Nov 26 2008, 01:39 AM

You had a good spot for the flak, but you built the bunker first. Placing the flak right behind the bunker is not the best idea. In that case I would have put the 88 to the left of the bunker, so it would be able to fire straight without a problem. If you didn't have the bunker in front of the flak, it would have been a great spot.

Honestly, I think you would have been better off with a terror doctrine for the KT choice rather than defensive. You did not have a early game bunker so the defensive operations wasn't too beneficial.

But a good place to place a flak is in a wide open area with a large firing arc.

Posted by: chriskaz Nov 26 2008, 03:33 AM

Awesome review! Thanks - extremely helpful. Iive always had trouble with vehicle micro, and therefore I tend to lose games inthe mid-game period.

ALso you pointed oiut two things I tend not to think about: 1) I didn't even think to get the SD upgrade, that definitely would of helped! and 2) using M8 mines always slips my mind

I have a stupid question about focus fire. I tend to drag-select my 2-3 squads and then click on the squad I want them to target, but I'm not sure this always works. Do you have to tell each squad individually which one to fire at?

Posted by: sjceran Nov 26 2008, 15:58 PM

That is a good question. Usually you can drag click multiple squads and then click on the squad you want to kill. The problem with that is sometimes they run out of cover. If my units are blobbed together I will just drag select all of them and fire on one squad. If my units are fairly far apart, i will just click each squad individually, but they will all fire on the same target. Just be sure not to lose any squads.



**Note: Happy Thanksgiving guys. Enjoy tomorrow, but if you guys want, I think I will be on a good prtion of tomorrow. Probably from 10-5 eastern I will be off and on RO, so perhaps we can play a few matches together.

Edit: Here is the game John and I played today. Since you are a more US based player, this will help you out chris. Now I wasn't going all out, i was mainly testing your micro and decision making abilities to get a better feel of how your playstyle works and what needs to be improved.

Chris, you see once I got the SD upgrade i was floating tons of manpower towards the end

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Posted by: chriskaz Nov 27 2008, 00:17 AM

Thanks Stefan. Happy Thanksgiving to you guys also!!!
I won't be able to be on RO tomorrow until late in the evening as usual, and I'll be away for the weekend until Sunday.

I'm also interested in learning to play Wehr (and to a lesser extent PE) better. I end up playing US more because it seems more people choose Axis and I always try to get the quickest automatch by choosing the side with less people.

*edit: I watched the replay of you and mrniceguy, and thought I'd mention one or two things I would have done differently if I were mrniceguy so I can see if my thinking/analysis is on the right track. One big thing I think would have helped was to build a pak right after his first gren squad instead of going with the mortar. He might have been able to take out the M8 earlier...
Another thing would have been to get another MG mid-game to try to suppress your rifles so his 3-4 squads of volks & grens could take on the remaining squads or force a retreat. THe problem with this is that you had a sherman by this point, but it still might have given him some breathing room to get a couple shreck shots off (plus the pak). Not sure what else, these two things might have reduced his reinforce costs, and allowed him to take a little more of the map and dig in when you retreated. Does this sound like a reasonable analysis? If not, I'm in worse shape than I thought

Posted by: chriskaz Nov 28 2008, 05:46 AM

Hey sjceran,

Two more replays of games between Mrniceguy and I. One good game, one not so good (for me) where I simply lost too many squads needlessly - especially an early volks.

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving! As I mentioned before, I'll be away for the weekend, so no rush for replay reviews...

Thanks once again for your mentoring help!




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	1127_ck_vs_mrniceguy.rec
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Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Nov 28 2008, 21:38 PM

Watsup guys,

Yeah I'm not too proud of those two replays either . But I just got dun playing an automatch game and it really sucked lol. I say that because this PE player just pulled a cheap move when I went WSC start and rushed my base with his IHT and a couple gren squads which left me with no way of defending my own base. The only way I think I could have prevented it is by placing more mines around my base entrances. Anyways heres the replay along with a couple other of me playing as US. You don't have to review them Stefan I would just like you to watch them.

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Posted by: sjceran Nov 29 2008, 14:59 PM

That is a solid analysis The only problem with the mg is that I am great at flanking


I did thank you, stuffing ftw. I hope both of you had a great thanksgiving also. I will be really busy this weekend so I am aiming for Tuesday for the reviews


I will review at least one, but thank you If I see you on RO I will whisper you the review, otherwise I will just post them here.

Sorry guys, I am falling a bit behind on the reviews. I was going to do it yesterday but I ended up doing 8 hours of yard work I have the first 3 reviewed, I just need to type it up. I am not at my normal computer though so I will hopefully get them typed up by tonight.

But I think I need to start giving you some lessons on CoH playing for all armies, to help you guys out a bit more.

Posted by: chriskaz Nov 30 2008, 19:13 PM

Hi Stefan, no need to apologize, we are all busy. I have yardwork that absolutely needs to be done today - and its pouring outside . I'd like to play you sometime also, but with work and the kid, I am not able to get online until between 9:30 & 10pm. Any way this would work for you sometime? I got crushed last week by a lvl13 wehr on Beau, which I thought was supposed to be a tough map for wehr



Even going with a standard rifle start, this is diffcult to stop. I've only beaten this rush once, and that was by basically capping the rest of the map and holding out for rangers or airborne. You end up with a lot of MP. I just kept pumping out rifles and sent them off capping. Once I had hte map, I retreated them all and stuck them in my HQ. Maybe this would have worked with MGs, build a couple, stick them in your HQ and the IHT won't last long. Once it goes down it's gg because he has so little of the map and resources.

Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Dec 1 2008, 03:54 AM

Yeah I've been really busy the past few days also. I haven't even logged onto RO since Friday. But I'm planning on getting on tomorrow night hopefully.

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 1 2008, 05:35 AM

Hey Guys,
Is there some new American strat I don't know about? I lost 2/3 matches today as wehr against essentially the same strat. Starts with 3-4 engies and WSC and gets like 2-3 MGs. This gets them map control, and they get a mortar followed by rangers. It's hard once the MGs are setup to flank them as wehr. Barracks follows and rifles+rangers clean up what little fo the map you have. The rest of the games were me just trying to hold on vs lots of arty barrages....
I tried defensive, terror and blitz, only defensive worked, but barely. In both losses, I skipped T3 and went for tanks, but betwen the rangers and AT guns, it didn't help much.
So essentially, sjceran, how does one beat a WSC start followed by rifles by a decent player??

*edit: I think I figured it out - T3-blitz seems like it would work best by using a couple pumas....

Posted by: sjceran Dec 1 2008, 17:08 PM

Well, t3 would definitely work, all you need to do is avoid those rangers and AT guns. If you skip straight to t4, an Ostwind with P4 support would do wonders. But in reality, the limited resources would probably force you to go a T1+T2 route. For that, you simply need to make a sniper, or two, a mine sweeper pioneer squad, 1 volks squad, 1-2 mg squads, then get a mortar and gren squads.

If you have good flanking skills, get a flame pioneer squad, two if you could, with a volks squad and execute a flank similar to a US riflemen+ flame engie flank

As far as I know, it seems to be a spin off of the 4Es strategy. A lot of people have been trying to prove that a wsc start works in the strat forums. It does work, but you take a risk with that start which is much greater than a Barracks start.

BTW, do you have the replays of that?


I would if I could, but my internet literally goes off everyday at 4:50 pm. It is the most annoying thing in the world and I don't know why. Occasionally it will go on around 6-7, but it is almost always off by 9. The wireless network that was unsecured, which I use to use to go on late night, became secure so I really have no way to get on. I will try my best to get on but it isn't in my control


Well, as stated above, going wsc is a huge risk and really doesn't work well. I always go rifles since they are so versatile. This happened to me before, a lot in the 2.201 patch when HT's were OP. I am going to watch the replay and give you a review.

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 2 2008, 02:06 AM

No problem. I'm taking a few days off in a couple weeks to work on the house, so I'm sure I can spare some time to play a few games

Attached is a replay of the last game I played against the WSC start. Not my best game by far, and about halfway through I got frustrated and half gave up. I seem to have a much more difficult time with WSC starts than with rifles - especially on maps like semois!


Attached File(s)

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Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Dec 4 2008, 22:38 PM

Watsup, just letting you guys know I played VixenX today in an automatch Don't ask how I got matched up with him bc I have no idea . But I didn't do that bad. Anyways here's the replay.

*Edit: Oh yeah, the first half was pretty good, but the last half sucked bc I couldn't call in engies to repair my base


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Posted by: chriskaz Dec 5 2008, 02:59 AM

Hey sjceran,

So MrN1ce9uy beat me 3 times yesterday in almost identical games. ALl 3 times, his rifles just ate me up. It seems they can waltz right up to an MG and throw a grenade regardless of whether they are suppressed or not (sometimes they weren't suppressed at all) . Having 1-2 volks squads there made no difference vs BARed rifles. So, I'd like to know what is the best way to counter the upgraded rifle swarm (besides my obvious mistakes of not avioding grenades well enough). One mistake I did make in the game I will post was to get a pak when it wasn't needed (he had upgraded BARs) yet.

Should I be getting vet before teching to T2 or go to T2 first then get vet?

Thanks

Chris


Attached File(s)

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Posted by: sjceran Dec 5 2008, 20:29 PM

get t2 up and then get vet. You need grens, volks, and mg support. If you haven't built a t2 and you see BARs, go for a "strategy flank" and get t3 up. Those pumas will tear apart BAR riflemen. You should get storms with MP44's, 2 pumas and a stug. Those with at least 1 MG andsome volks support will be enough to stop riflespam. I would suggest getting a t4 up pretty quickly though, since t3 cannot withstand a tank depot.

I will get the reviews in of these replays with the rest of the reviews tomorrow.

Chris, sorry about that one game, my internet is by far the worst on this whole entire planet.

Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Dec 5 2008, 22:05 PM

Hey Chris, here is a replay where my opponent handled my rifles very well from the beginning. You might could learn a few things from this. My opponent did a good job at dodging my grenades, which leads me to consider using flame pios He also uses his multiple mgs very well. I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet, so there is probably alot more that we could learn from.

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Posted by: chriskaz Dec 6 2008, 02:27 AM

Hey Niceguy, I watched that game you posted. Your opponent did do a great job of moving around his MGs and also keeping his volks nearby. He also had the north of Sturzdorf, which is a very favorable position for wehr as far as I know. Much different than langres! Still, his MG work and support were the difference I think.

Looking forward to the reviews!


No problem. I'll just tell everyone I had the upper hand and you dropped
I'll be on vacation form the 16th to the 20th, so maybe we can get a couple games in one afternoon....

Posted by: sjceran Dec 7 2008, 15:01 PM

MrNiceGuy v. Warz-Piospam start
-Be sure to retreat pioneer squads so you do not lose 120 manpower plus 50 munitions every couple of minutes.
-The game changer was when you lost the shreck squad and BOTH of their shrecks were stolen by the brits. (10:15)
-You had a chance to win, but once you started to attack a 17-pounder head-on it was gone. You should never attack a fortified AT gun with a tank toe-to-toe because the tank will always lose. Even the US AT guns should be flanked to minimize the damage taken.
What to work on:
- Retreat your units faster. Once you have multiple units suppressed or squads losing men quickly it is time to retreat. Suppressed units cannot do much to attack, pinned units are useless, and weak squads are vulnerable, so retreating them soon is vital to win a game.
- I liked the T2 start, but I suggest you find a strategy you like and stick with it. I noticed you alternate between strategies nearly every replay. That is not an efficient way to get good. Just like chess, you pick an opening and you master it. I have been using a 4 rifle start since 1.7, although I started around 1.2. Surprise told me to start with a barracks, and from there I picked the strategy I liked. (I.e. I used to do Barracks- fast M8, but now I usually stick to Bars first.)

MrNiceguy v. Jagdisk
-good job early game
-make sure you retreat volks on time
-you had some awesome grenade shots (assault grenades on the rifle blob)
-you should have gone for his cut off points and depleted his resources
-when you retreat or lose a squad while building a mine, delete the mine so you get the munitions back
-Retreat units when they are low on health to reinforce them
What to work on:
- You lost the game because you weren’t aggressive enough. Seeing 4-5 Sherman’s on the field at once is an anomaly in 1v1 ranked. You had a great lead early game, but you lost the advantage late game due to his large resource flow. You need to get field control and you need to keep it. Ango is the perfect map to cut off, so you might as well. When you have a small resource advantage and he retreats his units, exploit the opportunity to give you all of the resources and an easy win.
-


DerTeufel v. HuangChang-If you see the PE player is focusing on one side, cross over and capture the other side. Use barbed wire to close the middle gap on Angoville. That way the PE grens will have to walk around the map, which will delay his forces, a crucial aspect versus PE is delaying their units.
-Triage Center!
-Reinforce your squads regularly. A half health rifleman squad will not stand up to a full health gren squad, or even a half health squad for that matter.
-When manning objects like AT guns or mg, use rifle squads as replacements instead of engineer squads. You can reinforce a rifle squad, so manning an AT gun will cost 81 manpower instead of 140 manpower.
-Get the supply depot upgrade when you have an excess of fuel
What to work on:
- It was a pretty good game, so the only thing that I thought you really needed to work on was your retreating and regrouping. During a lull in the battle, you have the opportunity to retreat your units, heal them, regroup, and then attack or defend. You might as well use that to your advantage, so you don’t have 3 man rifle squads capturing points or fighting enemy units. Rifles are extremely vulnerable when they lose men, so a small mistake or distraction could cause you a squad.

MrNiceGuy v. CHbrunchild
-Don’t get a wsc vs. PE
-The HT base rush is similar to the MG pin on Sturz. If you let it happen it will be hard to beat.
-You should have tried to retreat your mg squad and get it into your HQ. To do this, retreat a group of units together so it will be harder for the PE player to target your MG squad.
What to work on:
- Basically, you should have started with rifles. A wsc start is only viable on small maps, and even at that it is risky. Since Sturzdorf is a huge map, you lose a lot of capping power as well as attacking and defending abilities. Any base rush is hard to beat once you let it happen, so having units ready to retreat and defend is the only counter. A WSC does not provide that type of coverage, so starting with rifles will always be better.
-

DBCooper
-Tank micro
-sniper to counter
-lots of arty
-lost a lot of squads needlessly
-Get a nebel or stuka to counter his arty
Things to work on:
- The game winner for US was the arty. He wiped out a lot of your units with it, so you really should have tried to destroy it. The best way is through counter artillery, but a sniper can do just as well. Also, you need to practice your tank micro. When you see an AT gun, pull back or try to flank it to avoid a loss. Stay at a distance when engaging riflemen to avoid stickies and never barge a tank into the frontlines without infantry support.



Chris v John- Chris lost
2:10- lost a full volks squad!!!
2:35- Lost a pioneer squad
6:24- Quickly get that sniper, they should be a priority
What to work on:
- Well, it is obvious that you lost this one from the first 2 minutes. You should never attack a squad in a building with simply a volks squad. Retreat quickly to avoid casualties. 2 volksgrenadiers will beat 1 rifle squad in a house if they are at range and in cover.
- Losing the right side is not the end of the game, especially against a WSC strategy. Secure the left side and then build a mortar and a sniper to clear out the buildings. Man the buildings with your own mgs and move on to the next enemy sector. That is the way to beat a WSC start. Or you can go T3 and get a puma and a nebel, but you need to micro your Puma so the mg AP rounds don’t kill it.

Chris v. John
- This was actually a much better game than the last two.
- Not many big mistakes, but the on thing that bothered me was the fact that Chris used Assault grenades instead of regular grenades. When you are against a single rifle squad, use a 25 munitions grenade instead of a 50 munitions grenade. Chances are he will retreat or dodge the grenade, so why waste an extra 25 munitions. Against a mass of rifles, then the assault grenades are ideal.

John v. VixenX
-You did a great job early game. You were playing like a level 10
-Then you started losing a few squads, but you were still doing well
-The end of the game was when you chose to build a wsc and a mortar instead of an M8 or a tank depot. You had 160 fuel floating at that time.
-Vixen went for the “South Sturz Pin,” which catches many players off guard. However, you did a good job catching it and defending, the problem was you never advanced to armor, so you were destroyed by his superior infantry.
What to work on:
- Flame engineers would have worked wonders in that situation. Get them up to defend against the pin. Using flamers in conjunction with grenades and Bars will clear out any house.
- Get a supply depot upgrade. You had so much fuel and some shortages of manpower. You should have purchased the Supply Depot upgrade ASAP.
- Getting the mortar pretty much ended the game for you. A M8 would have worked 1000 times better for you. With a bit of micro you could have changed the outcome of the game. Or you could have skipped to a TD and bought a Sherman or Sherman crocodile. Both would have turned the tide of the game for you.
- Overall you did well against a level 20 wehr player, so kudos to you.

I just need to review your last replay Chris and John, but I will get that out soon. Next up is the actual mentoring aspect like capping orders, decision making, and strategies

Posted by: sjceran Dec 7 2008, 16:10 PM

Here are some capping orders for a few maps. They are for wehrmacht and US. The build order for wehr is a Pio then 2 volks. If you build a volks and then an MG, keep the MG in th area of your volks. These are just some suggested capping orders, so if i find one you are more comfortable with, then by all means use it. The "yellow" lines go to either side because their position depends on what is going on during the game. If you are engaged right off the bat, send to 2nd volks squad to help your first. If your 1st pio is in trouble, then retreat it or send the volks out to help it.





***Pio 1 should be Pio 2 on this map. Your first engie should build the building, then pio 2 should go for the fuel on Semois. The map is symmetrical, so the North start is the exact same thing.




If you have any questions ask. Engie or Pio 1 is the unit that builds your barracks or WQ.

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 8 2008, 01:31 AM

Hey Stefan,

Thanks for the reviews and map capping guides. WOUld you mind doing one for Langres? I usually send my pios/engies down the flanks of the map and my rifles/volks into the center by the houses and was wondering if this is the best way to go.

Also, I have a question about barbed wire. I see it used a lot in high level replays. When and where do you usually used barbed wire? I feel it tends to limit where I can go more than keep my opponent out of areas.

It was fun playing that 1/2 game against you yesterday. We'll get a full one in someday. I find your in game comments very useful!
Thanks again
Chris

Posted by: sjceran Dec 8 2008, 01:43 AM

yeah sure np, I was going to do one anyway. I just had to do some other stuff so I didn't post it. Probably by tomorrow it will be posted.


Usually around chokepoints or if you want to tunnel your enemy into an area. If you have field control, you might as well make it harder for you ropponent to flank so you use barbed wire to cut off possible flanking routes. I will show you some good places in a bit.


Yeah someday It was a good game, but you needed to retreat more. The biggest issue i see with you two guys is retreating and regrouping.

Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Dec 10 2008, 05:53 AM

Okay, so me an Chris played a few games tonight... Two of which I was US. Chris lost both games although one of them I thought I was gonna lose around midgame mark. I'm pretty sure Chris wants to know what he is doing wrong, but I'll leave the rest of the commentary up to him.

Perhaps a brief review of these would be nice.

	vsderteufelwinwehr.rec
	Size: 376.49k
	Number of downloads: 13
	Player Name	Side	Team
	DerTeufel		1
	MrN1c39uy		2

	vsderteufeluswin.rec
	Size: 413.99k
	Number of downloads: 15
	Player Name	Side	Team
	MrN1c39uy		1
	DerTeufel		2

	vsderteufelwinus.rec
	Size: 278.91k
	Number of downloads: 10
	Player Name	Side	Team
	MrN1c39uy		1
	DerTeufel		2

Also, I seem to have a much harder time as US against PE. I know the basic strat to use against them, but they always seem to win the close skirmishes which usually lead to them controlling most of the map and results in a loss for me.

Here is a replay for example. I used a quad first here instead of an M8 which was the first time I've tried that.

Also, I think its around the 9:45 mark in this replay there was a battle, and I really didn't know how to fight it lol I mean I didn't know how to use the units I had to take out his units. Oh and the game ends early though I'm not sure if he dropped or what. But I felt like I would have lost.

	...rec
	Size: 239.39k
	Number of downloads: 13
	Player Name	Side	Team
	MrN1ce9uy		1
	PrivateGundel		2

Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Dec 10 2008, 05:56 AM

Oh and I like those capping order pictures I gotta start using that barbed wire in front of the south building on angoville

Posted by: sjceran Dec 10 2008, 20:37 PM

Ok, sry guys my internet has been real shit lately, so I am lucky if i get on for a hour. I will do my best to get on as much as possible, but i will have those reviews soon. Langres capping order is coming up too.

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 11 2008, 00:26 AM

Aw man, John you had to post all three games ? Stefan, please ignore my frustrated ranting . In my defense though I had the south starting point on sturzdorf all 3 games!

Seriously though, I started out well all 3 games, at least the first two ( I thought, I've only watched 1 replay so far). But about mid-game I start to lose all engagements. I either have to repeatedly retreat and lose map control, or worse yet, stay around too long and lose squads AND map control. Pair that with my inability to micro a couple places at once and I end up not avoiding grenades or even knowing how 2 squads dissappear. All in all just not good
The result is I end up spending a ton of MP reinforcing repeatedly, combined with like 1/4 of the map. Even if I didn't drive my tanks right into the enemy, it probably wouldn't have helped anyway

Not really sure what advice you can give besides "don't do that", and practice will make things better. I wouldn't spend too much time on these games...

EDIT: The 2nd game is definitely the one most worth watching. Except that I counted at least 7 schreck shots that hit absolutely nothing ! There was one rush down the right hand side that completely turned the game.

I do think I need to move around my MGs more to keep him on his toes and not be able to set up his trademark massive flanks with like 4-5 rifles and a couple flamer-engies thrown in

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Dec 12 2008, 20:48 PM

Don't worry Chris, we all rant at one point or another. Normally, I am a very nice person, but there is one PE player who I have lost to 3 times on Angoville using the SE doctrine strategy who pisses me off so much. Everytime I get close to winning he does something really gay like spam AC's or some stupid crap like that. My last game I was going to post to tell people about it, but I was too embarrassed by my ranting lol

His trademark lol jk. Moving mg's is nice, but often times that is what makes a wehr player win or lose a game. If you move at the wrong moment and allow rifles to get close, you could easily lose the map or even the game. It is a risky move, but whemn done correctly, it will really help. But if you have a building with an mg in it, you can just keep it there for most of the game. If he has a mortar, sniper, or you see a flank, just pull out and retreat. But the main point is there is a lot of risk for not much gain.

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 12 2008, 23:13 PM

Thanks Stefan, I don't rant too often, but I've lost like 5 games in a row to John.

What I meant is that I've never seen someone flank so often with like every unit he has on the field, usually its one squad to get pinned and then a flanking squad or 2. But, it works every time

Sometimes I know where his rifles will be going next - i.e. he's tried one side and failed so he'll be coming down the other side next. SO it would help to move my MGs to that side. This happened in the 2nd game posted where his rifles went to the right hand side. I saw them b/c I had to retreat a pio. I could have moved my MGs over there and prevented his capping of the +16 fuel and VP. I ended up losing a couple squds there and it was gg.

This is where I need the help I think. Mid-game, before the heavy armor hits the field. That is usually when I lose the skirmishes and the map. Part of it though is me not anticipating well enough or reading his strategy, which probably just comes with practice. In the first game I didn't see until it was too late that he skipped T2 (no grenadiers) and should have gone MP instead of TD like I did.

Posted by: sjceran Dec 15 2008, 20:56 PM

Standard Souh start. The 1st rifle or volks squad will usually attack the enemy squad near the fuel to make an easy capture point for you.


Standard wehr and US start on North. Be sure not to lose the house on the right side if you play this start.


My US start for North. It works well since it quickly cuts the wehr player off or causes them to focus on that side and lose the right side.






I reviewed the replays, but it will take sometime for me to type them up as for I am doing something a bit different which will hopefully make you learn better

Merry Christmas
Stefan

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 16 2008, 00:14 AM

Thanks Stefan! I notice you tend to cap the VPs quite early. This seems unusual in that I don't see many players doing this. Also, I remember reading a while ago people saying you shouldn't do this and commenting that only 'noobs' cap VPs right away. Would you say this is still uncommon, or has the thinking changed about this?

Have a great holiday guys!!!

Stefan I am home this week. I have a lot of work to do on the house, but maybe friday afternoon we could play a match or 2?

Posted by: sjceran Dec 16 2008, 20:18 PM

I have to give guitar lessons at four on friday, but we can play earlier I think.

Well, getting an early VP lead is crucial. I don't care what other players say because I can beat them without capping the VP's I usually get a 50-100 point lead before my opponent gets some VPs, but most of the time my VP count is 500-XXX. I do this because there is nothing more frustrating than losing a match due to the timer running out. Good question though.

Posted by: sjceran Dec 16 2008, 20:45 PM

Ok guys, I decided to do a new type of review. Rather than telling you what to do, I can show you. Hopefully this will be more beneficial to you guys, and if you like it I will do it again. Otherwise, I will return to the old method of reviewing.


MrNiceGuy v. PrivateGrudel

1) In the first screen shot you should have moved your units to the position I marked. The units in the building won’t be able to fire at you, but you can kill them. It is the same for the other side of the building.

2) A PE player’s worst enemy is time. You should have put the retreating rifle squad into the church. Then you bring up the other squads and place them in green cover for support. You would have stalled his HT while having engineers capping and one extra rifle squad to hunt down the Ketten. Inf HT’s suck against entrenched units, so either he would have retreated or he would have lost his HT.

3) You need to retreat your units faster. You lost a lot of manpower needlessly, which cost you later. You were facing an Inf HT and a grenadier squad. Two rifles with Bars would have a hard time against that, so vanilla rifles should be retreated ASAP.

4) I would suggest getting a M8 first because the HT is not good against units in buildings. A M8 is more durable, while providing a good offense that could engage nearly every type of PE vehicle. You can get a HT later, but in my opinion you don’t need it. In that game you only had a few kills with the HT, while the M8 could have done more damage if it was used more aggressively. The faster a M8 comes out on the field the more you can do, but the M8 will still provide some good use in the late game.

5) You need to buy the .50 cal upgrade because it really does increase the damage output per second.

6) This was the clincher, but the game was already heading down Private’s path. Always get a minesweeper squad against PE if you suspect he goes TH. In this game the doctrine choice wasn’t too obvious, but you could conclude that it was either Luftwaffe or Tank Hunters. Either way, a minesweeper would have been a good choice to get.

7) Self-explanatory 

You were just losing manpower left and right. The AB doctrine for strafe wasn’t the best choice considering the armor he had on the field. You also lost the VP race aswell, and for some reason, US players have the hardest time getting the lead back in the VP race. I would get some sticky bombs to stop those dang AC’s, and a flame engineer to burn the church. It wasn’t the worst game, but there were some slip ups that simply ruined your chances of winning.





Chris v. John

1) Retreat right away. Loosing some ground is not the end of the game, but losing an initial squad is. You sent them to delay the rifle squads, I am guessing, but it won’t help you. Remember, there is no cheap way to heal Volks squads, so avoid losing squad members early in order to keep full health squads. Also, Volks squads fire at a much lower rate while moving, so you aren’t doing much damage when you run away.

2) Don’t run away and give him your land. Put that volks squad into the house to defend your territory. If he chooses to attack, you will win. If he flees, then you get uncontested territory.

3) It is not the worst MG position, but the house provides a lot more coverage. Then the second MG could protect a flank of the house, which in return, locks down the left side of the map.

4) Retreat your Volks ASAP. Weakened Volks will not win against a rifle squad up close. Remember, Volks > Rifles at range. Volks < Rifle medium to short range, in equal cover. The worst thing to do is lose squads, especially during early-mid game. Once you get to late game it is more forgiving to lose a squad, but you still should try to avoid it.

5) Look at the mini map  If you notice how far away most of you enemy units are you realize the potential during this lull. This is the part that separates a level 20 from a level 10. A level 20 knows how to make the most out of every opportunity. This is an opportunity to move the frontlines up, and secure more ground. A volks and MG can easily destroy the one rifle squad in your territory, while your idle squads (BLUE) can go and cap the points circle in blue. Those are the most efficient points to cut off John’s territory. Get those MG’s up and in the building and set up mines and other defenses. Windows of opportunity are open for seconds so you need to recognize them and exploit them.

6) Never cap while under attack, unless you are 7/8 of the way finished of a high point. A strategy point is somewhat worthless, unless it is a cut-off, so there is no point in losing manpower. Remember, units capturing points take a damage penalty, so they will die faster!

7) This is my thought process, and I put on the FoW to show you what I mean. There is a visible Rifle squad near your munitions point. If he is not capping, you can assume he is a decoy squad or a flanking squad. Therefore, I would move my mg back to a spot that isn’t as easy to flank. Also, the yellow line is barbed wire. That is one place I would wire during a lull in battle to protect your flanks. That is all wire is for, funneling enemy units into your kill zone.

8) Once you see that units are penetrating your defenses, just retreat. Losing full squads is a lot worse than losing some territory. I have come back from many games where I had little to no territory, but I almost never come back from having 1-2 squads.

9) This is another point that is game changing. Notice how much fuel you have. You are in perfect position for T3, and considering it is 10 minutes into the game a M8 is almost sure to come out. A Puma plus an upgraded Puma will easily take out his units, while your infantry goes out and captures his points. Also, consider how many munitions you have. 75 munitions are enough for one schreck, but you are up against four rifles and a M8. Are you really going to make a difference with one schreck? You are better off with a Pak 38 first than a shreck squad. A panzer Faust plus a Pak shot equals dead M8.

10) Get those SMG’s up close. They do little damage from medium range, and nearly nothing at a distance. You need to get right up to the squad, literally on top of them. If they have Bars, be prepared to retreat them because they probably won’t last long.

11) I don’t see why you got a mortar. He had multiple grenade Rifles and an M8. There is nothing a mortar can do for you. Get a Pak or more grens.

12) This is where all the controversy started. You lost both squads to the rifles because they were both fairly weak. Two gren squads have no chance versus three bar riflemen. I would have thrown a grenade at the unit in green cover and then quickly retreated. A grenade does more damage to units in cover. As a little side note, I took out a volks squad and a MG squad with one grenade. It is all about timing and accuracy.

13) John, buy the supply depot upgrade. It will really help you! Get a TD up. Even though you feel you will win, it is better to be over prepared than under prepared. I had a situation where I had full map control but only a MP and some vetted rifles. A KT came out and took out most of my units. I still won but I had to build a plethora of AT guns. Having map control for a while does not mean you will get the win, or even the advantage. Having map control for the game will give you the advantage.

14) Don’t barge in with unsupported vehicles. Even though it was gg, you still shouldn’t do that. You lost a lot of resources for naught.


Playing as wehr. You need to keep your units together. Wehr is not meant to be a fast paced, offensive army. They are a defensive army. Of course, you can play offensively and usually it will do you good, but when the time comes, secure a side and stick with it.

On Sturz, I am telling you the capping order I gave you guys works. I have played at least 50 games on Sturz, and lost maybe 5-10 times. The winner of the game usually has the right side secured. That is the key is the fuel.


I will get the other replays out ASAP. It takes a while to type these up, along with school work and Strategy Moderator duties, so sorry for the delay. Hopefully this will help you guys out. It takes forever to post this

Merry Christmas
Stefan

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 17 2008, 00:42 AM

Thanks Stefan!!! Very informative. I woudl say maybe a combo of this way and the old way of reviewing may be OK and hopefully less work for you. For example, I don't think screenshots are needed for the more obvious types of mistakes I make such as rushing a vehicle into 3 squads or not retreating fast enough. But the screenshot method is extremely helpful for comments about my MGs, especially the one about the lull in the action and moving the MGs up. That comment was the best because I am always unsure when to move my MGs and take territory in general.

What controversy You mean my ranting? Yeah that put me over the edge . I think there was even a fourth rifle behind me too. But if there wasn't, 2 grens can't beat 3 barred rifles even if 2 of them are suppressed?

Another question I have is that recently I have tried to concentrate on retreating much earlier, especially if it seems that I can't win the engagement. But, I end up losing territory each time and when I come back to attack, I'm still outnumbered or there is a higher tier unit that kills me (I'm out-teched). I realize this is difficult without a replay, but should I be blobbing more units together, or switching to another area of the map to take territory where I may know he had less units? Clearly I'm still not doing something right and losing the MP war.

Thanks once again!!!

Chris

P.S. I've been playing guitar for years now (although not recently since my daughter was born) What kind of music do you prefer to play?

Posted by: MrN1ce9uy Dec 17 2008, 18:48 PM

Yeah that way of reviewing is much better imo. It makes for us to be able to know exactly what you are talking about.

I haven't really been playing CoH much lately, been busy doing other stuff. But hopefully I will be able to get a few games in this week.

Thanks again Stefan for giving us your time. Much appreciated.

Posted by: sjceran Dec 17 2008, 20:32 PM

It isn't all bad to lose some territory if you have map control. Chances are you will gain some back. On maps like langres and ango, you want to secure one side and stay there. If you win a battle you can try and capture some territory, but when you are about to be attacked, get all of your units into that area excluding pioneer squads. Wehr plays more like Brits, while US plays like PE. Brits aren't very mobile, but have strong units. They are vulnerable early game, but unbeatable late game. NEVER BLOB IN BATTLE because that is when a nade, SR, or arty shot can wipe out your army.


I play pretty much everything, except for country I really like shred guitar, so a when I first started speed was my goal. Now that I am quite good, I play a combo of metal and Jazz, but not quite fusion.


No problem. I haven't been playing this game either so don't worry.


Not without grenades, cover, and focus firing. You will clearly be out numbered 18:8 and even though two are suppressed, they are still effective. If they wre pinned then you wouldn't have a problem. But the rifles were also vetted which makes it even more difficult.

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 18 2008, 00:46 AM

Thanks Stefan! I really appreciate all the time you spend on the reviews and answering our questions so rapidly!

I don't like country either, but you should check out some bluegrass! The guitar players as well as the mandolin players can shred it up pretty good. I used to be a metalhead, thats what got me into guitar - OLD Maiden & Metallica, Yngvie Malmstein (spelling?), Satriani, Dream Theater, Pantera etc etc. Now I'm much more into improvisational music like the Dead, Phish, SCI etc.


Well that explains a lot. I thought suppression really disabled the squad and rendered them essentially ineffective. So I havebeen 'going in for the kill' when there is a suppressed squad, or ignoring the suppressed squad and focus-firing on the other squad. But, it seems when outnumbered this still won't work. Big difference in my thinking and this should help quite a bit!

I'll let you know about Frida, I may not be able to play at all...

Thanks again! Chris

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 21 2008, 00:31 AM

Hey Stefan,

Another replay here. I thought I was doing much better with the unit preservation this game, but I still couldn't get an advantage. I loss my croc needlessly and that hurt quite a bit, as well as a sniper. Even with these mistakes, I think the game was winnable. I think it was close until he got the KT and then it was GG.

Just wondering what else I could have done to get more of an advantage early/mid-game. I don't think you need to go all out with a review, just let me know what I could have changed ( besides my obvious mistakes above )

Thanks,
Chris



Attached File(s)

	1215_loss_to_wehr.rec
	Size: 491.83k
	Number of downloads: 15
	Player Name	Side	Team
	DerTeufel		1
	Ecledyl		2

Posted by: sjceran Dec 22 2008, 21:01 PM

Hey guys, sorry forthe lack of activity, ut my teachers are swamping me with exams and projects before the break, so I really haven't been able to do anything. I am going to get those reviews soon.

Sorry
Stefan

Posted by: sjceran Dec 27 2008, 00:58 AM

Ok guys, I got another round of bad news. I will not be able to watch any replays because my good computer is broken. Well, the monitor stopped working. So I will be able to post from my labtop, but I can't install CoH on it so no replays.

I will do my best to get a new monitor ASAP. I am extremely sorry for the inconvience guys. I will still answer all of your questions when I can, but replays and online games will have to wait.


Sorry guys.
Stefan

-on a side note, I hope you, John and Chris, had a great holiday, and may you guys have a very happy new year.

Posted by: chriskaz Dec 30 2008, 02:48 AM

Hi Stefan (and John)

Thats sucks about your monitor! I have the opposite problem, my desktop can't play CoH so I play all my games on my laptop.

The only 'question' I have is to ask if you ahve any tips about vehicle micro. I really have a problem with this as it seems to demand to much attention to move them around that I tend to ignore my squads more (especially in other areas of the map). This gets compounded when there are multiple vehicles on map (esp M8s/pumas).

Wishing you both the best for the coming New Year!

Posted by: sjceran Dec 31 2008, 00:18 AM

Lol, computers suck

Well there are a few things that I do in order to get better vehicle micro.

1) The first thing I do during a full scale attack involving multiple units is I try to keep all units on the same screen. When all of the units are on the same screen, you can easily retreat damaged units and reduce the chance of losing a squad. If I have units spread all over the map, I increase my risk of losing a squad. I will flank from multiple directions, but the end result is all of my units on the same screen. I will post some pictures once I get a new monitor.

2) Kite your vehicles. This is essential for light vehicles like pumas and M8's, but it is still important for tanks. You should keep your units at the maximum of its firing range in order to avoid small arms fire.

Posted by: sjceran Dec 31 2008, 00:47 AM

Lol, computers suck

Well there are a few things that I do in order to get better vehicle micro.

1) The first thing I do during a full scale attack involving multiple units is I try to keep all units on the same screen. When all of the units are on the same screen, you can easily retreat damaged units and reduce the chance of losing a squad. If I have units spread all over the map, I increase my risk of losing a squad. I will flank from multiple directions, but the end result is all of my units on the same screen. I will post some pictures once I get a new monitor.

2) Kite your vehicles. This is essential for light vehicles like pumas and M8's, but it is still important for tanks. You should keep your units at the maximum of its firing range in order to avoid small arms fire.
- If you are facing an AT gun, you have a choice to make. If you see the AT gun is unguarded, you may chose to flank it and destroy the crew. If the AT gun is in a road, it will be harder to maneuver so you might decide to retreat than rather than take the chance of losing a light vehicle. If it is a tank, you have heavy crush so it isn;t a problem. If the AT gun is guarded, even if it is a volks squad, you might not want to attack. Chances are you will take at least 1 hit from the AT gun, so a faust or a sticky bomb becomes a huge threat. If the AT gun is guarded, you might not want to attack it until you have some infantry units of your own.

3) Half health units should begin to move back to safety. Unlike infantry units, you need to retreat vehicles manually, which makes them a higher priority unit, considering their price and vulnerablility. When a tank or a M8 has half health, it is time to pull it back for repairs. Now if you destroy their only AT weapon, which caused you to lose some health, then you can keep it on the frontilnes until a new threat arises. But if you don't kite or pull back a vehicle at half health, you risk getting a damaged engine or worse. So vehicles at half health should start to retreat for repairs, units with a quarter health should be retreated right away.

4) Focus firing. This is a very important technique for you guys to learn, and it doesn't simply apply to infantry units. Here is an ingame example:

You have a Sherman, three rifle squads, and a flame engie.
Your wehr opponent has 2 schrecked gren squads, a pak, and an MG. This situation could go either way, but if you play it correctly, the US player should win.

- This is how the US player should go about this attack. I will post some pics to reinforce this idea too, once I get a new monitor
The Sherman should focus on the MG squad only! Until it is dead, the riflemen are somewhat useless, depending on how you flanked. If the MG is in a building, move the Sherman to a side that is away from AT fire. Once the MG is dead, the rifles should go for the infantry and the PAK. Meanwhile, the Sherman should be on the retreat if it took hits from any AT guns. If you lose the Sherman, you still won the manpower battle and territory.

5) Here are some basic tank stats.

Sherman < wehr unvetted P4
Upgunned Sherman > Wehr unvetted P4
Upgunned Sherman = Wehr vetted P4 (winners are based on luck
All shermans < Any Panther
e.g. shots missing, reflections, etc.)
M10 = P4 (It really depends on how many shots miss)
M10 < Panther

Always go for the rear armor, but try to keep your frontal armor forward.

Hope this helps

Happy New Year guys!
Stefan

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 1 2009, 23:43 PM

Thanks a lot for the very helpful advice!

So if I understand this correctly, most of the time your units are very close (ie same screen) and therefore you only cap when you have made the enemy retreat his units and you have a 'lull'. Is this your general approach (albeit somewhat simplified) - have more units, force a retreat (at least), win territory and cap during the breaks in the action? Does this apply to all factions, or are you less lilley to do this with a certain faction? What about harassment of other areas of the map or cutoffs?

I think one problem I have is that I am always in a hurry and don't take time to set up a 'full-scale attack'. I feel like whenever I have retreated all my squads and try to do this, my opponent is so dug in that it is very difficult to win the upcoming battle. Especially when I don't have a map control advantage (and vs wehr).

Sorry for all the questions, but without replays I'm trying to think of stuff that I have trouble with...

Thanks again,
Chris

Posted by: sjceran Jan 2 2009, 00:38 AM

Yup, but remember I always try to attack from two fronts to make it harder for my opponent repel it. This is the general strategy for every army except brits. They can basically camp on the side they want to keep. You need to attack, reinforce, defend.

Now there is one strategy that is good to use. If you are US, you want to draw the Wehr player to you. So on Semois, if the wehr player controls the middle, you should try to avoid that and get his fuel point. This will force him to move some of his forces. Eventually you will have to attack the center, and it will be difficult, but by cutting off other points around the map, you will force him to come to you.

Remember, a well planned attack will always work better than a series of quick infantry skirmishes. Remember, the key to vCoH armies is to retreat, regroup, and attack. US should be able to get early map control, but it is hard to control it. For Wehrmacht, you want to settle in a point that has two vp's locked down, and block off possible flanks. Funnelling enemy troops into your killzone is the point of Wehrmacht units.


Keep those questions coming, I like them. If my answer is a little vague, just tell me and I will try to explain it better.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 2 2009, 01:13 AM

Cool, that's defintiely a slightly different approach than what I usually do as Ami. I usually have rifles on each 'half' of the map and cap whenever I get the chance.

A follow-up question: what do you do if you get pushed off the map and own less than half of it? I find that once I get down, I never come back. I'm always outnumbered and spend all my MP reinforcing, resulting in getting out-teched. Sometimes one massive retreat starts this downward spiral (especially as wehr but also as ami vs T2 bunker). Do you have a specific way you claw your way back?

An unrelated question, can you give me some idea of the changes in the beta and how they will affect vCOH faction play? Also what are the 1v1 maps in the beta and are they downloadable (i.e. player submitted like Duclair). I'd like to not be too far behind the curve when the beta finally arrives....

Posted by: sjceran Jan 2 2009, 01:34 AM

woops double post

Posted by: sjceran Jan 2 2009, 01:36 AM

Hmm, well to claw back I usually have to break through their lines, or attack a different side of the map. (depends on the map)Depending on how badly you get cut off, you usually have a good chance of coming back into the game. Remember, always get a triage center to heal your units so you can attack at full strength.
THis is actually kind of hard to explain without game tbh because there are so many variables in this situation. I should get my comp screen soon, so I will be able to show you. Basically, it is a combination of luck and experience to claw your way back.

As for the beta, US armor has received some significant buffs. The 76 mm upgrade makes a difference in all US armor, including the pershing. The armor doctrine, especially the Pershing, received some buffs, but I think SR was nerfed badly. Basically it is worthless again. Fire-up has a small munitions cost now, and there might be some other nerf that I can't remember.

Wehr didn't change too much. Med bunkers haven't been fixed, but the Stug has been improved, along with the PUMA. Volks with a mp40 receive a buff. My plan is to create a volkspam strat that will be unbeatable to prove my point that med bunkers without fixes and volks buffs are a stupid idea

PE has been nerfed hard. Grens with G43's, the AC, the Inf HT, and the Jagd were nerfed. The wirblewind was buffed though.

Brits were changed a lot, or their resource system at least. I haven't payed too much attention to them because everything was changed and then reverted so i lost track.

The maps are alright. Duclair is a mix between BL and Ango. It is a large map, but has that swamp feel to it. It is a good map, but I never got to test it with a real player since no one was on. Then there is a map called industrial riverbed which I like. It is pretty big, so lots of resources, but there are a lot of flanks.

I wish they would just post a clear list of all the changes for the patch, but i don't think it will happen until the patch comes out. Plus this patch will be like 1 gb.

Happy new year, guys.
Stefan


P.S. John, are you ok? You haven't been on since the 17th of december.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 3 2009, 01:44 AM

So I've lost like 4 games in a row to wehr . All T2 med bunker strats execpt for the last game which was the support vet strat. I thought I did really well flanking in that I killed at least 2 MGs, if not 3. But 3-4 flamers at once really destroy 2 rifles.

Anyways, my question is that I have been going with an M8 which did nothing almost every game. HOw do you counter these strats. From what I've seen in the strategy forum, it seems to be rifles>WSC>T4. In most games, I've had lots of trouble getting either the fuel or the MP for T4 and a tank. Also didn't really know which tank to get first as there was usually a pak and many grens.

Amazing that after playing for like year now, I still feel like total noob with questions like this...

Posted by: sjceran Jan 3 2009, 02:02 AM

Hey chris, don't worry, I have lost way more games than that This isn't a noob question either, nearly everyone has asked this question once before.

The thing that I do is I get BARs, then a flame engie for flanks. The key to beating a T2 player is to keep the fighting away from the med bunker, or to destroy the med bunker early. I normally go Infantry for artillery for arty...OR armor for a calliope. I suggest going this way if the M8 isn't working for you:
Rifle-rifle-riifle-rifle-BARs-Triage Center-SD-TD-croc-sherman

You should get stickies and a Sherman first, instead of a croc, if he quickly teched up to t4 for a P4 or an ostwind.

I have used the rifle-rifle-rifle-wsc-mortar-sniper-sd-td, and it works quite well, but it requires a bit more micro because of the sniper. It works well, but it sometimes reminds the wehr player to get a sniper which is a nightmare. But the nice thing is sniped grens cannot be healed from the med bunker.

Also, try building a medic tent of your own to get some rifles regenerated.

Since the wehr player usually camps around the med bunker, some form of artillery is really helpful. ie mortars, calliopes, off map arty or 105 howie.

What I would suggest is playing a few games, under a smurf if you want, and try both strategies out. Remember, if you are floating lots of manpower, feel free to use Observation Posts on fuel points to get a croc out quicker.

I should be getting the monitor soon, so hopefully we could play a few games together and try this out.

Also, feel free to post the replays, it will just take some time before I watch them.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 3 2009, 02:31 AM

Thanks again! I don't mind the losing to much, its the lack of improvemnet hat's the bummer...

Do you usually use the BO above or are you typically getting the M8? I find the lack of AT guns becomes a problem..

Also, what BO do you use against Kibbles support vet strat? I think a similar BO may work best fo this also...

Posted by: sjceran Jan 3 2009, 03:50 AM

I normally go with the BAR BO. Sometimes I will get an M8 if i am short on fuel and I need some extra fire power. If I feel that I need AT guns, I will get a mp, and then go Armor for the fast deployment and the calliope later. If i have a big fuel advantage I will get a MP and a TD.

Against Kibbles strat I usually get BARs but 2 flame engies instead of one. I might get a wsc for a sniper and a mortar depending on how bad the situation is, (ie low fuel, lots of manpower, rifles need more support), but then I will tech up for a M8 quickly. The M8 is used to pursue MG's in the buildings. You need to issue a lot of flanks though.

Posted by: sjceran Jan 3 2009, 05:16 AM

That was a very gg Chris. At least lv 9-10 wehrmacht play by you, so there is definitely improvement there. I think terror would have helped you out a bit more but you accidently picked blitz The only problem I saw was capping territory toward the end. I had a lot of resources which kept me in the game We both were a little sloppy at the end though. Sorry for the arty too

Im not sure what happened at the end though. RO crashed I guess, becuase I couldn't get back on to RO, and when I did my computer froze >_<


Attached File(s)

	Chrisgg.rec
	Size: 480.45k
	Number of downloads: 11
	Player Name	Side	Team
	sjceran		1
	BurgerMeister		2

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 3 2009, 18:56 PM

Thanks Stefan, I felt pretty good at the beginning with my MGs. How easy were you taking it? You could have crushed me much earlier mid-game I think. Do you usually wait to build up 2-3 tanks and then send them out in a massive attack? I think RO crashed because I was also offline at the end of the game and that never happens to me...

I watched the replay really quickly and there were times where my volks/grens were standing around that I probably could have capped - at least the right hand fuel and ammo. I was a little too tentative and worried to leave my MGs without support. Two rifles squads catching them capping would have fordce a retreat and left my MGs wide open - at least thats my read. Also, I think I stayed in T2 a little too long and maybe could have had T4 out a little sooner. But it was very fun and informative!

I'd like to play you as american sometime because I definitely think I need help flanking.

Posted by: sjceran Jan 3 2009, 23:07 PM

Sure it would be a pleasure to play you. Well, my dad took the monitor back, but hopefully I will be able to buy one tomorrow.

Yeah, I knew you had lots of AT weapons and I didn't really need to send in a tank right away, so I figured I might as well try to surprise you. The one thing that I was wondering about was, why did you only produce one P4 at a time. I was assuming because of a pop cap, but you should just keep on producing once you get enough resources. Even though I lost a lot of vehicles, I still won because I outproduced you.

TBH, I was getting a bit worried every now and then, but mostly over VPs. If you got a little more territory, there would have been a good chance of me losing from VPs. Of course, if i did lose I had a line-up of excuses

If this were two months ago, I could have crushed you by the five minute mark lol, jk. But no, I could have played a bit more aggressively and flanked more, but I am a bit rusty and I didn't wan tto get carried away.

Yeah RO must have crashed because it gave us that disclaimer saying the game disconnected. Argh, when I tried to reconnect it froze and I had to shut down the bad way by pressing the power button >_<

But really, you had a very good Wehr start, and the sniper addition was very good. Your mg placement was very good too, but sometimes you could be a bit more aggressive with them, simply by inching up. Also, left hand opening to North's cut off point should be wired shut. That cuts off flanks so you can focus your mgs into the middle, funneling my troops into your kill zone.

As I said before, you played wehr correctly by having me come to you, and usually I ended up in retreat. All you need is a little more capping, and a slightly quicker T4. Also, I didn;t get to watch the rep yet, but you should OP your fuel point next to your base if you have extra manpower. 8 extra fuel is a big deal. I OPed my munitions and fuel, and at one point I had 500 munitions and plenty of fuel throughout the game.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 4 2009, 02:44 AM

I think I built a second pak instead at one point. IT wasn't pop cap but MP I think that was the problem. Lots of grens to reinforce


Excellent point! This was something I asked about ealier in the thread, and that would have helped a lot because I was worried about the flank coming from that left hand side and could have had both my MGs moved up more towards the vp instead!

I think I should have OPed a muni, becasuse I had enough fuel but was short on shrecks when your first croc came out. I had only 1 shreck squad. Maybe I could have saved my pak then...

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 10 2009, 14:29 PM

Hey Stefan,
Sorry for the lack of activity, I've haven't had many replays worth posting. Either I win handily, or get my butt wiped due to stupid mistakes. One game yesterday against brits though, I don't know how I could have changed things. It was on ango, I capped the whole left side and had my MGs on the right. He built a mortar way back and with his infantry and a bren cleared me out. After the retreat, when I returned he had like 4 emplacements including some trenches. I tried to use flamers and schrecked storms, but couldn't crack that nut. Any suggestions. I think the problem is not letting him build all that, but one mass retreat gave him enough time....

He didn't even build one tank, just more emplacements like AT and Bofors, and sat on the 2 VPs. I had gone T3, built a couple nebels, but they weren't much help. I didn't bother with T4.

Thanks,
Chris

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 11 2009, 20:26 PM

Hey Stefan,

Finally I have a replay worth posting. It's a somewhast long game vs PE where I couldn't get the advantage and slowly got pushed off the middle of langres by hetzer/marder combo (supported by a big MP44 blob). I'm wondering how I could have changed things and gotten at least enough time for my VP advantage to give me the win. Things I have thought of are:

1) supply yard upgrade!!! Totally forgot about this (again) as I usually do in a tight game.
2) Maybe moved my AT up to take out the Marders when he retreated the blob
or
3) more airborne with RR to do the same as #2.
4) used strafe more (don't like to do that) or suppress more with the BARS.

His MP44 blob kept wiping out my AT guns (rifles just don't cut it against 4 MP44 squads)

Hopefully you have a monitor by now and can check out the replay. Thanks!

Chris




Attached File(s)

	0110_loss_to_pe.rec
	Size: 623.87k
	Number of downloads: 19
	Player Name	Side	Team
	BurgerMeister		1
	clearly		2

Posted by: sjceran Jan 12 2009, 00:04 AM

Hey Chris, I have a monitor now so I can watch it The problem now is time I will get a review up ASAP.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 12 2009, 11:34 AM

Quick question, what's your wehr BO vs Brits? I usually go 4 pio/flamers then MGS and volks until T3. Then pumas and schreck storms. I do great early game, but my midgame costs me every time. Yesterday I had all of the map on langres except the north base and the 2 northern fuels, and still lost. I did't 'camp' and wait for him to come to me though. I find that usually ends up in either a slow sprawling city or me being surprised by like 4 tanks...which is what happened anyway (the tanks)...

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Jan 13 2009, 20:09 PM

Well, tbh I kind of give up against brits and just try to play my best. It is an uphill battle from the start because maps that are good for wehr, are twice as good for brits. Normally, I will build 1 extra pio and get 2 volks, 2 mg's, 1 sniper, and then T3. I will get storms with MP44's if he uses a heavy inf strat, or storms with schrecks if he uses a lot of armor or emplacements.

After 1 officer, ~2 pumas, a nebel (and a Stug if he gets early armor) I will tech up to t4 and/or get veterancy for my inf or amror. (Veterancy is a decision you'll have to make based on your situation. If you are relying on infantry, get inf vet etc.)

Hopefully this will help you, but to be honest, I am at a loss with brits, like most players.

I will get that review for your rep by Friday at the latest. I have a physics exam today so I need to study

Posted by: ISSIGuderian Jan 13 2009, 23:13 PM

just dropping by for a sec, good luck with the mentoring sjceran and gl to the learners as well

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 13 2009, 23:18 PM

Thanks ISSIGuderian, whoever you are

Edit: np Stefan, good luck with the exam!

Posted by: sjceran Jan 14 2009, 00:30 AM

Lol thanks mate, congrats with StG btw. Hopefully I'll see you on RO soon

Posted by: ISSIGuderian Jan 14 2009, 22:57 PM

Ex-ArXGuderian, ex-GuderianRSA, now StGGuderian (tho i deleted my main lol), kinda your mentor's ex-mentor

But anyway Stefan, I'll c ya online for a game or two

Posted by: sjceran Jan 15 2009, 01:14 AM

Yup, he was my old mentor a while ago. If he didn't delete his accounts so often I am 100% he would be in the top ten for each faction Good to see you again though

Lol I took the exam today and it was 2x as hard as I expected

Anyway, Chris I watched your replay, I will get a review either tomorrow or friday
-Stefan

Posted by: ISSIGuderian Jan 15 2009, 01:30 AM

True, rage-deleting is like the drug i simply cant quit lawl. K, i m gonna leave you guys alone now

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 15 2009, 23:07 PM

damn, and I thought I might get a second mentor

I'll never understand the rage-delete, my main has never been above .500 lol. I just get pissed and end up staying up WAY too late trying to get a couple more wins to make me feel better...

Posted by: sjceran Jan 18 2009, 16:35 PM

BurgerMiester v. Clearly

3:16- retreat capping rifle squad ASAP. They will not get the point in time, and you will simply lose it in a second anyway. Better to conserve the manpower

3:30- Good cut-off, but they aren’t too effective when there is an enemy squad right next to you.

4:25- Retreat rilfe squad from grens and reinforce, also get another rifle squad (350 manpower floating)

5:40- don’t retreat both of your rifles, just your flame engie. You could have won some territory

7:40- get an AT gun and a TRIAGE CENTER

8:30- he led your M8 into a trap and you lost it to a tellar mine. Don’t get too carried away with attacks until you know exactly which doctrine he chose. Always assume TH until proven otherwise. In addition, get a minesweeper engineer squad. That would have been really helpful late game.

8:42- engie lost needlessly

9:20- Double squads capping one point

10:00- good idea to get BAR because you will definitely need them later. However, you should still get another M8 to support your units.

10:40- retreat ASAP once you see that

11:40- Good SR. Get a supply depot upgrade. 18/74 pop cap. You should build more AT guns or M8s even if you don’t need them per say. You had 730 manpower and 90 fuel at this point Get a TRIAGE CENTER by now, and even a medic tent since you lost a lot of rifles

14:00- Good idea to get the TD and a M10, but you need to support your M10 with either Rifles, or AT guns.

17:43- Salvage the AT gun-SD upgrade by now for sure- get sticky bombs now since he has a lot of armor on the field (just to make your rifles a bit more offensive)

19:30- Fix AT gun

22:30- Strategy change! What you should do is realize his strengths and weaknesses. You should have 3-4 AT guns, get at least one Sherman, not M10’s, and get stickies for rifles. A wsc is also good for MG’s and snipers. You have the field advantage and a huge VP advantage. He has a lot of armor which makes him vulnerable to AT weapons. He will need to get a VP point to win, so your strategy should change from an offensive strat to a defensive strat. Make him come to you. Your rifles should solely be there to protect your VP’s, strategy points, and AT guns. Not to attack or capture points. (Unless you have the opportunity)

25:00- wasted M10- get a mine sweeper

26:00 Crocodile? Get a Sherman, not an purely anti-infantry unit. In addition, the croc really didn’t help you at all.

30:50- watch your micro- retreat the low health rifles and watch for incendiary grenades. Attack in one big push, have your AT guns in range of his armor, use an M10 as a scape goat, and your rifles to move in, with stickies, and AB to kill stragglers or defend against infantry.

33:00- a sniper would really help you, get a triage center, get a supply drop, not bombing run.

36:30- retreat that AB squad. A veteran AB squad is a priority to protect. Losing it is detrimental. You should have used SR or a Rifle Squad’s Suppressing Fire ability.

37:00- you have used too many M10’s with really no gain. Switch to Sherman’s with AT gun support instead.

38:00- PROTECT THAT VP AT ALL COSTS!!!! 417-17 was the score. You should have realized the impending Jagdpanther was going to come soon. You would have won the game in 30 seconds if you held onto that point. In addition, you could have sent rifles, or used a SR to protect it considering it was just a panzerschreck squad capping.

38:50- wasted bombing run

After watching the replay, you simply lost because of that VP. You could have won faster if you switched your strategy around because you used a few useless units (M10, croc) while you needed some helpful units (sniper, mg, shermans, more AT guns) Remember to defend your AT guns and pull them back ASAP when you see a big blob of grens coming. To slow the grenadiers, use SR or SF, or an MG. PE will get stronger the more time you give them, so you have to cut them off and win sooner than later.

You did a great job getting map control, and you held out nicely, you just need to follow my tips to improve your late game playing.

On the other hand, I wasn’t too sure which strategy you started with. Since you used 3 riflemen squads, I would say SayNoToKlaus. Here is a replay of how I use SayNoToKlaus vs a lv 11 PE player.

	saynotoklaus.rec
	Size: 228.38k
	Number of downloads: 18
	Player Name	Side	Team
	Imperialist		1
	F1NGGY		2

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 18 2009, 22:23 PM

Thanks Stefan!!!

Very helpful as usual. I was basically trying a riflestall strat with an M8 rush. I usually try to avoid engagement and cap as much as possible, then build a MP and M8 as quickly as possible. I definitely should have gone with an MG. I'm starting to think that going with a WSC earlier vs PE (esp gren-heavy strats) is better than the M8 rush I've been doing.

A question about the blob - it seems to be all the rage lately, especially with american players. As PE, SF or an MG should take care of that to a point, but how do you counter a blob of american infantry that usually includes rangers or airborne. I played a game yesterday where my opponent just moved like 6 squads around together to make me retreat ad nauseum. MGs don't work against fire-up b/c even with support, you have to retreat them and whatever support you have gets eaten up. In aother game it was just rangers (2-3 together) that took care of everything ( I went T3 in that one).

Another more general question: how long did it take you to learn the micro and macro of the game (or RTS in general?). It seems I am always making these serious mistakes and don't feel I'm getting better at adapting to different strategies. Everything I do is reactionary. Also, it seems that CoH is not as micro-intensive as other games (mainly starcraft although I haven't played SC online but I want to get SC2), and I wonder if I will really suck at games where a hgiher cpm is required. Just wondering how long the learning curve was for you.

Should I keep posting some replays or have you had enough ?

Lastly, you do realize you posted one of your super-secret smurf acct names ?

Thanks again,

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Jan 19 2009, 00:04 AM

Yeah, you can keep on posting, but I suppose you can just limit it to games where you really had no clue what to do.

As for countering blobs, the best Wehr counter is a gren blob with MG support. lol and to an extent that is true, which is the sad part. But really, nades are a great counter, MP44 units are great, and Ostwinds or P4's can really help you. In addition, mortars can really do some damage. But usually a US blob is hard to counter. (You can also use lots of mines to thin out the blob)


It was a good amount of time tbh. Probably 6 months before I wasn't a total noob and kicked out of every game I remember that in december 2007, I had my US win-lose ratio of 19-26. It took a while to learn everything, but after a year or so I got to lv 10. But i did practice alot lol.


Yup, although taht one is declassified I got to lv 12 on that name but then fell down to lv 10, so I deleted it. Now that I restarted, none of my games have been counting on it lol

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 19 2009, 01:39 AM

So there's hope for me yet! I've only been at it for maybe a year, probably a little less, and I only play a couple games a night 3-4 nights a week. Of course my win-loss balance for US now is 97-127 . Maybe I should start over or only play on my 2nd acct which is above .500.

How many other RTS games have u played? Am I right to be concerned b/c CoH comparatively isn't as micro-intensive?

I'll keep the replays to a minimum. I think your advice so far has taught me enough that I know more what I did wrong when I watch the replays....

Can't thank you enough!

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Jan 19 2009, 13:58 PM

Yup, there is tons of potential in you. The thing is I used to play like 10+ games a week when i got this game, and on multiple profiles. I deleted all of my old profiles, but I had a few that had 100+ games on it. I would suggest practicing on another acount, and then return to your main account for recognition. That is what I did.

This is the first game I ever played online. However, I used to play AoE2 for a long time. CoH needs a lot of micro in my opinion, but since I haven't played too many other RTS games, I really have no good comparisons. Other pros have said it isn't, so I am just going by there words basically.



Then I did my job Fortunately, mentoring isn't over yet, so we still have some time to kill. Hopefully I will be able to see you online to play some games. I wonder what happened to John though.

The only reason why I haven't been playing, other tham my internet of course, is that I am pretty sure they willl reset stats. Therefore, I wouldn't want to geet to lv 13 and then have it set back to 10 in a few weeks Plus, i am playing L4D, so I have some other pastimes instead of COH atm.

Stefan
-did you watch that replay

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 20 2009, 00:39 AM

I guess I should use my 'main' acct which is 97-127 as my practice account and develop my 'smurf' for recognition


NO WAY! . I thought you kids spent al lyour free time playing games online -especially pros like you


He said he was awaiting joining the air force, maybe he got the call...

I may be on tomorrow afternoon like 3-4ish because I have to stay home with my kid. I'll also add you to my other profile as a friend. That profile is: Burgermeister

I watched most of the replay - up until you destroyed the Tiger. I meant it tho, great game with lots of action. I need to watch it again because there was just so much happening on both sides and I want to see the rest of the mid/late game. I also want to watch it with fog of war on to see how you went about it....

Posted by: sjceran Jan 20 2009, 03:51 AM

lol, no I usually pick a game and play it to death


Sounds good I will try to be on too.


Yeah, it was a good replay. He got some lucky nades in there which i tried to dodge, but Those damn nebels too. That is a good idea to watch it with FOW on, but the game is nearly 900 kb, so it will be a long watch lol.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 25 2009, 16:26 PM

Hey,
Not much worth posting lately. I did have one question though. Just curious, you said during our game that you do't use hotkeys or one of those gridkeys programs. So you do everything with the mouse? I see in your game with Omar you had like a 35+ cpm. It seems all the pros have really high cpm in the 40-80 range. I've never gotten above 25. This probably doens't mean much, at least for CoH but it seems to be real important for Starcraft....

Posted by: sjceran Jan 25 2009, 20:52 PM

Well when I start I press F1 and E to build my first engie squad. Then I could press V and then B to make my barracks with my first engie squad. But that is rather new to me, and I usually just use the mouse. I normally just use Shift for queing and Tab for filtering. And of course I use F2 and R for riflemen. Other than that it is all mouse.

Yeha CPM don't really mean much because if you highlight a blob, you get 5+ clicks right there, so for CoH it doesn't really mean much. I wouldn't worry about it. Just concentrate on your units, not your speed.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 28 2009, 01:34 AM

An other question: how do you alter your BO/strategy against an american WSC start? This strat seems to give me much more trouble than the standard riflespam. Especially when rifles come shortly after. I lost a game yesterday on Langres where he set up an MG in the houses and built a fwd HQ. THe rifles then prevented me from flanking the houses (not to mention the reinforcing as I battled him). He secured 2 fuels this way and got M8s pretty quickly. I thought this was quite effective. I usually go T2-T3 against this with an early sniper build, but I always have a tough time pulling it out against WSC starts in general.

Posted by: sjceran Jan 28 2009, 18:33 PM

Well, I usually get a sniper after a two volks and two MG squads, and a bike if he gets an early sniper. Since I don't like T2, I end up going T3 for 2 Pumas, (One upgraded), and officer, a nebel werfer, one stug, and then I tech to t4. a WSC is a good counter to a undeveloped T2 start, so I don't use that, although many players do. You just have to protect your mortar.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 29 2009, 00:50 AM

Thanks. I don't think I've ever built an officer - how do you use him.

Chris


*edit: can u please tell me what are they changes to brits in the beta? Is the Brit-Wehr matchup a little better? I love playing wehr, but brits just kill me. Today I took down 3 trenches, 2 bofors, a 17lber and lost essentially to a single commmando squad because they picked up 1 schreck. I find it ridiculous that in a game that focuses on map control, brits can out-tech you with 2/5 of the map or less. I see why your playing L4D.....

Posted by: sjceran Jan 29 2009, 16:18 PM

I just use the officer's Observation ability tomake everything build faster. It is a great ability, and since I usually have a fuel gap between my first Puma and my second, that is the opputune moment to build him.

As for the Brits, I haven't been in the Beta for a while now, so I am not exactly sure what is going on anymore, but I know commandos were nerfed a little, shrecks don't drop as much, and overall, it calls for better gameplay.

Posted by: chriskaz Jan 31 2009, 00:41 AM

I've been thinking about this and it is unclear where your AT comes from. If he goes for quick M8s of rushed to T4, won't you have problems without Paks or shrecks? AFAIK, pumas can't stand up to an M8, and stugs can be circle-strafed.

Posted by: sjceran Jan 31 2009, 20:50 PM

Well, the Puma will actually beat an M8, unless luck is a factor, which does happen a lot. By luck, I mean shots missed or a bad case of the 5% bug. The Stug is great and even though it can be circle strafed, all you have todo s back it up into a cornor, or out of enemy lines. (always keep it supported with infantry because they are more vulnerable to stickies).

In addition, I normally get Storms with Schrecks to take out stragglers because a Puma plus schreck support makes a great combo. Now remember, if they do go WSC, they will probably go AB too, so they will have AT weapons. Therefore it will test your vehicle micro, but all in all it will make you a better player. Once you see an AT gun, pull back and repair. Use storms to attack in disguise and watch out for enemy snipers. You don't have to worry about BAR riflemen because they probably won't have them, but be cautious of US HMG AP rounds, which can kill a puma if you aren't careful.

You can tch down for a Pak and a mortar if you really need it, but most of the time a T3 strat will work out for you. You just need to preserve your units...like me in my replay

Posted by: chriskaz Feb 10 2009, 03:05 AM

Hey Stefan,
Hopefully its not too late to ask another question. I' ve been doing pretty well overall, winning the games I shoudl win and putting up a much better fight against higher level opponents. But one thing I'm having trouble with is winning as wehr on Semois. I have been trying to secure both sides with my pios at first while sending my volks/MGs to the middle. This works at first but then I lose the fuel and eventually the middle because there's just so much flanking to cover. Once that happens and I have to retreat, it's downhill as I get out-teched.
What's your approach to this map? Secure the middle first and don't worry about trying to deny the opponent fuel? What strat do ou use most? Thanks!
Chris

Posted by: sjceran Feb 10 2009, 22:07 PM

Hey Chris, there is always time for another question. I will get back to this question asap, because my internet is going on and off.

Posted by: sjceran Feb 11 2009, 20:54 PM

Normally, i just go for the middle. I tend to put an OP on my fuel point farely early, usually after my fourth T1 squad, which prevents it from being taken right away. The goal of Wehr is to get the middle, and then move over to get your opponents main strat point that connects the middle to their base. That is the chokepoint that is guarded on each side of the map by a house, which is perfect for MG's. If you can get thim into the famous "Semois Pin" then it is usually gg. Just be sure to wire off and places that will allow them to gain access to the unopposed side of the map.

Here is a little map to make it easier to explain.


You want to constrict the US player into their third of the map. Of course, this is easier said than done, but if you win the middle early on, you should be able to do this for a good portion of the match.

Remember, use wire to cut off flanks. The more wire the better. Mines will also help you out. Finally, never leave an MG unguarded in a house. This is just an easy kill for the US player. Always have at least on Volks squad protecting it, and use the volks to target any approaching flame engies.

Hope this helps!

Stefan

P.S. glad you are winning more

Posted by: sjceran Feb 22 2009, 14:40 PM

lol double post

Posted by: sjceran Feb 22 2009, 14:40 PM

Hey Chris, whats going on? Have you been playing lately? I haven't seen you on RO nor have you posted in 11 days. Anyway, I am still here to help you if you need it

-Stefan

Posted by: chriskaz Feb 23 2009, 03:02 AM

Hey Stefan,

Yeah, I'm still around. I'm still playing around 3-4 nights a week. Most of my games haven't been counting though which is annoying. I've been playing mostly wehr, and doing OK, but not great. I've been trying to avoid T2 lately and going T3 with mixed results. I think mainly this is b/c my puma and stug micro is horrendous.

With americans I'm inching my way to lvl 9 though! I'm ranked like 2800 and change.

Most of the time I know exactly what I did wrong. Usually it comes down to one engagement where I lost some squads or vehicles. From there on I'm playing catch-up and very rarely do I come back from something like that. Especially as wehr.

If you have any tips for clawing your way back from something like losing an early volks or your first puma/M8 early, I'd like to hear them.

Thanks for still offering to help. Maybe I'll post a reply or two so you can see if I've improved any (no review needed)...

Chris

Posted by: chriskaz Feb 26 2009, 04:54 AM

Hi Stefan,

Well I just got my ass totally handed to me by DoomFox so I thought I would post it. What I did wrong is in most cases obvious, but I'd still like to know what I could have done mid-game to at least have had a chance. There was so much wire that I couldn't even figure out how to flank his MG on the left.

My only thought is to just fortify on the right with some WSC units of my own and let him come to me, but I doubt that would have worked (even if he was a low-level opponent). Maybe BARS would have helped but I doubt it...

Thanks,

Chris



Attached File(s)

	loss_to_doomfox.rec
	Size: 280.35k
	Number of downloads: 10
	Player Name	Side	Team
	DerTeufel		1
	DoomFox		2

Posted by: sjceran Feb 27 2009, 00:32 AM

Hey, sorry for the late response, I have been busy lately. You aren't out of the game if you lose your first squad, and I usually lose my first M8 It does hurt your forces, but it probably won't end the game for you, unless you are down already. The best advice is too keep on fighting, and to replace what you lost. It is better to have the extra unit on the field then to follow a strict teching order.

As for the replay, I will watch very soon

Posted by: sjceran Mar 2 2009, 23:30 PM

I watched the replay and yeah, there was not much you could do. I suppose you could have tried for a fast M8 and neglected the grenades in order to clear some wire, but you would have to micro that M8 pretty well. I would have also used wire on the right side in order to block off as much as possible.

Then you could get a WSC and try to pin down that side, but then walking stukas would have destroyed your defenses

Don't feel bad though, doomfox is one of the top Wehr players, so you faired well against him

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 3 2009, 04:13 AM

Hey Stefan,

Sorry for not answering you in-game tonight. I was in a tough one against brits - hanging on for dear life. I can barely keep it together much less type up a whisper. I won though, even though he spammed like 4-5 commando squads. I went T1-T4 and was accused of 'tank-spamming'
Thanks for watching that replay. I didn't feel so bad when I saw he was ranked like 3rd! Recently I feel like I'm getting better, although I have some bad days where I revert to my stupid mistakes.

Chris

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 7 2009, 02:34 AM

Woohoo level 9!

Sorry but I had to share this with someone....my wife was thoroughly unimpressed

Posted by: sjceran Mar 8 2009, 19:42 PM

Congratulations!!! You definitely deserve it. You put a lot of hardwork in to it and there is nothing more gratifying than a new level Now work on getting your butter-bar (lv 10)

Lv 9 is a big step. You will now be paired up with higher level players, but I have confidence in you, so you will have no problem (It is probably a good idea to smurf a bit so you get used to your new opponents)

lol no one in my family is excited about my new ranks either

Posted by: sjceran Mar 8 2009, 19:44 PM

double post

Posted by: Garmeth Mar 9 2009, 00:32 AM

How much GR gold would you give me if I got level 9 SjCeran ?

Posted by: sjceran Mar 9 2009, 00:57 AM

None of mine

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 17 2009, 10:18 AM

Hey Stefan,

I've been following your advice and playing mostly on my other account. So yesterday I decide to go with my main. I played someone on Semois who blocked off the right hand side with sandbags/TT instead of wire making it completely impassable. Suffice it to say once he took the church, he knew exactly which way I would be coming at him. Is this common? Seems a little cheap to me but I lost and am probably bitter .

Whats the best/quickest way to get put a hole in sandbags early before the M8 comes out?

Posted by: sjceran Mar 17 2009, 15:28 PM

Yeah, that is pretty much impassable until you get armor or some sort of AT.

And with rangers or AB, it will take forever for RR's or bazookas to destroy them. You can use the democharges from AB squads to clear it. But really, it is hard to get by early game.

You can use flame engineers to attack ground on the wooden fence near the rigthside VP to get around. THat is what I usually do if I get blocked off.

Semois is very hard to get back into if you get blocked off, so if that does happen, fortify the left side with mines, wire, and infantry units to make it hard for them to get by.

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 19 2009, 01:32 AM

Thanks Stefan. Semois is definitly my worst map. I lose more often on that map with both factions than any other. Not really sure why, other than I usually get pushed off the middle and then can never regain it....

Great tip about the fence, I could have done that.

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 19 2009, 03:42 AM

Rant elements deleted

How does one beat better PE players?. They just build grens, run them around together to make me retreat on one side, use an inf HT to do the same on the other side. Then just wait for me to try to cap something and run there. I end up retreating, retreating, retreating and lose the whole map. You need such overwhelming numbers to win a battle that you can't push'em back. By the time I have my MP up, he's waiting with either a Marder, Schrecks or the AT HT. If I build an AT First, then he rushes his infantry at it. So it sits in my base with all my men.

Sorry for the rant but I really have NO IDEA how to play against PE. Riflestall only works against players who really don't know how to play and let me cap most of the map. Any decent player can stop it easy.

Posted by: sjceran Mar 21 2009, 22:49 PM

lol I don't mind the rants.

I will try to find some replays for you on how to beat PE.

I will also give you a thorough post on how to beat PE too, its just that my internet will go out soon.

They are a pain in the arse though. I played a PE player on Semois and he had an AC out in 4 minutes. Luckily I got my M8 out in time in conjunction with some mines to kill all 3 of them.

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 22 2009, 00:30 AM

Is there another effective strat other than riflestall/Say no to Klaus? Part of the problem I think (and have been told in game) is that this strat is predictable. PE players know exactly whats coming - the quick M8. Therefore, they know to protect and cutoff fuel with their superior infantry early, and get the counter to the M8 out quickly. In my case, this counter is usually out before my M8. I guess this is a longwinded way of saying that some variety is needed to keep PE on their toes, but I only know the riflestall way...

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Mar 22 2009, 23:45 PM

Well, you can be very aggressive and decap everything, or you can go from riflestall with your first few rifles, to a very aggressive stance once you have 3-4 rifles and a flame engie. This works very well unless they go for a fast AC. In that case, you need mines and and a fast M8. Inf HT's are a sign of a delayed AC or they are going to skip straight to T4 for a AT HT. If this happens, then get an AT gun first, then an M8, but everything should be supported by rifles.

Minesweeper engies are a must unless you see them going SE right away.

I will get some replays against PE soon. Most of them are against low level PE players 8-10, but it should still help you out.

Posted by: sjceran Mar 27 2009, 19:56 PM

Don't worry chris, I haven't forgotten about you, I have been a bit busy lately. I will help you out this weekend no doubt

Luckily, the patch will give some nerfs to PE

Stefan

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 27 2009, 23:00 PM

Cool. I've lost my lvl 9 and about 800 points - all because of losses to PE. Their infantry is just too much. One loss was to a lvl 2 player - you don't need much skill to blob super-powerful infantry.
Funny the last guy I played absolutely wiped me off the map and was bitching about airborne when I complained about PE infantry being so strong vs rifles. Wierd b/c AB wouldn't do sh@@ against his ton of PGs with G43s and MP44s. Once again the ATHT was waiting for my M8

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Mar 28 2009, 20:07 PM

Hmm, do you have the replays? Most likely, the level 2 was a smurf. Sorry about your lv 9, but you'll get it back.

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 28 2009, 22:47 PM

Nah, I watched the replays and deleted them. Most of the time I got tired of retreating and decided to try to fight it out before I lost the entire map. Never works. I'm going to try to add a WSC before I rush to M8s if I see a ton of PGs. A well-placed MG might allow me to get a mass-retreat or even deal some casualties. Hopefully this will allow me to get some fuel capped. Not to mention snipers would help....

I'm clawing my way back to lvl 9. Actually getting closer with Wehr, which I'm happy about b/c I consider Wehr a much harder faction to play. Many thanks go to you b/c of your great advice the last couple months.

Posted by: chriskaz Mar 29 2009, 04:03 AM

Here's a replay that demonstrates the crap I'm talking about. At the 6 min mark he ran 2 inf HTs with 2 squads each into my base and raped me. I don't think even retreating all my squads would have helped. Check out his answer to my question on how to stop this - "tanks" . LOL - I didn't even have time to get my MP up!?!

Chris


Attached File(s)

	loss_to_fuckin_pe.rec
	Size: 205.2k
	Number of downloads: 11
	Player Name	Side	Team
	BurgerMeister		1
	Rorro		2

Posted by: sjceran Mar 29 2009, 14:46 PM

Lol, well tanks would be a correct answer if you could get them out

I will take a look.

Posted by: sjceran Mar 29 2009, 14:58 PM

Hmm, I don't think that is the best choice tbh. A fast M8 is truly the only good counter to PE's early game. Now if he does a Krausen type strategy where he just spams infantry, then a WSC can help, but I would always advise a M8 first, then an AT gun or two, then BARs or a wsc. This is mostly due to how OP the AC is. It can destroy a HMG in a building which is really wrong, and a sniper is nothing for the damn armored car.

Posted by: sjceran Apr 3 2009, 20:18 PM

Ok, so after a good amount of time with the patch, I strongly suggest you get a fast M8 on every occasion. Not because BARs suck, or M8's are great, but because PE players are going for a infantry spam strategy now (from what I have played). They aren't ahrd to beat, but early BARs really aren't worth it.

For Wehr, I would also suggest a fast M8, but if they get T2, get nades first. This will help you out against infantry. BARs should come after your M8 and first AT gun.

Posted by: chriskaz Apr 3 2009, 22:08 PM

Thanks Stefan. I've played one inf heavy strat and one 'usual' strat iwth inf HTs. Is it me or did the inf HT get a speed buff? It circle strafed my M10 with a schreck squad in it and killed it. Also, my sherman couldn't catch up to it and it would run away before I could get enough shots off to kill it.

Still having trouble with brits also. Is there a tank bug vs emplacements? I had a vet1 stug take 8-9 shots at a Bofors and it did absolutely no damage at all (I guess it was over-repaired, but NO damage, nto even a sliver taken off?)

So I should see you in the top20 soon or are you still using your internet connection as an excuse

Posted by: sjceran Apr 3 2009, 23:37 PM

You bet lol

I will try to rank up, but I honestly don't have the time atm. Hopefully over the next few week I will.

As far as the Bofors, that may be a bug. It should do some damage after that many shots, especially since over repair got a slight nerf.

The HT does look faster. It caught up to my M8, but it could be because it was on a road and I wasn't. Roads increase vehicular speeds. To slow it down though, you should use a lot of mines against PE. Also, versus a heavy inf strategy, be sure to get flame engineers to push them out of cover. They work wonders.

Posted by: chriskaz Apr 4 2009, 00:37 AM

Thanks. Maybe I'll post the stug thing on the bug thread. It seemed wierd to me. Regardless I still got absolutely crushed by the Brits as usual...

THe HT defintiely wasn't on a road. It was Ango and it was moving from 1 side to the other. I chased an inf and mortar HT with a sherman and M10 to no avail. Then when I brought them back to repair, the inf HT with schrecked squad came up and circled the sherman, killing it, then retreated before the M10 could get it - lightning fast.

Maybe I'll have to start playing PE now that they are more balanced.

Posted by: sjceran Apr 9 2009, 21:39 PM

I am still downloading the patch, so it will be a few days before I am on again


-Stefan

Posted by: chriskaz Apr 10 2009, 00:10 AM

np Stefan. Me too. Also, I'm still deciding whether to get ToV. I like the idea of new units and think I will maybe be at a disadvantage without them. Don't care too much about the single players campaigns though...I never did the OF ones. Although now I'm thinking it may be fun to get to know PE and the Brits now that they may be more balanced.

Posted by: sjceran Apr 11 2009, 00:30 AM

I was planning to get it today, but Best Buy was backordered. I am only 43% done with the torrent for the 1.38 gb patch too.

From what I have been hearing, the new units are all pretty good. The t17 is apparently really good, while the new Shwimwagon for PE is amazing in its own right. It can lay mines and use SE right away!!! I don't think that is fair but ehh.

Well, hopefully I will get online soon Chris because I really want to try those new maps and game modes.

Posted by: Garmeth Apr 11 2009, 04:16 AM

Hey Sjceran, lol new maps are kinda shit . They tried to add flooded plains in to 1v1 automatch but it was removed soon after. It was really anti American I Think. I looked at the layout of hinderdam. About 15 buildings on the main island coupled with 2 paths to get there it is so pro-wehr. I played inverse on the beach map, ask him how 2 mgs made it impossible for him to escape his base . Tell ur Internet connection to hurry up so I can own your ass again . jk jk . Cya on RO soon (I hope).

Posted by: chriskaz Apr 11 2009, 12:24 PM

I downloaded the patch from that guy who hosted it on his server. I took one night to donwload compared to a day and a half using relic's downloader and I was only 50% done!

Which maps will be added to automatch? Yesterday there were no new ones. I played a skirmish on ruins of rouen and it seemed to be a Wehr favorable map - lots of buildings tight together. It was hard for my M8 to move around quickly.

I guess a lot of former strategies may not be valid anymore. As a "senior strategy specialist" I guess you are obligated to buy ToV. Better get to work on those new strategies Lemme you if you need someone to try them out against XD

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Apr 12 2009, 15:07 PM

I am not sure which strategies are good or bad anymore. Considering everything is in 2.301 mode again, anything goes I assume. Due ot the bugs, Wehr is incredibly OP I would assume.

I will be on soon though, but no stores in my area have a copy of ToV believe it or not

Posted by: Garmeth Apr 12 2009, 15:11 PM

Weird there is no copies.. At least its selling well so thq can stay in business. I got mine off steam.

Posted by: sjceran Apr 12 2009, 15:18 PM

Yeah, I am hesitant to buy it off of steam though. I'd much rather have a hard copy, but steam is the only option atm. I suppose I can just wait until Best Buy gets a new shipment sometime this month.

Posted by: chriskaz Apr 16 2009, 04:06 AM

Hey Stefan,

So I bought ToV a couple days ago and have been messing around with skirmish and some automatch games. I like the new units, at least those on the ami side. One major observation is that it seems rifles are REALLY fragile now. The new schwimmwagon can put a hurting on them and crushes engies. Vanilla volks also can beat rifles most of the time it seems, but I haven't tracked carefully what cover the squads were in. MGs also seem to do a lot more damage in addition to suppression. I've had wehr MGs with 20+ kills, which was unheard of (for me) in 2.4, even if they stayed alive the whole game.

I guess these observations and the MG bug is why everyone seems to be playing axis at the moment. Every time I automatch the ratio is like 8-1 in favor of axis.

Hard for me to say what the new strats will be. I actually think both the Rax and WSC are needed, which puts a hurting on teching. BARS are needed for rifles to stand a chance, but rushing to MP and the M8 would also help if you can get there before wehr gets to T2 (which can be pretty fast since volks are stronger and the schwimmwagon can stop engie capping). Well, these are just my random first impressions....

Hopefully you have ToV now.
Chris

Posted by: sjceran Apr 16 2009, 21:12 PM

I have played a bit and I agree with you. I am still going for a fast M8 because there are a lot of MG abusers around. It makes it very hard for rifles to flank. Basically, I tend to go for grenades and M8's early. I get grenades if I have a lot of fuel, otherwise I will tech right to a M8. Then I micro my M8 like crazy

Volks got a small buff, I think, but it wasn't listed. There were times when they beat my rifles in a 1v1 in equal cover, where my rifles should have won due to the close distance. As of now, I am just waiting because I am a little fed up with all of these bugs. To be honest, 2.400 was great, and the ToV patch (the game will be awesome!) ruined it for me.

Posted by: Garmeth Apr 16 2009, 22:18 PM

I can never beat volks when I charge them in yellow cover .

Posted by: chriskaz Apr 16 2009, 23:48 PM

Yeah, the bugs suck, but I think it will be only temporary. Its a good time for me to get familiar with the new units and what works and what doesn't. It always seems to take me longer to 'catch up' to everyone else when there's a patch. Also, maybe I'll start playing PE or Brits if they are more balanced now. I've avoided them for the most part till now....

Do you know if anyone has compared the effectiveness of the old M8 vs the new unit? I wonder which is the better choice if you're going to rush to it.

Posted by: sjceran Apr 21 2009, 21:10 PM

Apparently the T17 is awesome against infantry. The only problem is it is very weak against AT weapons of any sort. I have been using the T17 and I lost a game due to one mine. I sort of prefer the M8, but I still need to use the t17 a bit more. It is Op against PE, but who cares

Posted by: chriskaz Aug 3 2009, 03:40 AM

Hey Stefan,

So I've played abunch of games now. All my losses have come against OF factions - surprise surprise. I'm having major problems with PE - riflestall is just not working for me. Not sure why as both players blobbed 3 G43 squads together which should have freed up the other side of the map (wrecked and industrial riverbed). But it seemed they always got there before I could finish capping. Midgame ATHT protected those squads from my M8 and it was gg due to lack of map/resources.

Clearly I've a lot to remember......at least there was no ITHT baserush

Chris

Posted by: sjceran Aug 13 2009, 21:27 PM

lol sorry for not getting here sooner, I have been really busy with things lately. I will get back to you ASAP with a good response. Have you tried the SIS strategy yet?

Posted by: chriskaz Aug 14 2009, 01:28 AM

Hey Stefan, no problem. I've been on vacation so haven't been playing much. After I posted I did much better the next couple games. I checked out the SIS strategy, but I didn't see much about adapting it to play vs PE. I doubt it is that similar.

[edit 8/14] I definitely need help with the new PE strat that everyone seems to be using. Start with a ton of G43 grens and set up a fwd HQ to heal/reinforce them right near a cutoff point. Some have even done this on both sides of the map, so you are forced to take them on. The only game (of about 5) that I won I went straight to TD without any rifle upgrades (sort of the SIS), but this was unusual in that I was able to hold enough fuel to get there (but had to build the M10 first b/c I could't wait for the 90 for theSherm). Rifles just don't seem to be strong enough with even cover and numbers....esp with the fwd HQ.

Chris