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Posted by: methuselah Nov 18 2008, 20:16 PM

good luck vOddy you are going to need it. I love GDI (all of them) but I struggle with them so I've gone over to Nod. You have taken on the challenge of getting me to suck less with the very worst of the GDI factions.

you, my friend, are going to earn that mentoring badge

here are two reps where I got my fellow staffer Discodave to play with me last night. Unless you are really a masochist don't watch more than the first few minutes of either game because that is where I have the most trouble. Game 1 my initial thrust was pretty effective and I was so stunned I sat there for a few minutes and did not know what to do so there is little point in watching me torture a crippled Dave for no reason. Game 2 is a better one to watch the first few minutes but it quickly turns into a 50 minute long stalemate during which time I mostly kept checking to see if Juggs had shown up in my build queue because I so needed siege assistance.

And never remembered Ceramic Firehawks


Attached File(s)

	11_17_Zocom_2.KWReplay
	Size: 1.02mb
	Number of downloads: 74
	Player Name	Side	Team
	|DUKE_NUKEM|		0
	methuselah*		0

	11_17_Zocom_1.KWReplay
	Size: 252.63k
	Number of downloads: 84
	Player Name	Side	Team
	|DUKE_NUKEM|		0
	methuselah*		0

Posted by: vOddy Nov 18 2008, 20:26 PM

Heh heh, alright. Will watch 'em when I get to my dad next week. I have a question, as well:

Which sides are you most interested in learning how to fight, and on which maps? I mean, do you want to learn all in-cheese builds on Tourney Tower or learn to play real long games on skill-based maps like Decision?

Of course, sooner or later, you will learn everything. Just asking which you would like to start with.
If you don't mind, I'll start with Tournament Decision. It's like the "standard" map.

Edit: By the way, add me in game by typing /friend vOddy .If It doesn't work, it's cause I am not online at that moment. If I'm on your f list, you can obs my games live ( if you don't find that too boring ). It's the best way to learn. Just keep in mind, everything I do (when playing seriously) I do for a reason. For example if I go for 5 APC + rocketmen rush, you can't just copy that and do it every game. You can only do it in the same situation as I did it in. I'll try to explain why I do and what I do with the replays I upload here.

Also, if I do one strategy on Tournament Decision, don't try it on Rift. Rift is much more of a "Spam tanks and have huge battles" map, and decision is more of a "Lemme tech up and own you with firehawks" map.

Same thing goes with Small Town USA and Tournament Dustbowl. They're just totally different maps.

Posted by: methuselah Nov 18 2008, 20:42 PM

I actually hate Rift only because I don't do well there. For some reason my eco management on Rift is not as good as it is on other maps for reasons I do not get. I am not interested in all in's except maybe how to beat them if need be. I am interested in pretty much any match up on any map focusing initially, if possible, of vNod and Reaper.

My main problem is that initial harass. Mine is inevitably not very good and my counter management is also not very good. So I struggle much worse as any GDI to that first run or two of bikes or the quick dev/cor combo than I do playing as Nod or Scrin.

Edit: Don't misunderstand my dislike for Rift means I don't want to start there. That makes it a perfect place to start because the map itself is peachy it is my play that is problematic. Thanks!

Posted by: vOddy Nov 18 2008, 20:49 PM

You don't have problems with GDI Orcas? Interesting. I am impressed, young padawan.
I allways overspend in defense against them because they scare the shit out of me. I've learned how to handle them properly lately, though. Haven't lost vs a GDI in like 100 games. But still, I used to lose to them A LOT.

Anyway, since I'm at my mom's place and can't play Kane's wrath or upload replays, I'm gonna start with some theory Don't worry, nothing huge.

You allways need a decent economy. If you lose harvesters, rebuild them untill you reach this level of economy again.

Very early game - 4 - 5 harvesters. As soon as you can, you should increase this to 5 harvesters. If you're going for a fast TECH bo and you're not exping, and the map has a big tiberium field like decision, you can just go 4 harvs, scout, then straight to five harvs before getting any tanks. I actually go straight to 6 harvs a lot of times (of course I interrupt my harv buildage to get a scout, and if he goes for some rush, I also interrupt to get one or two tanks / some pitbulls to defend against a bike / tank / orca rush).

Mid game - 6 - 7 harvesters.

Preferably, get your seventh harvester on your expansion.

Late game 8+ harvesters. If you're on tournament tower, never have more than 8 harvesters. Also on Small Town USA, never have more than 10. Your field will dry out too quickly, you need to conserve your cash, unless you're going for some crazy all in tank charge.

However on maps like Dustbowl and Heaven And Héll, there's not much of a limit to how many harvesters you should have. I guess having more than 16 is just stupid, but how
often do you get that?

Edit: The only situations where it is acceptable not to have 5 harvesters in the early game is when fighting an all in rush, or when performing an all in rush.

Posted by: methuselah Nov 18 2008, 21:05 PM

Theory is good

I do have trouble with Orca's but I think there are two main reasons why they are not the bane of my existence

1. there are not as many good GDI'ers as there are the other 2 factions
2. Orca's, to me, are the most counterable of the first harass options

Don't get me wrong you could use ZOCOM Orca's against me and school me that is not my point. My point is that with proper scouting you should have some degree of a chance to stop Orca's. With bikes not so much. Dev/cor takes as much time as Orca's but I have a harder time countering it because the combo itself is counter to everything I can throw at it.

Posted by: sp12.07 Nov 18 2008, 22:02 PM

Omg wow, Voddy's mentoring.

I'm going to be taking notes from afar.

Posted by: Hogo Nov 19 2008, 10:02 AM

Agreed, and Methu You lucky guy Voddys awesome

Posted by: PANCZASU Nov 19 2008, 13:24 PM

Same.
Don't worry Hogo, we'll play asap.

Posted by: sp12.07 Nov 20 2008, 11:29 AM

Omg lol, the last post disappeared.

Posted by: vOddy Nov 20 2008, 13:37 PM

Because I wanted it to be a secret that only my Mentee would see :

Posted by: atdsutm Nov 20 2008, 15:43 PM

i am so filled with envy

Posted by: sp12.07 Nov 20 2008, 20:40 PM

Completely agreed TBH.

Posted by: vOddy Nov 21 2008, 15:20 PM

To answer your question, SP_12, the answer is


~~~~~YES~~~~~

I will do as you asked me to do.

Posted by: vOddy Nov 22 2008, 13:43 PM

Will be able to review your replays in 2 days, Methuselah.

Posted by: methuselah Nov 23 2008, 17:31 PM

No problem. I'm terrified it is not as bad as my RA3 matches where I truly have no idea what certain units do.....but ZOCOM is my least played side of the 9 so I find myself stumped occasionally as to what I should be doing.

That is not good.

Posted by: methuselah Nov 24 2008, 01:52 AM

If you have not watched the replays yet watch these instead. These are from today. They are back to back games I beat someone decent on TT and then got spanked on Rift.....I really need some help on Rift. I just can't get my eco right and I think that is a huge problem.




Attached File(s)

	11_23_for_vOddy.KWReplay
	Size: 127.99k
	Number of downloads: 69
	Player Name	Side	Team
	Legion*		1
	rush_noob		2

	11_23_for_vOddy_2.KWReplay
	Size: 355.35k
	Number of downloads: 61
	Player Name	Side	Team
	Legion*		1
	Chingow1		2

Posted by: Discodave Nov 24 2008, 11:59 AM

Are you implying that im crap Meth, Im shocked


Only joking lol

Posted by: methuselah Nov 24 2008, 19:12 PM

nah you know better than that. You have beaten me waaay too many times for me to say anything like that. Now that I think about even if you had not ever beaten me I still would not have said that it's not my style.

I suppose I should clarify. What I was saying there was that these replays are a week more current, not that my play has changed much but maybe a little, and that I beat someone pretty handily who's rank was 700ish and then got spanked by someone who's rank was like 3k.

My point is not that rank means that much it is mainly that we went from a map I am comfortable on to one I struggle on and I think that is as much a part of the problem as is my lack of ZOCOM skilz

Posted by: vOddy Nov 25 2008, 08:32 AM

Playing on Rift is hard without orcas. The only good thing Zocom has on rift is the huge field in the middle that you can marvest.

Posted by: methuselah Nov 25 2008, 16:55 PM

I have not gotten to a point yet where I'm good enough with any side on Rift to notice ZOCOM's inferiority. It seems to me that on the more open maps like Rift that bikes are good, as are orca's meaning anything fast, anything hit and run, is pretty effective there.

Well Nod has been my main side for all of KW and I suck on Rift with Nod. It is purely eco. The starting field is small and you have multiple expansion options. Inevitably I am out of money early just sitting there waiting which does not normally happen on most maps. I played Totte this weekend a few times on that map I need to watch what he does because he just destroyed me over and over again and a big part of it was simply money. One match his income per minute was almost double mine.....he is better than me to begin with but even if he wasn't I'm not going to win many matches like that

Posted by: vOddy Nov 25 2008, 17:35 PM

Haven't had any informative games on Rift that you can learn from, but I played this game on Decision that shows how to counter a devourer tank + corruptor rush. Decision is one of the easier maps to counter it on, because of its size, but I still think it shows how to counter the rush effectively.

The rest of the game sucked, though. I played like shit before and after the rush. Played sloppily, lost engineers, etc. Couldn't play because of the damn lag. The only thing I did good was counter the devourer rush.

	Mentor___Vs_Devourers.KWReplay
	Size: 739.76k
	Number of downloads: 57
	Player Name	Side	Team
	RPWvOddy*		1
	Someone top 30		2

Posted by: methuselah Nov 26 2008, 02:16 AM

lol! I love your opponents name

Posted by: vOddy Nov 26 2008, 16:38 PM

I'll download your replays now. Will review them later. In the meantime, have a look at this replay that shows a viable tactic vs Black Hand on Decision. As always, this is faction and map specific. DO NOT try doing this vs vNod, though of course you can learn from this and use the knowledge you got when fighting any of the Nod sides. But if you're gonna try this specific tactic, do it only vs the black hand.

	Mentor_vs_BH.KWReplay
	Size: 599.05k
	Number of downloads: 66
	Player Name	Side	Team
	vOddy		1
	Someone top 5		2

Posted by: vOddy Nov 26 2008, 16:58 PM

Just watched the first game. What you should have done better is:

1 Building placement

Build your war factory next to your refinery, so that when your harvester is unloading its tiberium it gets healed. Helps a lot vs pitbull rushes and other things. Also, you put your radar scan building (operation's center?) up front towards your enemy. If he had been good he would have taken it out. It was an unecesary risk. I can understand that you put your tech center and reclamator hub up at those risky places, because when you're at tier 3 tech level you have sonic emitters anyway. But with the radar, it was a bad risk to take.

2 Scouting

ALWAYS be paranoid of orcas. You should have used radar scan, and you should have snuck the pitbull you had into the enemy base to see if he was going orcas. If he would have gone orcas, you would have died.

3

Unit control:

When you saw he had pitbulls out, you realized he was not going for orcas that early on. You didn't get anti air during that time, which you shouldn't have done anyway. you should however have been more careful of the orcas later on. Anyway, what you did wrong was, when your predator tank came out of your factory to repel the pitbulls, you moved it out into the open. He could have killed it, then gone for your harvesters, if he had microed. You should have let your tank stand just at the edge of your factory's repair radius. That way it could have protected your tiberium field, while being repaired, and protected by your Rocket Harvesters. His pitbulls wouldn't have a chance if you had done that. Luckily for you, he didn't micro them so you survived anyway.

4

Economy management:

You built a second predator tank when his pitbulls had been repelled, when all you needed was the one you had.
You also only had 3 harvesters. You can NOT tech up to marv or firehawks with less than 4 harvesters unless you're like traveler 59 or something. You need at least 4, preferably 5.

Posted by: vOddy Nov 26 2008, 23:46 PM

Just watched the second game.

In the beginning of it, you played alright. You managed to scout his base with a rifleman so you knew he was not going orcas, and you did not need to use a pitbull to scout.

Your build order wasn't bad. But after you took the expansion, you started to do huge mistakes.
You had only one war factory, but over 8000 money. It is not acceptable to have that much money. You should have put one barracks down and pumped missile squads as well, before unpacking your MCV to take the blue tiberium expansion. You would easily have won if you just scouted more and had more multi-tasking.

Being unable to do multiple things at the same time and bad awareness cost you the game.
For example, he could have owned you easily with orcas because you did not use radar scan and you did not sneak in a pitbull to scout his base. Luckily he didn't do this.
Your hammerheads were shooting at his predator tanks while missile squads took them out. He was owning your harvesters with a few rocket men when your nearby predators could have ran them over.
Your predator tanks were standing next to his rocket men shooting at the enemy predator tanks. You should have told them to run over the rocket men -and- shoot at the enemy tanks. That way you would have killed both of his unit types.
He attacked your main expansion while your whole army was at your blue tiberium expansion. Then you didn't bring all of your army in at once, instead you noticed parts of it and sent it in in waves. You should have pressed Q to send in your whole army.

Posted by: methuselah Nov 28 2008, 17:28 PM

Keep it coming. You will find I do two things wrong all the time and against better opponents they inevitably cost me

1. poor rescouting. I've gotten to where my initial scout is decent and timely but I get distracted and forget how important rescouting is
2. eco management. I do one of two things 1) I get too few harvesters out either because I am a moron or because someone harassed me and I over compensate (as I did above) and then can't afford the critical mass of harve's to get rolling or 2) I float trying to decide what to spend the money on.

I know it is better to build something rather than die with the bank full but sometimes in practice, especially when I'm stumped, which I so often am atm as ZOCOM, because I don't know what the appropriate counter is. I also need to just start building firehawks if for no other reason to remember they are there. I did not use them much when playing vGDI (which is where my main GDI exp comes from) and that is reflected by me just not realizing they are part of the arsenal.

Posted by: vOddy Nov 29 2008, 17:18 PM

Firehawks are vital when playing against vGDI and Steel Talons. You may not have to use them against the other sides, but if you have cash flow, get them.

Posted by: methuselah Dec 4 2008, 15:16 PM

The day after you posted the BH strat, and before I had time to watch it, I drew that same exact matchup in and AM and just got crushed. I'll watch the rep but I've just been buried this last week so I've not been a very good mentee

Posted by: vOddy Dec 10 2008, 00:41 AM

I'll upload more replays then

Posted by: methuselah Dec 10 2008, 03:49 AM

I'll take 'em. Don't forget to get me one on Rift

Posted by: vOddy Dec 12 2008, 06:24 AM

I have only played vs n00bs on Rift . But if someone good doesn't pop up on that map soon, I'm going to play a game where I just bash someone on that map.

Anyway, here's a funny replay of me owning a dev rusher.

	LoL.KWReplay
	Size: 303.39k
	Number of downloads: 66
	Player Name	Side	Team
	vOddy		1
	Dev rusher n00b		2

Posted by: vOddy Dec 13 2008, 16:49 PM

Vs a guy who was ranked 64, so not the best of the best.. He didn't play like mainstream Nod either, but I hope this can help you anyway.

	Mentor_vs_turtle_Nod.KWReplay
	Size: 301.21k
	Number of downloads: 51
	Player Name	Side	Team
	RPWvOddy*		1
	Someone ranked 64		2

	Rift_Mentor.KWReplay
	Size: 357.86k
	Number of downloads: 48
	Player Name	Side	Team
	RPWvOddy*		1
	Someone ranked 64		2

Edit: The pitbulls were there because I expected Stealth Tanks.

Posted by: vOddy Dec 16 2008, 16:33 PM

Me playing vs a n00b on automatch. I played like shit this game (Like I always do on automatch. I get sloppy) and he played bad, too. But I hope this shows you a good pattern of play on Rift.

I'm sorry I haven't been able to get any good games on Rift to show you. Bear with me.


Attached File(s)

	Mentor_Rift_nOOb.KWReplay
	Size: 386.63k
	Number of downloads: 51
	Player Name	Side	Team
	vOddy*		1
	---		2

Posted by: methuselah Dec 17 2008, 15:54 PM

Thanks vOddy that is exactly what I needed I'll give them a watch today. Whether you played to perfection or whether your opponent was typical does not matter. My problem is eco management specific to this map inevitably my harass cripples my eco or my macro cripples my game plan and I'm sure this will help.

Thanks!

Posted by: vOddy Dec 18 2008, 12:47 PM

Good news, Methuselah. With 1.2's economy you will have an easier time playing games on Rift.

Posted by: methuselah Dec 18 2008, 16:57 PM

So with the lower cost of harvesters you think that will help me on this map? I am curious as to what you early thoughts on ZOCOM are......Juggs seem really, really good and I missed them before.........

I can only imagine what it will be like now.

Posted by: vOddy Dec 18 2008, 17:03 PM

Zocom is exactly the same as before, except you have an easier start because of the harvester cost.

Maybe you can use Zorcas, I don't know. Haven't tried. But I'll be playing exactly like I did in 1.1.

Posted by: vOddy Dec 20 2008, 15:03 PM

This shows how to cause Nod's early bikes to be a waste of money. If the enemy bike rushes and you've done this, you've pretty much won.

	Methuselah.KWReplay
	Size: 285.72k
	Number of downloads: 75
	Player Name	Side	Team
	vOddy*		1
	~~		2

It's all about scouting. If you see it coming, it's np. If he would have prevented me from scouting it would have been a different story.

Posted by: vOddy Dec 21 2008, 14:48 PM

Is there anything in particular you need help with? I'll upload a rep of that in this case.

Posted by: vOddy Dec 22 2008, 01:11 AM

This is not an amazing game, but VERY VERY GREAT to learn from. You can pretty much copy this playstyle if you play vs GDI as Zocom on this map. My enemy was ranked 37, so it should work in most automatches. Just keep in mind that I was constantly scouting for orcas, and I didn't see any. If I would have seen orcas, I would have gotten some anti air,

	Mentor_Tower.KWReplay
	Size: 281.03k
	Number of downloads: 78
	Player Name	Side	Team
	vOddy*		1
	Someone ranked 37		2

Posted by: methuselah Dec 22 2008, 16:44 PM

No with the patch change it is too early for me to tell much specifically. Keep the replays and the thoughts coming I need to post a few as well but this has been more of an adjustment than I thought it would be. Thanks!

Edit: The faction specific/map specific stuff is good. Keep it up it really helps!

Posted by: methuselah Dec 22 2008, 20:44 PM

okay I watched a few of the 1.01 Rift reps. I have a few questions

Game 1

• vs Panander0's Nod
• I have no idea what he was doing. None. T4 on Rift without expanding. You did say it was not traditional Nod play and boy you were right.
• I did pick up a few things eco and expansion wise which was what I was looking for. You expand quickly and with little support initially. It works though.

Game 2

• re vs Panander
• I noticed your early harass is sometimes pits and sometimes apc/rocket squads. Is that situational or was it keyed on something he did?
• In this match up anyway you tech up really slowly. Again is that situational or dependent upon your opponents plan?

Game 3

• vs Training^
• a much more competitive game irregardless of anything else
• this match was vs GDI and your expansion went south versus towards the middle. Same old question is that situational or was it keyed off of something. It seemed really early to be situational so I assume it is a faction thing.
• you mentioned earlier about firehawks vs GDI or ST. In this match you used them once he went Orca's (when you could afford to get them up.) Is that what you meant earlier when you said they were way more important in this match up than the others?

You do a really nice job of initially scouting with your infantry.....among lots of other things. Good stuff keep it coming!

Posted by: methuselah Dec 23 2008, 03:19 AM

okay be gentle. This is my second ZOCOM match in 1.02 and it was my first game that night which translates in my world to no warm up, no time to beat the rust off.

translation I was not ready for what I got.

it's on Dustbowl he was MoK, I was ZOCOM. He skipped the spikes and went right to bikes (but just a few) and because I was slow in discovering it I lost a harv (inexcusable I know.) Fortunately I had the spikes so I fought through it and then we settle into a ridiculously long marathon (sorry!) Anyway please be gentle this was one of those where I was like "okay what now moron?" talking to myself because I could not figure out how to breach the billion upgraded venoms and avatar armada he had constructed. Luckily he came to me, failed, and when I countered could not stop it. Things I know without really thinking about it

• initial scout was too slow I should have walked an infantry squad into his base and seen the bikes
• I lost 43,871,098 harvesters to his stanks. How about just a little stealth detection?
• I needed to try and divide his forces a little and really never could. He was the aggressor for the most part so I'm shocked I won.

I did remember you using some firehawks as aa when I watched those reps earlier today so I did that. I hope they were reasonably effective I have no idea




Attached File(s)

	12_22_for_vOddy.KWReplay
	Size: 735.64k
	Number of downloads: 43
	Player Name	Side	Team
	methuselah*		1
	Therm0		2

Posted by: vOddy Dec 23 2008, 12:58 PM

I will be able to watch the rep in 4 days. And I teched late because it was on Rift. If it's going good for me early game on rift, I usually tech really late (Not vs all factions)

If it had been on Decision I would not have played like that

Edit: Vs Nod late game, you should have a shitload of pitbulls. I always spam pitbulls vs Nod. Have a predator army that is as big as his scorpion army, (If he's going for laser scorps) and when you have that, you get pitbulls instead.

Edit: vs Training^:

Yes, firehawks are important vs GDI because GDI vs GDI comes down to who has the most money (you can bomb refineries with firehawks) and because firehawks own the shit out of orcas. It's hard to get them on rift, though, because it's such an open map.

Another edit (): Vs GDI and Nod you need to scout >>>> ALL THE TIME <<<<. If they send out orcas or stealth tanks without you being prepared it is over.

Posted by: methuselah Dec 23 2008, 22:24 PM

two questions at this point

• do you upgrade the pits or leave them basic when you need them in larger quantities? In other words is it worth the money to have more pits to detect stanks or is it better to have more effective pits so they do more damage?
• any guidance inclusive of reps on HH/ZR combo micro would be good. The combo is very effective but very expensive and I often waste them unnecessarily. I get the concept of kiting them but what I understand conceptually I often f up in practice

Thanks!

Posted by: methuselah Dec 24 2008, 15:44 PM

Scenario questions one of which has nothing to do with ZOCOM mentoring

1. I played atdsutm last night on TD. He was Nod, I was practicing my ZOCOM. Everything went fine until mid game when he took his southern expansion and I took mine. He put up a couple of obelisks and build a half a dozen specters and just rained on my expansion field killing harvester after harvester. I tried orca's, I had the emp control center so I'd drop that on him regularly and it slowed the rain down but inevitably it started again because I could not break it. How do you answer for no arti in that scenario?
2. I played a guy last night twice in a row that was Traveler. At this point I was bummed from the above match and went back to Nod to make myself feel better. Well that did not work. This guy did the same thing both matches including the second game on Rift. How he got a hex out off of one field on Rift I'll never know but he did. What he did was defend his starting field just enough to keep me from making much of an early push and then teched all the way up to a prodigy and a hex and some corrupters. I tried everything and could never stop it. I build a trillion bikes and emp'd my ass off. I built a Redeemer, I expanded my ass off and I could never stop it. And to make matters worse he talked the whole time. "you should do this" or "have fun with this" or if I missed something and said "what?" he'd say "one sec let me tell you once I've beaten your ass"

I hate smack talkers almost as much as I hate disconnecters. He backed it up though it took him forever but he beat me twice. I just had no answers for the prodigy/hex/corrupter/phase field combo as Nod.

argh!

Posted by: vOddy Dec 24 2008, 16:46 PM

Mortar only costs 1000 with 1.2, that's not even 2 pitbulls. If you have a bunch of pitbulls, get mortars. Even in 1.1, they only cost 2000, and that's 3 pitbulls. So bottom line is, if you have a bunch of pitbulls (even if you stopped producing pitbulls) get mortars.

Posted by: vOddy Dec 24 2008, 16:50 PM

Don't let Nod bunker up. If he goes scorpion spam, you get lots of predators. If he does not spam scorpions, you mass pitbulls and attack at all places at the same time and kill his harvesters while building up your own economy and teching, once you have a big bunch of harvesters.

Attack everywhere with apcs filled with rocket guys (or AP Apcs with riflemen in them if he's going inf spam) and pitbulls.

In the late game, you should have pitbulls running around everywhere for stealth tank pwnage. If you do this, he won't be able to expand to your tiberium field, either, and the problem won't be created in the first place. Don't attack him head on, because his turtle shell will knock you off. Use ceramic stratofighters (upgraded firhehawks) to bomb his stuff. Try to find a chemical plant. If he uses tiberium vein detonation on your main and catalyst missile on your exp, it's over. You need to send out your first 2 firehawks (takes 2 to bomb it if it has laser fence) to bomb the chem plant.

Keep harassing with firehawks and pitbulls, and don't forget to have a marv with zone raiders in it.

If you're Nod, and you are playing against scrin, just use EMP buggies, stealth tank harassment, specters, avatars, redeemer, w/e.

Posted by: vOddy Jan 1 2009, 13:29 PM

A rift game vs Traveler 59. The hammerheads were because I knew he would either try to tech fast or use ravagers / cultists / shock troopers to own my harvesters. Either way, hammerheads are useful.

	VsT59Mentor.KWReplay
	Size: 182.17k
	Number of downloads: 52
	Player Name	Side	Team
	vOddy*		1
	---		2

Posted by: vOddy Jan 1 2009, 16:32 PM

Zocom vs GDI on Rift

	ZocomMentoring.KWReplay
	Size: 276.89k
	Number of downloads: 61
	Player Name	Side	Team
	Someone top 15		1
	RPWvOddy*		2

Posted by: -KiLLZoNe- Jan 1 2009, 23:16 PM

thanks for posting VoDDy theses will help my GDI no doubt.

Posted by: Demonchief Jan 9 2009, 02:28 AM

Yea some of us non-mentees are learning fast from this

Posted by: -KiLLZoNe- Jan 10 2009, 23:42 PM

yup keep them coming VoDDy please we need ppl like you.

Posted by: methuselah Jan 11 2009, 19:22 PM

That is why we do it like we do it

Posted by: atdsutm Jan 12 2009, 06:34 AM

and some enemies are also learning fast


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: vOddy Jan 12 2009, 08:14 AM

Here's a game on Tower. Nod usually owns everything on Tower, and I did some obvious mistakes in the beginning. (I KNEW he was gonna shadow rush. I should have put the power plant at the back of my base to buy time to place the factory)

	Zocom_Vs_Nod_Tower.KWReplay
	Size: 657.6k
	Number of downloads: 51
	Player Name	Side	Team
	kOartist		1
	vOddy*		2

Posted by: MrPaul Jan 14 2009, 15:30 PM

This is slightly off-topic but I'm hoping Methuselah will let it slide..

I just wanted to say thanks to v0ddy for giving me some pointers when we kept being automatched earlier today! I'm not sure how you do the things you do, but hopefully comparing your BO with mine in our replays will show me where I can still make some improvements!

All in all, these were the only fives game I ever enjoyed losing!
(and who cares about a five-game losing streaks anyways )

If you were wondering why I kept trying to fast tech: I knew I wouldn't stand a chance if I was at the same tier as you, but I'll try to stay at tier 2.5 for a while, if I'm not up against the king of micro!

Until our next automatch!

PS: I'm hella jealous of you Methuselah!

Posted by: methuselah Jan 14 2009, 17:56 PM

I've been practicing for you my young friend



Don't be jealous just keep coming back here! vOddy's awesome and this is open for that very reason

Posted by: RCdelta620 Jan 26 2009, 21:44 PM

I've picked up ZOCOM recently so this is really helping me too. I was beating a top 150 when my comp decided to crash.

Posted by: methuselah Jan 27 2009, 17:09 PM

That sucks! On a slightly similar note (I did say slightly) Kane's Wrath has been giving me APPCRASH errors (crash to desktop) a lot lately. Normally if I can get in a lobby I'm safe, it normally happens right after log in as I transition to a lobby. Twice in the last week as soon as an automatch match loaded I got an APPCRASH.

Bye bye lots of elo points

Posted by: methuselah Jan 28 2009, 01:03 AM

Interesting game. His ST rush went well and slowed you down but he did not really follow that up. Did he build a single T1 vehicle? Your late game was nothing short of amazing when he moved his MCV up to the tower with some AA and a couple of Obelisks up and Specters doing their thing I thought you were doomed.

Commando and MARV/Grenadier EMP FTW!

Posted by: vOddy Jan 28 2009, 17:57 PM

I watched the game from his perspective later. Man, he was floating on 11 thousand while I was on " insufficient funds ". Sorry, I shouldn't have uploaded it. It seemed like a cool game from my angle, but the truth is, he was probably fucking around big time. He could have beaten me easily if he had just done something easy, like avatar spam from his crazy eco or whatever.

He probably wasn't even playing seriously. Should have watched it from his perspective before I uploaded it.

Anyway, I have something else to say,
I apologize for my lack of activity lately. I've been playing the Dawn Of War II Beta (Got in one week earlier than public because I have Dawn Of War: Soulstorm, hehe)
and I've been playing 2on2 and 3on3 on WarCraft III With my friends ( We got to rank 20 in 3on3, hehe)

But yeah, now I'm planning to start playing KW again.

Posted by: methuselah Jan 29 2009, 23:07 PM

No worries my friend we're glad to have you back

Posted by: vOddy Feb 6 2009, 16:40 PM

Vs top 100 Reaper 17. I didn't notice my tank army was under attack, because I was listening to music (too) loudly.

Other than that I guess I played decent, so you can learn from it a bit. Just keep in mind I did mistakes, I was kind of sloppy... but I hope you get the point, despite my mistakes.

	17mentor.KWReplay
	Size: 475.3k
	Number of downloads: 54
	Player Name	Side	Team
	eSkilLvOddy*		1
	Top 100		2

Posted by: vOddy Mar 5 2009, 19:30 PM

Btw, vs Reaper and vScrin (especially Reaper), if you're vGDI or Zocom, ALWAYS go emp grenadiers before you tech. Most of the time it's also stupid to go for 2 war factories... The good thing about going infantry is that if he surprises you with stormriders (common for scrin to do, to pick off harvesters) you will have missile squads that can fight his air. Just remember to keep some anti inf for the buzzers.

Posted by: methuselah Mar 12 2009, 15:15 PM

I need to start using emp Grenadier's just as a normal part of the game so I am used to them. Right now all I do is go "oh $hit" when I hear an epic deploy and race to them otherwise I never use them. Someone from around here went to the quickly and came with a couple of squads and a few tanks and whipped me simply because they emp'd what little force I could muster and picked it off and then killed my eco.

Shame on me for not doing a better job scouting but they were very effective against normal units as well.

Posted by: vOddy Mar 13 2009, 21:54 PM

Yes, EMP grenadiers vs epic units are a MUST for Zocom. No orcas that can snipe it, no juggernauts, no railguns, no nothing... except EMP grenadiers.

Posted by: vOddy Mar 18 2009, 20:50 PM

This is an anti T59 tactic only, that only works good on Small Town USA.

	MentorinG_.KWReplay
	Size: 189.98k
	Number of downloads: 74
	Player Name	Side	Team
	TgteamLOA5000		1
	eSkilLvOddy*		2

I went random and became GDI, but I could have played exactly the same if I had been Zocom ( except disintigrator rushes are a larger risk because Zocom harvesters suck, but that's the only thing, but it's possible to have a watch tower ready and cancel it if disintigrators don't come anyway )

This guy was rank 26, but had NO CLUE how to counter this tactic. You're supposed to go mass gunwalkers vs this tactic, but yeah, the point is, this shows you how to do this tactic. Even if you don't destroy harvesters with this tactic, you force him to screw up his economy and keep him at his toes before you can finish him off.

	MentorinG_.KWReplay
	Size: 189.98k
	Number of downloads: 74
	Player Name	Side	Team
	TgteamLOA5000		1
	eSkilLvOddy*		2

Posted by: vOddy Apr 5 2009, 12:10 PM

Vs R17.

He didn't play this best, though. I usually lose to his early push, he kind of screwed up this game.

	DecMen.KWReplay
	Size: 855.95k
	Number of downloads: 55
	Player Name	Side	Team
	eSkilLvOddy*		1
	AoeNiaN		2

Posted by: methuselah Apr 6 2009, 15:38 PM

Thanks vOddy. I'm curious about this one from two perspectives. He's a pretty good player and on the occasions when I draw Scrin (I play some random) I struggle to be aggressive early so I'm interested in whatever his initial push is no matter how much he screwed it up and what you did to squash it.

Posted by: vOddy May 1 2009, 11:10 AM

Devourer Tanks and shardwalkers with stasis shield on the enemy is an extremely powerful and relatively fast attack. It's good with vScrin too, but not AS good, because you need more gunwalkers for air / infantry, and that means less Devourer Tanks.

Posted by: vOddy Jun 7 2009, 13:42 PM

Here's a game I just played. Vs rank 47 Nod, not the best game, but it shows what to do when you sout a bikerush. This bikerush turned out to be all in (lol) and he left when it failed.
Watch if you want to / feel like it

	Mentor_1.KWReplay
	Size: 152.75k
	Number of downloads: 46
	Player Name	Side	Team
	eSkilLvOddy*		1
	FiNaL[FiRe		2

Posted by: vOddy Jun 7 2009, 14:17 PM

This game shows what to do vs vGDI all in on tower. Don't forget the pitbull to scout orcas / dual WF's.

	Mentor_2.KWReplay
	Size: 332.78k
	Number of downloads: 47
	Player Name	Side	Team
	nomatch)		1
	eSkilLvOddy*		2

Posted by: vOddy Jul 27 2009, 18:46 PM

I will upload a replay that demonstrates when to use hammerheads vs Nod soon. Stay tuned.

Posted by: methuselah Jul 29 2009, 23:23 PM

Will do thanks!

Posted by: vOddy Aug 3 2009, 17:43 PM

Raiderheads, and hammerheads in general, are very situational units vs Nod. In my experience, they are best used when the Nod opponent does not turtle, but instead, masses scorpion tanks.

	Raiderhead.KWReplay
	Size: 523.25k
	Number of downloads: 36
	Player Name	Side	Team
	ZarAte*sLovEr*		1
	eSkilLvOddy*		2

Also, you need pitbulls to spot the stealth tanks, or your hammerheads will die.

Posted by: vOddy Oct 15 2009, 17:30 PM

I don't know if you still play Zocom, Methuselah, but because I have switched back to Kane's Wrath and Tiberium Wars (from StarCraft) I might as well start mentoring you again (If you're interested)

If you don't play Zocom, I can also mentor other factions.

Posted by: ItWasntMe Oct 16 2009, 12:05 PM

nice to see u are back voddy =)

i hope meth also is active and wants to train harder.

Posted by: theguns Dec 29 2009, 02:38 AM

Hey vOddy. If methuselah can't continue or doesn't want too. would you mind helping me out? i'm hurting as ZOCOM GDI AND STEEL TALONS:( basically i need help with all GDI and scrin for that matter. Nod is my only slightly good faction. thx

Posted by: vOddy Dec 31 2009, 15:29 PM

I guess I can answer you questions, but I only play C&C3 when there are tournaments I am interested in. Other than that I just play StarCraft these days, so I won't be able to upload any replays on a regular basis.

Posted by: theguns Jan 10 2010, 18:10 PM

ok i would just like to learn gdi and nod. all subfactions. and harrassment and rush would help:)